Bluestone Green Stage 23 - Wyndham Vale

Here's the thing...the way I see it, during the whole 'woo'ing' stage of selling the land, all price lists and lot availability sheets, for Stage 23 anyway, all stipluated 'Expected Release: April 2010'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone told me the land was 'Expected' to be released in April 2010...that's when I'd 'expect' to get it.

However, if they had told me the 'Estimated' release is April 2010, then that could be interpretted as any time between April 2010 and December 2015.

I'm looking at taking the argument to them that 'Expected' and 'Estimated' are 2 different definitions. We bought the land on the 'Expectation' that it would be released this month.

Does that make sense? Would it be wrong to think that using such wording could be construed as false advertising?

Thoughts?

EDIT: This is my point:


This is from a price list supplied to us back in June 2009. Even though its stage 17...you get my drift. Did Stage 17 buyers 'Expect' February 2010...or did they 'Estimate' February 2010 when buying the lot?

If the developer 'Expected'...you'd have your titles already.

When purchasing our land, stage 15, we specifically enquired whether this was when the land would be released (i.e. October 2009) and were assured that they could see no reason why it would not occur as expected. It was only on this assurance that we purchased the land. We would have purchased land elsewhere, had we known that there would be a delay of 7 months. I believe that regardless of what language they use, "expected or estimated" the fact that they advertise "release dates" and then are unable to get within "cooee" of the date, also appears to me to be - false advertising.

The more I think about it, the more misleading/deceptive/false their advertising is.

ex·pect (k-spkt)
v. ex·pect·ed, ex·pect·ing, ex·pects
v.tr.
1.
a. To look forward to the probable occurrence or appearance of: expecting a telephone call; expects rain on Sunday.
b. To consider likely or certain: expect to see them soon. See Usage Note at anticipate.
2. To consider reasonable or due: We expect an apology.
3. To consider obligatory; require: The school expects its pupils to be on time.
4. Informal To presume; suppose.
v.intr.
1. To look forward to the birth of one's child. Used in progressive tenses: His sister is expecting in May.
2. To be pregnant. Used in progressive tenses: My wife is expecting again.

vs

es·ti·mate (st-mt)
tr.v. es·ti·mat·ed, es·ti·mat·ing, es·ti·mates
1. To calculate approximately (the amount, extent, magnitude, position, or value of something).
2. To form an opinion about; evaluate: "While an author is yet living we estimate his powers by his worst performance" (Samuel Johnson).
n. (-mt)
1. The act of evaluating or appraising.
2. A tentative evaluation or rough calculation, as of worth, quantity, or size.
3. A statement of the approximate cost of work to be done, such as a building project or car repairs.
4. A judgment based on one's impressions; an opinion.

Besides, a pregnant mother is never 'estimating' her delivery date...she's always 'expecting'.

Any Bluestone Green owners still waiting up for some Class Action against $cumland?

I am starting to look into legal action myself. It would be best if everyone affected by these delays formed a class action lawsuit against the developer.

Section 12 of the Sale of Land Act 1962 relates to Offences in relation to the Sale of Land:

12. Offences in relation to the sale of land
Any person who, with the intention of inducing
any person to buy any land—

(a) knowingly or recklessly makes or publishes
any false representation or wilfully false
promise;

(b) states or publishes any statement that he or
some other person named by him will buy, at
a profit to be received in the future by such
prospective purchaser—
(i) the land in question or any part thereof;
(ii) any interest in that land or in any part
thereof; or
(iii) any other land or chattel owned by the
prospective purchaser;

(c) states or publishes any statement that he or
some other person named by him will at
some future time obtain for the prospective
purchaser a profit on the sale of the land in
question or any part thereof or any interest in
that land or in any part thereof;

(d) makes or publishes any statement promise or
forecast which he knows to be misleading or
deceptive or ** conceals any
material facts or recklessly makes any
statement or forecast which is misleading or
deceptive; or

(e) makes any statement promise or forecast
concerning the provision of amenities or
services which are normally provided by the
State or by any statutory authority unless he
has been advised in writing by the State or
by the authority in question that such
amenities or services will be so provided—

shall be guilty of an offence against this Act and
shall for every such offence be liable to a penalty
of not more than 50 penalty units or to
imprisonment for a term of not more than twelve
months.

The contract may exclude provisions for compensation or penalties but they are still bound by the law. See my earlier post about the Sale of Land Act...

I am contemplating getting the media involved too. You seem to get more action when there's media attention.

Specifically referencing Stage 23...$cumland last year when they released Stage 23 for sale, stipulated 'Expected Release April 2010'. I'm pretty sure they would have been very well informed of the set backs and delays being incurred in the preceeding stages (15, 16, 17 etc). As a result of these previous delays...Sunland STILL presisted on advertising an April 2010 release.

jensational - I'm thinking of engaging my conveyancer to point us in the right direction and work with us to see how valid our intentions are of holding these ******* $cumland developers accountable. Let me know how you go.

Cheers

This is what I've sent to my Conveyancer as a starting point:

Hey XXXXX,
I thought you'd be the best person to turn to first with regards to some professional knowledge/advice on the purchase of our block. Before I do though, please consider the below brief which leads into my questions:

* We agreed to purchase Lot 2344 @ Bluestone Green from the Sunland Group, mid-2009 on the basis that the land was to be released 'April 2010'. This 'Expected Release' date was advised to us by Oliver Hume...which they would have received this advice from the Sunland Group.
* Since then, our release has been pushed back to late May/early June 2010, then revised to September 2010.
* We've signed our Simonds early January 2010 with the designated site start of April 2010. Of course, this site start we provided to Simonds based on the information provided to us by Oliver Hume/Sunland.
o Simonds have provided a contingency plan whereby for every month post-April (Simonds contracted start month) they cannot start construction, we are required to pay $1000. This contingency protects us from incurring an increase to the base house price. As I understand, Simonds advise the base price has risen by $7000.
o We've recently signed a post-contract variation to the contingeny plan and agree to pay $3000 which will 'protect' us through till the end of October 2010.
o All up, we are currently looking at $4000 worth of contingency fees. Roughly (at this stage) a saving of about $3000 over the base house price.



Whilst I appreciate and respect Simonds and the intentions of their contingency plan, it has of course been incurred as a direct result of the delays by Sunland developing our stage. What we have here is further costs being incurred to us, through a situation that is entirely out of our hands. So the questions being:

* Using your experience and expertise, are you able to advise if any of these congingency fees/penalties can be passed onto the developer?
* I may have briefly read in our land sales contract that the developer WILL NOT be liable (for one of the better words) for any penalties that we incur as a result of their delays. Are you able to confirm/deny this in our contract?


Diving a little deeper, I read in the 'Sale of Land Act 1962', specifically Section 12:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/ ... 0/s12.html

Sale of Land Act 1962 - SECT 12

Offences in relation to the sale of land

12. Offences in relation to the sale of land

Any person who, with the intention of inducing any person to buy any land-

(a) knowingly or recklessly makes or publishes any false representation or
wilfully false promise;

(b) states or publishes any statement that he or some other person named
by him will buy, at a profit to be received in the future by such
prospective purchaser-

(i) the land in question or any part thereof;

(ii) any interest in that land or in any part thereof; or

(iii) any other land or chattel owned by the prospective purchaser;

(c) states or publishes any statement that he or some other person named
by him will at some future time obtain for the prospective purchaser a
profit on the sale of the land in question or any part thereof or any
interest in that land or in any part thereof;

(d) makes or publishes any statement promise or forecast which he knows to
be misleading or deceptive or ** conceals any material facts
or recklessly makes any statement or forecast which is misleading or
deceptive; or

(e) makes any statement promise or forecast concerning the provision of
amenities or services which are normally provided by the State or by
any statutory authority unless he has been advised in writing by the
State or by the authority in question that such amenities or services
will be so provided-

shall be guilty of an offence against this Act and shall for every such
offence be liable to a penalty of not more than 50 penalty units or to
imprisonment for a term of not more than twelve months.

The above 2 highlighted points from Section 12 (which I may or may not be correct in pointing out, hopefully where we can leverage off your expertise), is especially of interest to me. We purchased the land on the 'Expectation' of an April 2010 release. Over the past few weeks/months it has become evident that the release of stages prior to ours have also been delayed which inturn leads me to believe that the developer would have been very much well aware that an April 2010 release of Stage 23 was not possible, hence the two highlighted points above.

As you can appreciate, the constant delays to release and subsequent 'penalties' through no fault of our own causes us a great deal of frustration and anger. Since of course we have a long time before September for apparent release, your assistance in providing some advice in this would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

We also bought a land from stage 21 and now its delayed from May to December.

Now they are releasing stage 19 and if anyone interested just give them a call they would say it would be released in December. Tamara (sales person) is a big liar. I checked the progress of my land time to time and they have absolutely done nothing since last November yet they are promising the potential buyers that they are releasing stage 19 in Dec. These people are amazing.

Hey everyone. I have created a group on facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/edit.php ... 8547699608

Join me!

I just want to express how frustrated i am. I am building a house in Wallara WAters Wallan vic. I purchased land in November and the developer Australand said that land release would be around March. Yeah fat chance...it is let me see now September 2010 and my land hasnt even been released. Its pathetic and i just want to know if anyone else is a frustrated as me. And on top of all that Simonds is charging a 6000 dollar increase in house price which we have been slumped with. Then if land doesnt get released as promised in Oct-Nov we have to pay $1000 a month to simonds. This is disgusting and pathetic. The little guy always gets crap dropped on top of them dont they. We were so happy building our first brand new home and this has turned me right off. What right have simonds to charge this amount of money. It is a rip off and im sure they are trying to recover costs from something else, so they are trying to rip off home buyers of the cost. i am so disgusted with this and it makes me angry. Has anyone else gone through this? Or should we all stick together and send the bill to Australand. If we were able to do this from the start and the developer was charged i dont think our land would of been delayed

its not the builders fault because in the time from you signing your building contract the cost of building has increased so must the price

i agree that the developer should have more responsibility we went up 6k because of our delay

Bluestone is being developed by Sunland, and its actually the subcontractor they employ which is causing the delays. I bought in stage 15 Bluestone and was delayed 9 months for my land...

We starting looking for land in Wyndham vale in July 2010 in OCT I paid the 5% for a block of land in stage 22and i was told the land release will be Jan-Feb 2011. then i was told it will be in march or April 2011 and then i was told end of this financial year and now by the looks of the things, it look like it would be not earlier than August/September .
I CAN"T BELIEVE IT WOULD BE ALMOST A YEAR TO RELEASE THE LAND.
I have already signed the house contract and if i don;t built with specific time , i will be charged around $2000.I called my agent and he told me , it is because of bad weather , I asked weather is same for whole Wyndham vale how come manor lakes is so quick .
Not sure if I can claim the late construction fine from the developer
I don;t understand why blue stone is taking too long to release the land. Manor lakes is so quick when land is concerned.One my friend gave the deposit for the land in feb 2011 and he has already moved to new places.
Seriously i am still burning my money on rent .....

Welcome to delayed club mate. I am stage 21 and now our land is with the registry. Currently it is a 13 months delay.

Mates,

This is my first comment in this forum. I have been reading all the posts and comments regarding bluestone green and most have them have complained about delayed land title. Please don't jump on me on what I am about to ask. I too bought a block of land in Bluestone estate in Stage20 in April this year. One of the main reasons that pushed me to buy it, was they had promised a late land title (2nd quarter of next year). Yeah I know...unlike most of you here I had preferred a delayed land settlement as I had other plans and commitments in my priority list. The timing was perfect as I did not have to borrow a loan from the bank until probably feb 2012 just before the settlement.

But just when I had called the sunland group yesterday to check upon updates if any, the estate manager mentioned to me that the title for my land can be expected sooner(early summer) than the tentative 2nd quarter. This was a bit unusual of sunland and a bit of shock to me, as I had planned things according to the late settlement. It would be great to hear of you from your experience how true could the news be about the early settlement, and should I be basing my future plans (signing a rental contract for a year to move out with my gf, buying a new car on loan) on this news.

Your opinions would definitely put me in a clearer state of mind.
Thanks,
Kris.

They are unpredictable thats true. But earlier settlement hmm..It is very interesting.

Can someone tell me, which stage is being titled now? and how far is Stage 20 from being titled.

Thanks.

Hi skyzdlimit, Stage 21 just titled (June). If stage 20 is with the council it should be the next.

Guys Guys Guys...Living in wyndham Vale - Bluestone Green,Just had the NBN installed at my place last week. Stage 19-23 is NBN capable now and ever resident in that Area would getting the NBN with in next 3 months. as far as Manor lakes in concerned stage 113-116 would be getting NBN In next few months . Rest all have to wait for few years