Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 23, 2009 5:04 pm There is a similar topic for the Slab, so I thought we should have one for Frames. Does anyone have any tips / knowledge / experience they would like to share? When you are looking at your frame, what are you looking for? Is is useful to get an independent inspection and what are people's experiences in how the builder addressed (or not) the issues raised by your own inspector? ... etc... anything related to the frame and making sure it's OK. Does anyone have any tips / knowledge / experience they would like to share? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 2Nov 27, 2009 4:33 pm OK, I'll start building a list. First up, what are the main related standards? --> AS 1684 (Residential Timber Framed Construction). Plus, since they are also installed in this stage, can use AS 2047 (Windows in Buildings - Selection and Installation). My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 4Nov 28, 2009 3:41 pm Ask for a Frame Layout from your builder. It will look a bit like this Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ All the red numbers are mistakes that our independent inspector found. However once he showed me how to read the layout document I could have done it myself. See where the number 5 is, and the circle, that means a piece of bracing was supposed to be there, up the top of the layout was a Legend it said that each of the squares was supposed to be two 45mm bits of wood together, all the red 1's show how many of those where missing. Ask your builder for the frame layout, if you think you can read it, then do the inspection yourself. If you can't read it then its worth the $300 to get someone else to come in and do an inspection. The bit where the number 2 is, the builders had put in the wrong size wood in the frame, so the door frame was then to small, and to compensate the cut the supporting vertical timber. I would have seen that there where two bits of vertical wood side by side that matched the layout and thought it was fine, however he picked up that it was the wrong size wood and that it was cut. This is your house and you want it to stay up for a long time, I'd check the frame Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 5Nov 28, 2009 4:05 pm slugnoid Well, you really don't need to look for anything. Your building surveyor will provide a mandatory frame inspection, which is 100% independent from the builder. It's only a structural inspection. They don't check the straightness of the walls (so your plaster isn't all wavy) or the size of doorways, rooms etc. It's definitely worth checking these things yourself or getting in someone who can. Just because the inspector says the frame won't fall down, doesn't mean it's the frame you wanted or paid for. Ours wasn't, and my brother's wasn't either. But they're fixing it, so it's all good now Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 6Nov 28, 2009 8:13 pm slugnoid Well, you really don't need to look for anything. Your building surveyor will provide a mandatory frame inspection, which is 100% independent from the builder. Yeah, and I'm Marylin Monroe (yes, the one!) ... you must be a good joker, aren't ya! Thanks netadelle! Now that I know that there is an extra layout (which of course I don't have), there's yet another battle to be had ... my questions and requests always remain unanswered. Doesn't matter how many times you ask. (slugnoid, if you are not the builder yourself, then I wouldn't wish you my lot) netadelle, if it's important for understanding (training), could you enlarge that photo a bit ??? I mean if it's important to also read the numbers etc., like 1.2, X, 2.7, etc... (can't see stuff inside squares ) I mean if it's important. I do have some kind of "frame" plan, together with several "typical section" plans, all on one paper (called Structural Steel plan). It is just bare walls (frame), ie. no writings/numbers/symbols on it whatsoever!! just walls, and only the ground floor That's why I think that's not it (?!). I know what you mean by knowing to do it yourself!! I learnt so much about the formworks that I could inspect simple ones (like ours is) myself!! And I figured and learned about what NOT to do ... who would have thought that !! Anyway, I am definitely getting own inspector. Should I get a Structural Engineer, or any surveyor/builder would do? (since this is structural stuff) ... I heard from a Structural Engineer that the Frame is at least as important as the slab, and I tend to trust him on that. Thanks so much !!! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 7Nov 28, 2009 8:41 pm Felistopher It's only a structural inspection. They don't check the straightness of the walls (so your plaster isn't all wavy) or the size of doorways, rooms etc. It's definitely worth checking these things yourself or getting in someone who can. Just because the inspector says the frame won't fall down, doesn't mean it's the frame you wanted or paid for. Ours wasn't, and my brother's wasn't either. But they're fixing it, so it's all good now Hmmmm... now it all gets very tricky. How on earth would I know which is the frame I wanted and paid for ??? I wouldn't know it from a bar of soap (so to speak)! And what about my inspector? How can I let him know? I cant see anything in our contracts mentioning the frame type ... BTW, our inspector suggested to have just one insptn, I think pre-plaster (how much can I forget under stress!?!?!? so annoying ...) so we can save some money. When I said I'd like to be "more sure" , he then offered the alternative (2 insptn's) - one post frame, the other (I think ) pre-plaster (or was it post!?!?!) ... at a reduced rate. Re. frame falling down - well, if the house falls down within 6 years, hopefully all I need to worry about is to get out asap ... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 8Nov 29, 2009 12:14 am netadelle Ask for a Frame Layout from your builder. All the red numbers are mistakes that our independent inspector found. However once he showed me how to read the layout document I could have done it myself. See where the number 5 is, and the circle, that means a piece of bracing was supposed to be there, up the top of the layout was a Legend it said that each of the squares was supposed to be two 45mm bits of wood together, all the red 1's show how many of those where missing. Ask your builder for the frame layout, if you think you can read it, then do the inspection yourself. If you can't read it then its worth the $300 to get someone else to come in and do an inspection. The bit where the number 2 is, the builders had put in the wrong size wood in the frame, so the door frame was then to small, and to compensate the cut the supporting vertical timber. I would have seen that there where two bits of vertical wood side by side that matched the layout and thought it was fine, however he picked up that it was the wrong size wood and that it was cut. This is your house and you want it to stay up for a long time, I'd check the frame May i ask which independent inspector you used...??? im also from Adelaide, nth suburbs... We have just had slab layed... we didnt use an inspector for the slab.....but will def get one in for frame and prob handover... Cheers Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 9Nov 29, 2009 7:36 am Medsy - I use - tell him the lady from Flagstaff Pines referred you, and he might give me a discount on my next inspection Kris Jones for Blue Square Developments email: info@bluesq.com.au web: www.bluesq.com.au Lex - I have had the slab inspected, and the frame inspected so far. I am also going to get the bricks inspected and then the final PCI - so four in total. We are going up the block to have a bit of a clean up now, so I will scan the frame layout and put it up when we get back. Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 10Nov 29, 2009 10:16 pm Just came across this site which lists what this co. inspects at certain stages, including Frame. Here is the page talking about frame inspections: http://www.abis.com.au/frame-stage-inspection My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 11Dec 05, 2009 7:42 pm Here we go. Found about the plysheet flooring for upper storeys. Each manufacturer will have their own guidelines - this is ours. Extract from the publically available document. "Even when left exposed to the elements for up to three months Trade Essentials® Particleboard Flooring is guaranteed to meet the required standards (if guidelines are followed)." ... "capable of withstanding general weathering for up to 3 months. To maintain best practice, boards must be covered on building sites. It is recommended to avoid where possible, exposure of the panels to severe conditions, such as prolonged exposure to intense sun, cyclic soaking rain etc, as these exposures have the potential to alter the moisture gradient of the panels and may cause dimensional change, similar to natural timber." ... And there you go - how likely is that the builder will take any notice of these mfr's guidelines? Has anyone ever seen their builder actually covering the sheets? Installation instructions are also there ... http://www.thelaminexgroup.com.au/.../TradeGuide_Part_Flooring.pdf My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 12Apr 16, 2010 11:07 pm I needed a copy of the structural engineering for the frame and bracing so Alex the building surveyor can do his inspection. I was told by Carlisle unless its a double storey engineers no longer do a structural report or plan for frames. Instead all frames for single storey are built according to section 16 84 of the building code.I was told the inspector will need to look this up. Does anyone know anything about this new method? does anyone have a copy 1684BC Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 13Apr 17, 2010 7:44 am Andy - this question is repeated in http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22296&p=455342#p455342 - see my response there .... My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 14Apr 17, 2010 8:44 am Good topic lex, Wish I knew about the info you need to cover the flooring. I am not happy with my flooring also... was exposed for about 11 weeks. the edges have peaked and queaks and knocks. they did sand it down but still squeaks, they tokenly pump nail and glue on a one area but still not much help. They should of covered it or put up the roof first then the bricks. in my opinion they suck for not doing the right thing with the floors. Santorini Grande Executive Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 16Apr 19, 2010 10:32 pm great thread ! I am emailing the frame layout posted here to my CLO. They reckon single storey homes dont have a frame/truss layout plan .The truss & frame is based on Section 1684 for residential timber and framed constructions. Everyone on this thread and other threads tell me to the contary. Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 17Apr 20, 2010 1:33 am Andy - This is my roof truss plan, the lines in grey that zig zags around the house are the roof bracing, the letters with numericals are indications of where the trusses, creepers, valleys etc should be installed. I hope this will help you. Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 18Apr 20, 2010 7:51 am andy great thread ! I am emailing the frame layout posted here to my CLO. They reckon single storey homes dont have a frame/truss layout plan .The truss & frame is based on Section 1684 for residential timber and framed constructions. Everyone on this thread and other threads tell me to the contary. I don't believe that any house does not have frame and truss layout plans. The creation of the plans might be a routine these days (almost mass production, just like slab plans), but they should still exist for every single house. Don't get side-tracked by them saying they "don't have" them, they have to have them, or have to be able to know where to get them. They will need to give these same plans to the PCA for their frame inspection! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Your Frame - What to Look out for? 20Apr 20, 2010 2:48 pm I emailed my CSA for a copy of the frame inspection report by the building surveyor, as I am new to this can you comment on the copy I received. On the top most - building surveyor details bold letters after the details : INSPECTION REPORT -APPROVED (s37 BUIDLING ACT 1993) property details description of buidling works: Construction of detacheddwelling and garage as per plans part of building: as per plans Inspection item: framework and date Report: An inspection of the above property revealed that the buidling work is generally in compliance with the provision of the act, regulations, bca and/or australian standards as are relevant to the approved buidling permit documents. Special instruction and or Directions - blank Inspection Results: I ehreby certify that the part of te work described above has been inspected by me and does comply with the following provision of the Act and Regualtions. Signed Building inspector - Blank then date <==== is it customary that this part is blank and not signed? Buidling inspector: initials Thanks heaps, Jon This is 100% true. 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