Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Feb 10, 2010 8:04 am We are going to build a 40SQ house in NSW. We got a tender from a builder last week and were shocked by the extra cost: 1. Basic Price: 237,480 2. Fixed Site cost and connections included in this tender: 12,850 - Our land has got 0.8m drop from side to side. It's quite flat. I think the site cost is reasonable 3. Provisional allowances: 21,100 (????????????????????????) 3.1 80 lineal metres of 400mm diameter concrete piers @ $75.00 per lineal metre: 6,000 3.2 Allow 28m2 of deep edge beam to brickwork @$450m2: 12,600 3.3 Allow to remove excess soil after deep edge beam:2,500 4. Client Variations: 81,190 4.1 Provide 2*1.5m long precast concrete steps:450 4.2 Render: $28,400 4.3 Provide 870 door to family/rumpus: 480 4.4 Provide 870 door to study: 480 4.5 Alfresco living, aluminium Bifold doors, gallery kitchen, island bench, clear span beam(excludes concrete slab): 23,415 4.6 Provide air condition (6.3HP) with 3 zones and 3 phase power: 12,210 4.7 Provide 2.7m floor to ceiling heigh: 5,410 4.8 Provide 3rd garage: 7,980 4.9 Ducted Vacuum: 2,365 5. Provide gas appliance package: 8,270 5.1 Provide gas connection fee: 860 (?? I thought it had already been included in item 2?????) 5.2 Provide Smeg Classic steel dishwasher: 1,420 5.3 Provide Upgrade Package: 5,990 (including kitchen & bathroom & Safety etc) 6. Workcover and occupational health and safety requirement: scaffolding: 5,400 (!!!!) 7. BASIX: Provide a 5000 litre above ground rainwater tank: 10,400 8. Environmental requirement: $1,650 (????) 8.1 Provide Shadow Diagram: 180 8.2 Provide nathers report: 410 8.3 Provide site analysis: 180 8.4 Provide statement of environmental effects: 220 8.5 Provide and maintain all weather access: 660 Below items are estimated only: 9. Downlights and powerpoints & electrician: 25,000 (estimate) 10. Flooring: $25,000 (estimate) 11. Driveway: $12,000 (estimate) around 150sqm in total @ $80/sqm 12. Decking: 5,000 (estimate) for Alfresco area 13. Other council requirement (footpath, stormwater dranage & no straight wall over 10 m ) $15000 -------------------------------------------------------------- In total: 435,320 Price not including demolition,curtain, landscaping etc. I do not understand why eventually, we have to spend $200k over the basic price. As you can see, there are not many upgrades at all. The costs of item 3 & 6 are totally out of our expectation. Our land is quite flat. That's the main reason why we bought it as we do not want a "surprise" for site cost. But now, if you add item 2 and 3, it's almost $34k for the site cost. Item 6 is a rip off item too. Can anybody in NSW tell me that my tender is normal or not? I am happy with the facade and ok with the floor plan. But I'm now extremely unhappy about the tender. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 2Feb 10, 2010 8:16 am Your block may be fairly flat but does it contain fill at all? The reason I ask is that when they do piering and drop edge beams it normally means there is fill in the block. We had to have a huge amount of piering and originally was also needing drop edge beams but we ended up going with a retaining wall and normal slab. Sorry to say that nothing there looks like highway robbery - other then the normal mark ups for the electrical / flooring / driveway. A lot of times you can save money doing these things after the build - although the electrical is handy to be done during the build as it can save a lot of hassle. Not sure about the scaffolding as we built a single storey home. When we were looking for a builder we always added at least $100-$150k on top of the base price before we got too carried away - knew from previous experience that things always added up really quickly. Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 3Feb 10, 2010 8:49 am Hey Renee - I've found a few things I'd be questioning: reneegogh 4.6 Provide air condition (6.3HP) with 3 zones and 3 phase power: 12,210 4.7 Provide 2.7m floor to ceiling heigh: 5,410 Quote: 5. Provide gas appliance package: 8,270 Quote: 5.2 Provide Smeg Classic steel dishwasher: 1,420 Quote: 5.3 Provide Upgrade Package: 5,990 (including kitchen & bathroom & Safety etc) Quote: 7. BASIX: Provide a 5000 litre above ground rainwater tank: 10,400 Quote: 8. Environmental requirement: $1,650 (????) Quote: 8.1 Provide Shadow Diagram: 180 8.2 Provide nathers report: 410 8.3 Provide site analysis: 180 8.4 Provide statement of environmental effects: 220 8.5 Provide and maintain all weather access: 660 I'm really surprised that they don't include this in a fixed site cost. Quote: 9. Downlights and powerpoints & electrician: 25,000 (estimate) Quote: 13. Other council requirement (footpath, stormwater dranage & no straight wall over 10 m ) $15000 Who is this quote from? It certainly doesn't sound like Wisdom since they usually do fixed price site costs, with a 0.8m fall you might need drop edge beams - but I don't think they are expensive as you've been quoted. It seems like you've just been quoted the price for the shell - you'd never be able to finish a 40sq house for less than $300k. We're building a 43sq house for about $440k with top of the line caesarstone and feature sandstone. If we went a bit more simple - we would have spent about $425k. Oh - I also forgot to ask - why render all over? It would be cheaper to render just the front and then use Moroka for the sides and rear. After 4 years - we're in! Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 4Feb 10, 2010 9:06 am reneegogh 1. Basic Price: 237,480 2. Fixed Site cost and connections included in this tender: 12,850 3. Provisional allowances: 21,100 (????????????????????????) 4. Client Variations: 81,190 5. Provide gas appliance package: 8,270 6. Workcover and occupational health and safety requirement: scaffolding: 5,400 (!!!!) 7. BASIX: 10,400 8. Environmental requirement: $1,650 (????) Below items are estimated only: 9. Downlights and powerpoints & electrician: 25,000 (estimate) 10. Flooring: $25,000 (estimate) 11. Driveway: $12,000 (estimate) around 150sqm in total @ $80/sqm 12. Decking: 5,000 (estimate) for Alfresco area 13. Other council requirement (footpath, stormwater dranage & no straight wall over 10 m ) $15000 In total: 435,320 Price not including demolition,curtain, landscaping etc. reneegogh, Some items are ridiculous. Here's my comments on each: 1) Base price. There should be no surprises here. 2) Site cost. This figure sounds resonable for ALL site costs 3) These costs are really site costs and splitting it out doesn't make it cheaper! 4) These are all variations initiated by yourself. They're itemised so you can do a sanity check on them and perhaps remove any that don't offer good value for money. 5) Is the gas upgrade package worth it? 6) Scaffolding. This must be in the base price since you cannot build youor house without scaffolding. I woudl consider getting the builder prosecuted for misleading advertising. 7) You can get a 5,000 litre water tank for a lot less than $10,000. Do a web search. Perhaps this is best organised and paid for by yourself. 8 ) For item 8, tell them you don't want any of them. If they say they are mandatory then tell them it's part of the base price! 9) $25,000 for additonal lighting and power points. I would want the additonal items itemised and check the prices. What did the base price house have - one power point and two lights! 10) $25,000 for flooring sounds about right, but is dependant on whether it's timber (~$150/m2), tiles (~$100/m2) or carpet (~$50/m2). These figures are highly variable depending on quality of flooring. I would get them priced independantly and see if the builder is giving you a fair deal. 11) Driveway cost sounds about right. 12) Decking - I have no idea about this cost. 13) I would check these both for whether you need them and if the price is fair. Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 5Feb 10, 2010 9:45 am stonecutter1309 Hey Renee - I've found a few things I'd be questioning: reneegogh 4.6 Provide air condition (6.3HP) with 3 zones and 3 phase power: 12,210 --Hi Stonecutter1309, thanks for the advice! I'm seriously thinking of gettinga a/c motor unit afterwards. Quote: 5. Provide gas appliance package: 8,270 --It includes the upgrades in item 5.3 Quote: 5.2 Provide Smeg Classic steel dishwasher: 1,420 -- Good idea!!! Quote: 5.3 Provide Upgrade Package: 5,990 (including kitchen & bathroom & Safety etc) --No, it includes no kitchen appliances. I think it's a bit over priced but it includes alarm system etc so I think it's useful. Quote: 7. BASIX: Provide a 5000 litre above ground rainwater tank: 10,400 --I know!!! The builder charges $9400 for a 3000L above ground, which is too small for us. And they won't allow us to do it ourselves (by hiring a licensed plumber). Quote: 8. Environmental requirement: $1,650 (????) --No, we are not in any of the zones. I have no idea what they are trying to do. Quote: 8.1 Provide Shadow Diagram: 180 8.2 Provide nathers report: 410 8.3 Provide site analysis: 180 8.4 Provide statement of environmental effects: 220 8.5 Provide and maintain all weather access: 660 I'm really surprised that they don't include this in a fixed site cost. --Me 2 Quote: 9. Downlights and powerpoints & electrician: 25,000 (estimate) --We want inside and outside lighting. So it costs a bit. Quote: 13. Other council requirement (footpath, stormwater dranage & no straight wall over 10 m ) $15000 --Really? that's good. I'll have a look at Wisdom's design. Our council requires extra for stormwater dranage and it's costly too. Don't think they will let us off. Who is this quote from? It certainly doesn't sound like Wisdom since they usually do fixed price site costs, with a 0.8m fall you might need drop edge beams - but I don't think they are expensive as you've been quoted. --Provincial Homes. I think it is very expensive to charge these extras. It seems like you've just been quoted the price for the shell - you'd never be able to finish a 40sq house for less than $300k. We're building a 43sq house for about $440k with top of the line caesarstone and feature sandstone. If we went a bit more simple - we would have spent about $425k. --The total price is $435k and with no featuree sandstone or anything special. I did not dare to change any floor plan. Oh - I also forgot to ask - why render all over? It would be cheaper to render just the front and then use Moroka for the sides and rear. I might have to cancel the render part. Too costly Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 6Feb 10, 2010 9:58 am [/quote] reneegogh, Some items are ridiculous. Here's my comments on each: 1) Base price. There should be no surprises here. 2) Site cost. This figure sounds resonable for ALL site costs 3) These costs are really site costs and splitting it out doesn't make it cheaper! --Yeah! they split it so that each item looks not as expensive 4) These are all variations initiated by yourself. They're itemised so you can do a sanity check on them and perhaps remove any that don't offer good value for money. 5) Is the gas upgrade package worth it -It includes other upgrades. I'll read the items again to see if I need the upgrades or not 6) Scaffolding. This must be in the base price since you cannot build youor house without scaffolding. I woudl consider getting the builder prosecuted for misleading advertising. --Yes!!! This is totally totally misleading 7) You can get a 5,000 litre water tank for a lot less than $10,000. Do a web search. Perhaps this is best organised and paid for by yourself. --The builder won't allow it. I asked and they said no 8 ) For item 8, tell them you don't want any of them. If they say they are mandatory then tell them it's part of the base price! --They told me that this was the way they do pricing. Basic price doesn't include those items 9) $25,000 for additonal lighting and power points. I would want the additonal items itemised and check the prices. What did the base price house have - one power point and two lights! --One power point and one light only 10) $25,000 for flooring sounds about right, but is dependant on whether it's timber (~$150/m2), tiles (~$100/m2) or carpet (~$50/m2). These figures are highly variable depending on quality of flooring. I would get them priced independantly and see if the builder is giving you a fair deal. --No, this is the price that we do it ourselves. The builder will sure charge us higher 11) Driveway cost sounds about right. --Again, that's DIY price. 12) Decking - I have no idea about this cost. - $100/sqm for decking. The alfresco area is about 50sqm 13) I would check these both for whether you need them and if the price is fair. --Thanks!! I will think it over. Cheers, Casa[/quote] Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 8Feb 10, 2010 11:06 am we paid only $900 for the above ground water tank (5000l). stay away from this builder!!!!!!!!!!!! Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 9Feb 10, 2010 11:36 am sanjeeva we paid only $900 for the above ground water tank (5000l). stay away from this builder!!!!!!!!!!!! I know! It's not that expensive to buy a water tank. The builder can also get the rebate. I do not know why they think we will be happy to pay 10k for an above ground water tank. It's just too much. I'm thinking to change a builder. Thanks for your advice! Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 11Feb 10, 2010 11:46 am reneegogh sanjeeva we paid only $900 for the above ground water tank (5000l). stay away from this builder!!!!!!!!!!!! I know! It's not that expensive to buy a water tank. The builder can also get the rebate. I do not know why they think we will be happy to pay 10k for an above ground water tank. It's just too much. I'm thinking to change a builder. Thanks for your advice! I would give the builder one chance. Put together costs for things like the water tank and say if they can match it, you'll take it tothe next step. If they can't match it, then you'll go elsewhere. Or better still, get three builders to put together a package for you that meets all your requirements (who cares about the indiviaul price breadown) and go with the one that offers you best value. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 12Feb 10, 2010 11:52 am Im not sure if this is a Project Home Builder and dont shoot me, but to me it looks like a decent price for a quality built home. Like the above person said its only around $1100/sqm!!!!!!! All quotes I have been getting are atleast $1400/sqm or $350k for 25sq duplex (1side) (but by private builders not project homes). But ofcourse go back and go through each specification. DA approved Waiting on a few more Builder's quotes. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 13Feb 10, 2010 8:48 pm mandystoj Im not sure if this is a Project Home Builder and dont shoot me, but to me it looks like a decent price for a quality built home. Like the above person said its only around $1100/sqm!!!!!!! All quotes I have been getting are atleast $1400/sqm or $350k for 25sq duplex (1side) (but by private builders not project homes). But ofcourse go back and go through each specification. It's a project house. That's why I think it is too expensive. Should keep the price around $1000/sqm If it's a customer design house, $1500/sqm is the benchmark, I've been told. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 14Feb 10, 2010 9:05 pm dadandsue Its a 40 sq house for $435,320 Thats under $1100 per square with everything completed and upgraded. The FINAL TOTAL price is what matters Holy crap!! I'm glad I don't live in NSW then.... Our 35 square home, with a lot of upgrades, cost a total of $276,000 (plus another $20,000 or so for driveway, floor coverings and blinds, which we did ourselves). That was $75,000 over base price. Our electrical allowance was $3000 and we managed to blow that out to $6000 with lots of extra power points, downlights to most rooms and a few other extras. Site costs, including piering, came out to $12,000 - we had nearly 2m of fill and built very close to the sewer main. We have a single storey, not a double, but I'd only expect to pay an extra $20,000 to $50,000 for a 42-square double storey from the same builder. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 15Feb 10, 2010 11:50 pm When you look at the cost per m2, I would expect $1000/m2 to be a complete 2-storey house. We are about to get handover of our 45square 2-storey house so will try to comment where applicable of our costs vs your costs. We had external contractors provide items such as a/c and tanks/hstp (we're on acreage) ourselves as we saved 20% builder's margin on these items. However it all really depends on how amendable your builder is to allow you to do this and also if you have the time/patience to organise them yourself. 1. seems very reasonable, ours was $275k. Look carefully at their inclusions/exclusions to make sure you don't miss anything you really want or they don't double-up 2. appears reasonable 3. Provisional allowances - I would speak to the builder in regards to how confident they are that they've applied reasonable allowances on these ie: they haven't gone crazy and priced a whole heap of risk into them, but on the other hand, that they haven't kept them low and you're going to be stung with a big bill because they under-estimated. They're provisional sums because they are really unknowns at this point, but the builder should also be able to provide some confidence that their calculations have merit - it is their job as builders to have some idea on these things. Also tell them to keep you up to date on any costs relating to these when the time comes - you don't want a nasty suprise of cost blowouts. 3.2 I don't understand why edge beams are measured in m2? I'd expect them to be lineal metres or m3. Seems weird. 4.2 Render: the price quoted for our house was $18k. 4.5 Did they provide any breakdown of these costs or just lump them altogether? For ours, each change to the plan or additional item was costed individually, allowing us to make an informed cost decision for each item. For reference our alfresco area incl concrete floor with balcony over (all under roof) 6.7x3.8m was $18k 4.6 We did our a/c separate to the contract. We ended up with 3phase 9 zone Daikin for $14.5k. Original price was $12.7k for 6 zones before we added more zones, thermostat & control point. 4.9 Ducted Vacuum: 2,365 - these systems are really not that expensive. What does yours include? Consider what Hp they've provided you with...we upgraded ours to 2.75Hp with vacpan, bagless unit etc....maybe if possible consider having an external contractor do this too? 5. Provide gas appliance package - what type of appliances are these, it seems expensive? We provided our own appliances as we didn't like the builder's range, however this opens up risk by supplying items that cannot be insured under the builder's contract or insured independently. 5.2 Provide Smeg Classic steel dishwasher - I would purchase this after handover 5.3 Provide Upgrade Package - what does this actually include? Have they provided you with a breakdown? 6. Workcover and occupational health and safety requirement - wow! I'd be asking questions on this one. Our whole build only had $1,052 total for scaffolding and I know this is the correct value as the accountant told me yesterday when we were finalising the final account/provisional sums. 7. BASIX - wow again! We got a home sewage treatment plant & 32,500 litre concrete inground tank for $15k (through external contractor) plus $2,500 electricity/plumbing/drainage connections via the builder 8. Environmental requirement - I would have thought this was included in the original price, however we did have sediment control as a provisional sum and it was $436 9. Downlights and powerpoints & electrician: 25,000 (estimate) - holy mackerel! We purchased and supplied all our lights/ceilings fans which came to approx $3.5-4k and then paid the electrician direct to do all the additional light points, GPOs etc and that was $6k. And we had some big upgrades as we paid for surge protection to the house, had to have an additional internal switchboard and this also included connection to our tanks. I've got a breakdown of additional electrical prices (that we were given, but all electricians differ) in excel if you're interested in calculating yours? 10. Flooring: $25,000 (estimate) - probably not unreasonable overall when you take builder's margin into account. We're probably going to pay $20k including our balcony tiling, but we can get carpet for a really good price. 11. Driveway: $12,000 (estimate) around 150sqm in total @ $80/sqm - Seems reasonable when you take into account builder's margin. I got a quote from a concreter for exposed aggregate yesterday and he said he charges $60-$65/m2 plus site costs to form the driveway which is $90/hr. 13. Other council requirement (footpath, stormwater dranage & no straight wall over 10 m ) $15000 - what in the world is this for? Have they provided a breakdown? Sorry, the above was quite long-winded, but hopefully it helps put a few things in perspective? We're in Qld, but the prices shouldn't differ wildly from NSW. Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 16Feb 11, 2010 11:55 am poppamatic 6. Workcover and occupational health and safety requirement - wow! I'd be asking questions on this one. Our whole build only had $1,052 total for scaffolding and I know this is the correct value as the accountant told me yesterday when we were finalising the final account/provisional sums. The issue isn't if the price is right on this one. The issue is that it's not an upgrade or optional extra - it's essential to build the house! It is part of the base price, whether the builder says so or not. If you brought it to the attention od the ACCC, I suspect the buider would be prosecuted for false or misleading advertising. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 17Feb 11, 2010 9:21 pm dadandsue Its a 40 sq house for $435,320 Thats under $1100 per square with everything completed and upgraded. The FINAL TOTAL price is what matters See I was thinking the same thing, we are paying 1/2 that again in central qld ____________________________ Bec ____________________________ Building our Balinese Resort Inspired Dream Home Blog ~ http://hagarshouse.blogspot.com/ Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 18May 10, 2011 9:57 pm Hi All, Did any wisdom owners building an impression in the ponds or with a H-class slab have this provision in their tender? .. .... ..Due to saline affected soil as per DPXXXXXXX item 18.X provide the following * 32mPA concrete to piers and slab in lieu of standard. *premium plastic waterproof membrane under slab in lieu of standard. *provisional allowance for exposure grade brick upgrade. total cost $2,950. it seems very weird for the Ponds to have salty soil and for us to be required to upgrade bricks due to saline basically. We have done tenders with all major builders and none of which included the above soil charges. any one have this in their tender?? Re: Can anyone help me with the tender? 19May 11, 2011 7:48 am Hi reneegogh, If these are your own plans you could get a quote from other builders to see if this one is ballpark or not. If a project builder, maybe look for a comparable home with someone else and get a tender to compare. Then you have a couple you can scrutinise. And you would have something you can bargain with as well. My Hamptons build (completed): viewtopic.php?f=31&t=63370 Moved in Wednesday 11th Dec 2013 Front landscaping completed June 2016 Hey. Head to a metal and decide on which profile you will use first. Profiles with larger corrugations can greatly change the appearance of the color in different… 0 3357 I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15020 |