Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 04, 2009 9:12 pm Hi We're getting close to signing after many amendments with the specs. Now i have asked the builder for a copy of the contract and this was his reply: "Unfortunately we cannot leave an unsigned contract with you as it is a legally binding document with a 5 day cooling off period once it is signed... If you would like a contract to read over contact Master Builders for a copy. The contract only contains details of contract price, progress payments and time frame." Does this sound right as we would like to get a solicitor to look at it as per most advise on this forum? How can I go about this with this builder, especially with completion date and liquidated damages amount. Thank you! s Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 2Nov 04, 2009 9:18 pm this is what the cooling off period is for building heysen4e through SarahHomes at Milang IM THE PROUD OWNER OF DIRT house into council 22/08 Unconditionally approved 25/09 mortgage docs signed 29/09 land settled 09/10 land titled 22/10 start date about two weeks away!!! http://www.mymilangbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 3Nov 04, 2009 9:20 pm Do not be bullied into this. Simply tell them that you want a copy of the contract to review at home and pass to your solicitor, and that you will not proceed with your house without it. Adrian B Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 4Nov 05, 2009 11:26 am There seems to be a few builders who are employing this tactic! I for one would never be forced to sign a contract without reading, re-reading and then getting a legal representative to also read it. Our builder express posted our contracts to us and we made an appointment a week after receiving them to go over any questions we had and felt very comfortable in signing the document after this. Building with Dennis Family Homes - Hartley 280 Location: Settlers Run, Botanic Ridge Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 5Nov 05, 2009 1:47 pm We had the same issue with our builder...BUT...there are a few tips I'd like to give: We advised our builder that WE WOULD NOT sign the contract on the contract signing appointment. Regardless of how correct or incorrect the contract was, we would not sign it. Common sense prevailed and whilst we will still be attending the contract appointment, they're allowing us to take the unsigned contract home for review. Should that not have happened, I'll draw your attention to a couple of points we could have used in our favour. In our case: Dot point 3 of the HIA New Homes Contract Checklist - Has the owner had long enough to read and understand the contract? Yes or No. Without even reading the contents of the contract, this point alone is enough to argue that we simply cannot sign the contract. Regardless of how long the contract signing appointment goes for, this is nowhere near long enough to 'read and understand' the document. Read up on Part 3, Division 3, Section 35 of the Domestic Building Contracts ACT 1995. If you get the contract checked out by a Legal Authority prior to signing, then you waive the 5-day cooling off period. So, sign and have a cooling off period - then battle to make all the required corrections...OR...get it checked out and forego the 5-day cooling off period, BUT, in the knowledge that your contract is 100% ship-shape. EDIT: By the way, regardless of what your builder says about giving you a blank copy of a standard industry contract - the contract for your builder is the Master Builder or HIA contract PLUS all associated documents pertaining to your house. That is what makes the contract...not just the industry document. Hope this helps. Cheers Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 6Nov 05, 2009 2:33 pm Copy the above poster... We had a builder who hemmed and hawed about giving us the copy... they only wanted to give us the std HIA doc to look at beforehand. Of course everything that pertained to the house was in a special conditions component, and the whole document was so factually incorrect and incomplete that in the end on, legal advice, we refused to sign. We now have a new builder - and we're much happier so far. Stand your ground is my advice. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 8Nov 05, 2009 3:45 pm ssvetec makes the main importaint point. "If you get the contract checked out by a Legal Authority prior to signing, then you waive the 5-day cooling off period." We sort of........ However, the reasion your builder does not want to give you the contract is they dont want you to take it to a solisitor at all. This is why you should. Try to get them to sign first. As its not a contract till both parties sign it. Check special conditions to see how long you have to accept their offer (ie. sign it) Tell them you cant come to the office and you need them to post it out to you both of them. Then take it to a solicitor not too close to home. They have to proove you got legal advice if you want to keep your 5 day cooling off. If you have both contracts and both parties have signed, its not a done deal till they are exchanged (you give back there copy). Dont sign with out a friend with you as a witness to the date. The best idea is to keep it for as long as you like, I had mine over 2 weeks. Most contracts ask for the 5% on signing so dont sign till you are ready, if you cool off after you pay the 5%, you will have a problem getting that 5% - their costs back from them. Remember this is your last call before the fall of the hammer. When you sign the builder has a sale and you have a commitment. Dont just take the contract to a legal adviser take the plans & spec. The average legal will not know about the plans or spec, but a construction legal guy will. As the spec, plans, and other doctument make up part of the contract they must be also looked at. The HIA is a plain contract, "same same" but its the Schedule 4 "Special conditions" that you have to understand and how it can impact on you. Please make sure you understand it, you dont have to enrole in "Contract Law 101" at TAFE, just understand what you are agreeing to. Ask yourself what do I want in it? IS the build time too long? Is the spec clear and precise, if not get it changed. Sorry to go on, but too many people have gone down this road and wished they had of understood the contract & spec better. Best of luck to you. Cheers KW............. “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 9Nov 05, 2009 3:59 pm su ann, This is very simple. If the builder is not comfortable with giving you the contract to look through well before they expect you to sign it, then RUN. RUN and don't look back. Find another builder. How could you be comfortable dealing with a builder who was trying to mislead you. If they had nothing to worry about, then they would not hesitate to give you a copy ahead of contract signing time. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 10Nov 05, 2009 4:19 pm I agree with "rubber_noggin" . We got copies of the contract and specifications with ample time to read through them and highlight any areas that were incorrect etc. We didn't even have to ask if we could take them home. We then arranged a time with the builder to sign the copies etc and go through any queries we may have had. Regardless of a "cooling-off" period or not, you shouldn't sign anything without understanding the nature of what you are legally binding yourself to. I would start asking questions as to why your builder does not want to give you copies of the contract/spec that you are entitled to. The bank doesn't tell you, you cannot have copies of the mortgage documents "because they are legal documents" now do they? Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 11Nov 05, 2009 4:49 pm I certainly agree with all that has been said. At the end of the day you are the customer and it should be on your terms. If it can't be, then find a builder who is willing to oblige. To be honest I can't believe they have the gall to try and pull a stunt like that. What have they got to hide? Would they sign a contract for that amount under those conditions? I would think not. It has already been said, but run and don't look back. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 12Nov 05, 2009 5:13 pm OMG!!!!! Thank you all so much for your advice. I will keep you posted. [quote="nqdog"]I certainly agree with all that has been said. At the end of the day you are the customer and it should be on your terms. If it can't be, then find a builder who is willing to oblige. To be honest I can't believe they have the gall to try and pull a stunt like that. What have they got to hide? Would they sign a contract for that amount under those conditions? I would think not. It has already been said, but run and don't look back.[/quote] Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 13Nov 05, 2009 6:00 pm One other point, you need to remember that these contracts are written by the building industry to essentially look after the interests of the building industry. It is imperative you undertake proper due diligence before signing to ensure your rights & expectations are covered. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 14Nov 13, 2009 12:18 pm After a bad run-in with Ashford Homes, I actually asked for a copy of contract (standard format) from AV Jennings and Simonds BEFORE I even sit down with the sales consultant to look at the plans that can fit my block. At the end of the day, you don't want to waste precious time/resources going through plans, designs only to be tripped by any clauses in the contract. The problem I had with Ashford Homes back in June 2009 was that they agreed in an email to change the $150 pw construction delay compensation to $250 pw only to back-flip a week later. The length of construction stated in the contract was already long - more than 8 months. Needless to say no way to get back $3,500 deposit. BACV and Consumer Affairs can't help too as Ashford Homes said they can provide evidence that they spent the money on soil test, drafting, rescode compliance, title search, 2x preparation building contract (they count the amendment even though the 1st copy contained mistakes in the plan) blah blah blah. I also learnt that if a builder charges a deposit more than the norm ($1000 for M3tr1con, $1500 for AV Jennings & Simonds) then it's best to be REALLY cautious. I read from some other threads that Clarendon Homes now charge $5000 - $6000 deposit to deter customers from walking away after building contracts are prepared?! Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 15Nov 13, 2009 7:21 pm singlemum2daughters this is what the cooling off period is for WRONG. The cooling off period is not for this. After you sign you can cancel the contract within 5 days of signing, but the builder can keep any "reasonable" amount to cover their costs. You will loose out. Make sure you are totally happy before you sign the contract. Do not rely on the cooling off period. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 16Nov 15, 2009 12:16 am Just an update: I told builder we won't be going ahead unless we have a chance to review the contract. I received a scanned copy today and would you believe! (actually I'm not at all surprised)...Liquidate Damages section was scrapped out. Construction Period was left blank. Cost escalation clause was filled in as Not Applicable - could they use this as a bargaining tool ie. if we make no issue of cost escalation then you make no issue of liquidated damages? For those familiar with the Master Builders contract progress payments - they chose Method A (whereby Section 66 of the ACT applies) - which is in fact 5% deposit, 10% base stage, 15% frame stage, 35% enclosed stage, 20% fixing stage, 15% for practical completion. But they wiped out the 10% and changed it to 15% for the base stage, and changed 15% to 5% for practical completion stage. I don't know why the builder has deviated from the standard contract progress payments. I never thought it'd be so tedius - first the specs/plans and now the contract - what's next, and we have not even begun. We're also under threat with our quotes only lasting 30 days with cost of materials increasing as being a reason to requote a higher price. Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 18Nov 15, 2009 12:33 am Umm... sounds like it might be a better option to cut your losses and move on. It doesn't sound like you are happy with what you have seen so far, why put yourself through potential heartache and grievances, when all you have to do is say thanks, but no thanks. Do you have other builders as an option? I'd be looking around for something different... you want your house, but do you want to be peeved at the builder and wondering what's going to bite you on the bum as you go along? Built with New Generation (Summit Homes) We own land!... with a slab on it! Plus a shell of a house with stuff inside ! Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 19Nov 15, 2009 12:27 pm if your already having problems and not happy at all at this stage, then i would suggest going for another builder.... you'll probably have more problems during the build.. Oxford 22 @ Stage12a Point Cook Site Cut : 05/03/2010 Slab Pour : 24/03/2010 Frame Inspected : 06/04/2010 Pre-plaster Inspection: 22/04/2010 PCI: 16/07/2010 Final Inspection: 30/07/2010 Landscaping: who knows??? MyHomeoneThread Our Oxford22 Blog Re: Contracts - need advice Please! 20Nov 15, 2009 4:54 pm The signs are there for a very uncomfortable ride, you are going to have a hard time with this builder throughout the build. I agree with "rubber_noggin", dont use this company. If there is anything I have learnt with my build its to go with your gut instinct. First thing to do is try to negotiate with a new builder before you even look at their house plans. Ask them to put in writing that they will use a BSA contract (more customer friendly than HIA) and accept liquidated damages that is equivalent to what your loses would be if the house completion was delayed.(If your renting then these would be, 2 x moves and short term furnished accomodation on short notice)Its only fair to cover what your costs would be if they stuff up. MBA and HIA both have sub contract agreements, check them out 2 7315 Industry type domestic contracts are prepared by industry bodies for the benefit of the builders. This means that if you are the owner watch out. One of the points is… 0 3226 Thank you so much for the effort. We will use it to talk with builder. We also had idea of building duplex instead and seeking suggest ions. viewtopic.php?f=31&t=106744 11 13835 |