Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 08, 2007 4:45 pm Hi everyone,
First time poster, long time reader. Let me say what a brilliant forum this is. Thanks to everyone for all their well thought out advice, it is fantastic!! I am personally commencing on the road of a massive project (well massive to me), whereby I have gone out on a limb and purchased an old four-bedroom house in the perfect location in Newport, Victoria, some 10 minutes from the Melbounrne CBD. The land itself overlooks Newport Lakes, is a corner block of about 620m2, and is completely surrounded by parkland, with lake and city views. Brilliant! Well, I bought it at the first ever auction I have ever attended, which was an experience. Was bidding against two developers who wanted to put units in place of the old house. My plan was also to demolish the house and build my new castle which I hope myself and the family will live in for the next 20 years or so. So now I am holding this land and am in a bind on how to proceed. Currently I have been evaluating the pros and cons of; a) Going through the architect route; b) Utlising a draftsman to pen my ideas and taking a builder along the way for the journey; c) Designing the house myself with an autocad style program and then taking it to a builder and going from there; or d) Some combination of the above, which may or may not involve me owner/building. Currently I am leaning towards doing the basic plans myself and then find a builder I can trust to take it from there and then manage him myself. In the meantime, I will rent out the old 4 bedroom house and claim the interest as a deduction on my taxes. This will give me time to bed down exactly what I want to do. I can then sell my existing house and use the proceeds to fund the dream. I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on any of the above if you have the time. Am also thinking of starting up a blog once I get into something meaningful, but will particpate in this (and other) threads up to and during this big step in my life. No home blog yet, but you can check out my World Cup 2006 one in the meantime at http://aussieworldcup.blogspot.com/ Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 3Aug 08, 2007 5:49 pm I was not too dissimilar from you when I first bought my land - 4 years ago. It had an old house on it too, on a perfect street etc. I also hope that my family spends 20 years or so in the newly built house.
I rented out the old one and kept waiting for the right time to build. The more I looked at custom build prices the more I thought I'd never build, as the construction costs have gone up right in front of my eyes. Then I found a project home design that from the floorplan point of view was 90% of what I wanted to do anyway. They were flexible enough to add a study/rumpus downstairs and change the facade significantly, so I went down that road. So far so good. If you can afford it, there is no problem with designing it yourself and going with the private builder. But to build to the finish that I wanted with a private builder would cost no less than 15k per square which is way more than what I am paying at the moment. Currently Building in Bayside (Brighton East) Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 4Aug 08, 2007 6:21 pm Hi Gavone - Sounds like a you have a great block. You seem set on doing your own design. We are building our own design because we want to live for the next 20 years there, actually after we finished building I'm going to need a rest for at least that . We have done the moving around thing and now want to stay put, because of this we wanted a house design that is going to work for us now and into the future we searched high and low at all the different house plans builders had in there range and nothing seemed to be close enough to what we wanted.
We put a list together of what we wanted, where each room would go (zones), basic plan design and front facade pictures we liked. From there we went out to find a builder. We found a couple of builders and then did checks on them by having a chat to people who where in the process or finished building with them, we didnt ask the builder directly for references we simply asked if they had any houses under construction or just finished and then poped into the owners. In the end we picked one, their sales person is also a draftsman so we did all the drawings with him off our plans, we didnt have expensive architects costs which saved us heaps. I'm happy with our choice, good luck with yours. Hope this helps Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 5Aug 08, 2007 7:51 pm Gavone,
We have a lot in common. I bought a block of land not too far from the city with an established house that will be knocked down to build our dream home. I will be doing most of the design and in fact now have a fairly complete custom design. My block is also on a corner, is 710 m2 and has views of Parramatta River, the stadium and the Blue Mountains. It’s a difficult decision whether to use an architect, building designer, building draftsman or do it your self. I’m still tossing up which way to go. Archicentre (the residential building arm of the Royal Australian Institute of Architects) runs monthly seminars, which are interesting and will also provide a New House Design Report for $2150. The report includes a concept design complete with floorplans, perspectives, probable costs and potential council issues. I got one just to see what someone else could come up with. I also bought the prooperty at the first auction I registered for. I’ve been to other auctions, but only as a spectator. I’ve put my design together using Punch Home Design Suite. There are other design packages like Better Homes and Garden’s offering and the current favourite – My Virtual Home, which is free and well represented in this forum. One of the problems with architects is that they sometimes take control of the design and you sometimes wonder if the design that you are paying for is for you or them. I would be reluctant to let an architect loose on a design. Maybe get them to present some ideas and start down the process, but don’t commit for anything more than the next step. If it’s not going the way you like then just stop there. If you use a builder to document the design, make sure you don’t let them make the DA submission. The reason is that they will usually own the drawings and you can only build with them. This removes competition. Sure, get the detailed design done by the builder, but don’t let them submit the DA unless it’s clear you own the drawings and can go out to competitive tender. I really hate it when you talk to builders and there’s no competition. Oh, the design you have is very difficult and will cost more, you block is unusual and will cost you more. Any excuse to push up the price. With competition to don’t hear any of the whinging, just a price to build exactly what you want. Have many more thoughts, which we can discuss in due course. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 6Aug 09, 2007 9:54 am Thanks for the feedback guys.
I have actually sent away for that "My Virtual Home" software and plan to put some of my ideas down in software form over the next month or so ( I might even post some of my designs on here if I work out how to do it ). In the meantime, I will be having a chat with a few builders that I know (I am lucky enough to know a couple through sporting club connections) to get some idea as to a rough price of my plans as I progress them. Hey Casa, I agree with your sentiments on architects. Although the one I had in mind I have worked with before on a cricket club project and I find him very good, it is just the price. I cannot bring myself to part with $65k for something I know I could do just as well (if not better). Once I am set on what we want, I have decided to take them to a draftsman who has been recommended to me (again through my cricket club buddies) to get the plans approved through Council (only need a building permit, no planning permit required, yippee!!). I will then have something that the builders can quote on. Will probably get just the three quotes and if they are all in the ballpark, will go with the one who I feel most comfortable with. These damn interest rate hikes are a problem though!! Need to go and see my boss for a payrise!!!!! No home blog yet, but you can check out my World Cup 2006 one in the meantime at http://aussieworldcup.blogspot.com/ Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 7Aug 09, 2007 12:26 pm Gavone,
$65K for an architect That's way too much! And as you've said, you can do just as well if not better. Perhaps the best approach is to do it yourself and get an architect to check it for design quality and offer some suggestions for improvement. Just don’t let them wrench control out of your hands! Interest rate hikes are not as bad as you think. Although your mortgage goes up, they are designed to keep inflation at bay, so your building costs are contained. In fact, with building starts the lowest in several decades, prices are probably dropping (you may not see it as project builders are reluctant to drop prices, but you'll notice that the inclusions list keeps growing). I personally prefer interest rate increases prior to building as it reduces demand therefore lowers prices. The mortgage effect stretches over many years, therefore it’s more important to consider where rates will be over the next decade. However, current interest rates affect immediate property and building costs. Ideally you want higher interests rate while you’re buying land and building a house then the lowest possible interest rates once you’ve got things locked in. Expect at least another rate rise this year. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 8Aug 09, 2007 2:10 pm Case, the architect was looking for 13% to basically take the entire project through to completion. Agree with your comments about him, and as I said, I am likely to just get a draftsman I trust to go through and make sure I have thought of everything I need to.
On interest rates, your anaylsis is correct re:inflation and the effects on the industry. I guess from my perspective though, I really want to pay the loan off as quickly as possible, and am looking at about a 10 year time frame on which I want to do that. I guess the short term impacts will flow through into the contruction costs, but at the end of the day, I cannot see it really saving me any serious $'s. As such, any rate increases have a direct impact on my hip pocket as I try to make some serious headway into the mortgage. Also agree that we will see another couple of hikes in the short-term... but not before the election!! No home blog yet, but you can check out my World Cup 2006 one in the meantime at http://aussieworldcup.blogspot.com/ Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 9Aug 11, 2007 9:23 am Gavone,
I've been thinking more about your situation. As I've said, $65k for an architect is way too much. I have several that will do the job for $20k to $30k. Of course, you have to be careful and ask if this is for everything or does he get, at you cost, structural engineers, basix evaluators, etc. One of the problem I see is that if you are going for a $500k house and then give the architect 13% (65k), this only leaves 435k to build the house (even less when you consider the various consultants). $500k will get you a great house, while $435k will get you something much lesser, which could negate and benefit of a better design. Also, as I've said, sometimes architects take control of the project and tell you what you want rather than ask you what you want. Once this happens, it's time to pull the plug. I think architects shine when it comes to putting together a concept design. Don't go in cold, put together something you like and ask the architect how to improve it. Don’t commit for anything more than the concept design, but get the pricing for everything. If you're happy with the way things have progressed with the concept design, go to the next step and take it to DA. This should only cost about $10 to $15k for the architect. Also, particularly if the design is based heavily on your input, try to get the copyright assigned to you. Not sure why, but it just feels more comfortable to me. When it comes to the construction certificate drawing, I think these are best and most economically done by your chosen builder. When it comes to contract administration, I see no value in this. If there are problems in the building, hire the architect (or another architect) on an hourly basis if needed. Get a building inspector to provide a report before each progress payment and everything should be fine. It doesn't hurt to keep well across everything and visit your building site a couple of times a week. I’m planning every Wednesday and Saturday morning while everyone is there and Sundays when no one is there. Get a Green Card (a four hour course) and ask to be inducted onto the worksite. This way you can walk on site and check things at your leisure. It also helps to take heaps of photographs so you know where all the services are located for future reference. Enough rambling, I'm off to finalise my concept design. So much to do, so little time. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 10Aug 16, 2007 10:28 am Casa, thanks for the advice.
For the record, the architect I had spoken to was charging 20% for the Schematic Design, 10% for Design Development, 40% for Contract Documentation and 30% for Contract Administration. I am currently dabbling with the "My Vitrual Home" software and have found it quite limited as you cannot do any landscaping (given the design I am thinking of is incorpoating a pool area). Howeve, it has allowed me to develop the start of a floor plan that I hope to flesh out a little more over the next couple of weeks in a more robust package. Am currently tossing up between the BHG and Punch software, but leaning towards the former. Once I have bedded down exactly what we are after, the decision is either a) get architect to draft formal plans and pick up things I may have forgotten, b) refer a) except use a draftsman, or c) go straight to builder. I have no idea about this next step, however, as I play cricket with a couple of buidlers, I think I may go through option c) with them and see what they think. No home blog yet, but you can check out my World Cup 2006 one in the meantime at http://aussieworldcup.blogspot.com/ Re: Novice, but rapidly upskilling!! 11Aug 17, 2007 11:59 pm Gavone,
Firstly congratulations on taking your first step into the exciting world of constructing your dream home! I am in a similar situation where we purchased a clear block a few years ago close to the CBD with the potential for stunning city views. We are now well on the way start the building process after spending 12 months in the design phase. When we first embarked on the design journey, we started working with a draftsman since I had some very clear ideas about the style, size, elevations, layout, finishing and fixtures of the home. I would say he did a good job of taking my ideas and simply transposing them onto paper. After a few weeks of looking at the designs, I found the design was missing some creativity and depth and acknowledged that I simply could not bring this element into the design myself. Although I am not knocking draftsmen, I found his ability to think three dimensionally about my project was severely lacking. At that point we decided to pay him out and put the extra money down to get ourselves an architect. Although I consider myself to be fairly creative with ideas and to have reasonable taste, the architect was able to bring the flair that was missing from our core design and bring en element of prestige and modern liveability into it. A good architect will take the time to listen to your wants and needs, understand you want to live in it. They can provide you with considerations and ideas to incorporate into the design to ensure sustainability and resellability down the track. The other value they bring is they should understand the different styles of homes (ie. Federation, Edwardian, Georgian, etc) and can advise you on the do's and don't of certain period homes (if that’s what you want to build). We were very happy with the experience as he took snippets of our ideas and turned them into something pretty special. I know I can say this because after living with my plans for 12 months, I still absolutely love it! Casa2 is absolutely right about pushy architects who want to run the show, if you find you are having that experience with your architect, ditch him fast! Your architect's job is to understand how you would like to live in your home, and make the best possible use of space, design, style, colour, etc to achieve that. I also agree that you don't need to spent $65k or 13% of the project costs before you dif your first hole in the ground. Our project is worth around $750k and the cost of full architectural drawings, engineering, kitchen/bathroom design, energy report and 30 page specification came to just over $18k on a fixed price. Since I plan to oversee most elements of the construction myself, we agreed on an hourly rate if I want him to come out on site. After designing a custom home from scratch, a couple of tips I can recommend are: * Research, Research, Research! - Use the Internet and ask people/friends/enemies who have built a home to find out about particular materials you plan to use in your construction (ie floors, render) as well as appliances and services (ie. ovens, stoves, vacuum units) to see how they fair. * Build a detailed specification which includes fixtures, fittings, materials for every part of your house including internal and external works. List things like appliance models, colours (if possible) so as to reduce the possibility of your quotes being miles apart when you take them to builders. * Collect lots of photo's or scan brochures to create a 'visual specification' to show your builder what look you want to achieve. One of the biggest problems with building custom homes is getting the builder to see into your vision. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words! * Look at the homes around your property carefully - check for set-backs to ensure there are no potential view blockages, any walls/fences built on boundaries and think about how you home will sit in between theirs and how it will look in the street. * Check for any restrictions placed on your property by the city council or design guidelines set out by the original developers of the land (if they still apply). In particular look for height restrictions, building envelopes, open space agreements (trees, landscaping) that may apply as these can make a big bearing on the style of house you will build. You can spend a long time in the design phase (we certainly did!) looking at your plans night after night to thing about every detail. It is important to get to a point of understanding what you want and documenting as much as you can. It's an exciting time, enjoy it! 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