Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 07, 2007 7:46 am Hi guys,
I'm from Europe and not many people are building wooden houses here, thats why i'm curious why are they so popular in some locations. We are making the most houses from bricks. Looking at the price, wooden houses are just as expensive as brick houses here, maybe thats why people don't have enough motivation yet(motivation to risk something new). Or is it something else? Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 2Jul 07, 2007 8:25 am Just speaking from the Aussie’s I know and have met, and my own experience with timber……
Timber creates a LOT up-keep in Australia. Us Aussies would rather BBQ and watch football in our spare time than have to do continual sanding and oiling of our homes. I think that’s why brick is the most popular building selection, it never needs maintaining. Our sun is hotter over here and does lots of damage to lots of things. I guess over the years we have adapted ourselves to what is best for our climate……sort of. We are still building homes with no verandas for sun protection, so maybe we need to take a little longer to get it right. ![]() Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 3Jul 07, 2007 8:35 am ![]() We are making the most houses from bricks. Michelle - I think Andrej is saying that most houses are double brick, whereas ours are brick veneer. Interesting that we had a thread a little while back saying that many homes in WA are also double brick. I suspect the use of double brick on Europe could be to do with climate. We probably also have a more plentiful supply of plantation timber for building here also. Perry Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 4Jul 07, 2007 9:02 am As Perry said Andrej in western aus solid brick is popular and in areas of queensland single external block construction is popular.
Brick construction probably has less maintenance overall compared to weatherboard cladding but there are still items common to both such as windows etc Solid brick construction costs more for foundations and is harder & generally costs more to fix if there are any movement in the foundations which is not uncommom on our clay soils (if its not built right) The outside skin in solid brick construction in our cooler areas is harder to get up to the same thermal efficiency levels as a brick veneer home or a timber clad home. Having said that I think it really comes down to the fact that in the past timber has been a cheap resource. In western aus they don't have many trees (& their known to be behind the eastern states in more than just the time zone anyway) In Qld they have large termites so the less timber is probably better. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 5Jul 07, 2007 9:34 am Andrej,
The low use of brick houses in Australia also perplexes me. And I live in Sydney. As ausdesign has said, we (at least the eastern states) have clay soils. This is both a disadvantage (lots of soil movement as the ground changes from wet to dry) and advantages (plenty of raw material to make bricks). ausdesign put it well when he said that it's important to build the foundation right. For you information Andrej, Western Australia is almost exclusively full brick construction, while the eastern states are mainly brick veneer (brick outside and plaster board on the inside). You also need to note that only about 5 to 10% of the population lives in Western Australia and that well over half the population is in the eastern states (Victoria, NSW and Queensland). I will be using full brick in my construction in Sydney since, to me, it's the way to go: * low maintenance * large thermal mass, therefore best thermal performance * robust (hard to knock a hole in brick rendered internal wall) I am paying particular attention to the foundation; piers done to shale (about 1 to 2 metres down) and concrete slab. Most people will say that full brick construction is more expensive. Firstly, why not in Western Australia? Secondly, the Rawlinsons Construction Cost Guide full has brick costs the same as brick veneer. SO WHY WOULD ANYONE NOT BUILD IN FULL BRICK RATHER THAN BRICK VENEER? In practice, builders charge more for brick veneer and I suspect that this is because it is seen as a premium market. In Sydney, about 40 years ago there were mainly two types of houses; full brick and totally non-brick. Then there was a move towards brick veneer. Not sure what triggered this move, but now there appears to be no reason for brick veneer (at least in Sydney). The only reason I can see now is the heard mentality. Being a nation with a high sheep population, maybe this makes sense ? So, are we a bunch of sheep or is there a compelling reason to build brick veneer when full brick offers so many advantages – even if you do end up paying 5% more? Cheers, Casa Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 6Jul 07, 2007 9:56 am Hey Casa - well put.
I'd agree that the thermal mass on the internal walls is definitely an advantage but have a problem wih the inner skin of external walls taking the heat out to the cavity. Have you looked into this & how to insulate the skin ? Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 7Jul 07, 2007 8:35 pm ![]() Hey Casa - well put. I'd agree that the thermal mass on the internal walls is definitely an advantage but have a problem wih the inner skin of external walls taking the heat out to the cavity. Have you looked into this & how to insulate the skin ? I'm convinced that full brick is the way to go for best thermal performance, but I'm currently perplexed about whether it is better to add insulation or not. As we know, a double brick cavity wall has an R value of about 0.7 m2.K/W. This can be improved by 1.0 m2.K/W by adding either double-sided reflective foil or 30 mm polystyrene foam. The question is, do I want to add the insulation? Most people would say yes, but there is something else to consider. A cavity brick wall has a thermal lag of about 7-8 hours. This means that in winter the sun's warmth on the north wall will find it's way into the house in the evening. Just like in winter you want sunlight to enter a window, I suspect that you also want it to hit the walls. Any insulation would reduce any heat flow into the house. Of course in summer you need to provide shading for the walls, just as is the case for windows. So, do I put insulation in? My current thinking, and I have to do some more research, is to only insulate the non-northern walls. Any thoughts out there? Andrej, sorry about taking this topic off course, but hopefully others will find discussion on the thermal performance eof full brick interesting. Cheers, Casa Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 8Jul 07, 2007 10:58 pm I would love to build my house in full brick. Unfortunately the cost is about $10K - $20K extra for Sydney.
What I hate most is, with brick veneer houses, after a few years, the flooring on 1st floor start making squeaking noises when you walk on it... Cheers Allan http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/ Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 9Jul 07, 2007 11:03 pm Great info, guys, thanks.
Casa2: About the brick isolation. We don't have any other options, because during the winter time, the temperature is often under 0 celsius. The R norm is 3 over here, but most new houses have it within 4-6, which means a brick of 30-44cm + 10-20cm of isolation and 3-glass windows. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 10Jul 07, 2007 11:05 pm ![]() What I hate most is, with brick veneer houses, after a few years, the flooring on 1st floor start making squeaking noises when you walk on it... Why is that? Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 11Jul 07, 2007 11:08 pm ![]() Michelle - I think Andrej is saying that most houses are double brick, whereas ours are brick veneer. Yeah, and I just learned the difference between double brick and brick veneer. ![]() Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 12Jul 07, 2007 11:29 pm ![]() Great info, guys, thanks. Casa2: About the brick isolation. We don't have any other options, because during the winter time, the temperature is often under 0 celsius. The R norm is 3 over here, but most new houses have it within 4-6, which means a brick of 30-44cm + 10-20cm of isolation and 3-glass windows. Andrej, Our full brick houses are 110 mm brick + 50 mm air gap + 110 mm brick (+13 mm cement render). Sometimes there is insulation which adds 1 R. It rarely gets below zero even on a winters night in Sydney. Where abouts are you from? Cheers, Casa Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 13Jul 08, 2007 12:32 am ![]() ![]() Great info, guys, thanks. Casa2: About the brick isolation. We don't have any other options, because during the winter time, the temperature is often under 0 celsius. The R norm is 3 over here, but most new houses have it within 4-6, which means a brick of 30-44cm + 10-20cm of isolation and 3-glass windows. Andrej, Our full brick houses are 110 mm brick + 50 mm air gap + 110 mm brick (+13 mm cement render). Sometimes there is insulation which adds 1 R. It rarely gets below zero even on a winters night in Sydney. Where abouts are you from? Cheers, Casa Casa, I'm from Bratislava (Slovak Republic). What is the air gap for between the 2 bricks? Wouldn't be 1 bigger brick more stable? Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 14Jul 08, 2007 11:24 am Casa I was thinking more of the internal skin transferring heat away from inside the home.
Internal walls will absorb the heat & then return it to the rooms as they cool down but the internal wall of the outer skin will absorb the heat & lose it to the cavity. Andrej the cavity is to stop water penetration through the brickwork. With a 'single skin' construction the bricks have to be sealed with a waterproofing agent to prevent water being absorbed by the bricks or blocks. Peter Clarkson - AusDesign Australia www.ausdesign.com.au This information is intended to provide general information only. It does not purport to be a comprehensive advice. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 15Jul 08, 2007 1:53 pm Andrej,
Good to have someone so far afield on the forum. Would like to hear more about how building paractices vary between your region and Australia. ausdesign, Going for a full brick house, I'm more worried about heating than cooling. To make matters worse I'm on a south sloping block (therefore local microclimate will be colder than surrounding) with views to the south (therefore large windows to the south). I also have the objective, or is it challenge, of keeping the house between 20 to 26 degreees Celcius all year round without any heaters or air-conditioning. Any tips on how to keep the house warm would be appreciated. Currently, relying on northern windows to heat the thermal mass. Will also install some solar panels to circulate water through hydronic pipes in the floor slab. Cheers, Casa Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 16Jul 08, 2007 6:44 pm The house I grew up in was double brick. The only thing my parents didn't like was the fact that every 10 yrs or so to stop cracks in the walls they needed to be re-sanded down, plastered and painted. Was a pain in the butt!
Surely the cost of extra insulation on a brick veneer house (or doing something like reverse brick veneer) would be cheaper than going double brick but just as effective. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 17Jul 08, 2007 7:01 pm stonecutter,
I hope there was something specific to your parents house that caused the cracks and work required. My parents house is also full brick and although there was cracking once during an extended dry period, it's been OK. I put down my parents problem to the fact that the house was build in many stages. I'd like to think, as ausdesign mentioned, that if the foundations are done well then there should be no cracking. The (hopefully) great thing about full brick is that you never need to paint the outside and the inside is more robust (less holes in walls, etc). Wouldn't think that reverse brick veneer would be any less prone to cracking. Cheers, Casa Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 18Jul 08, 2007 7:37 pm ![]() ![]() What I hate most is, with brick veneer houses, after a few years, the flooring on 1st floor start making squeaking noises when you walk on it... Why is that? Because it's in timber, not concrete! Only the floors for ground floor are in concrete! Cheers Allan http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/ Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 19Jul 08, 2007 8:32 pm ausdesign & ahuang, thanks for the replies ![]() Casa, you can follow the process of my house on my page. About heating, when the temperatures are stable in your area(not too cold in the winter), a small heat pump would doa good job. http://www.srpnet.com/energy/pumpworks.aspx But not as big as on the pic, there are also smaller ones for the outside wall, which would be strong enough. Re: Why are wooden houses so popular in Australia? 20Jul 09, 2007 11:05 am Casa - my parents place was built on landfill - and old quarry.
They had the option of building double brick again in their new house (steep sloping site, same as house #1) and went with some special foam stuff on the outside and gyprock on the inside. Even though they ended up spending $950k on the house - it was still cheaper than going double brick for their site. Our apartment is double brick - cracking is pretty bad - it's a 7yr old building and the land has changed substantially during the drought. The area is high in clay. I can see how it's easier to go double brick in places like WA where the soil is so stable. Matt, Thank you to you and your family for such a well produced and educational video! What a fantastic contribution to this forum. 6 2711 ![]() Old Home Restoration / Renovation Thanks Guys Unfortunately, I cant get the resilient mounts happening because of the loss of the aesthetic of the exposed I beams 5 2224 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair You could use thermal imaging camera to detect water pipes. You should be able to get a low end version of it for around $250 from AliExpress. 2 5810 |