Plumbers and electricians

jezzcb · Jul 01, 2007 9:09 pm

What do we need plumbers and electricians for exactly?

For example, if we already have everything we need for the bathroom can we install the bath, toilet and vanity ourselves? At what point must we bring in a plumber to finish it off? I heard they are also needed for installing the roof. Does this mean the whole roof or just the guttering?

Similarly with the electrician. How much of the wiring of lights and sockets can we do? None? Would I be best off just speaking to the plumbers and electricians? I only worry that they may want to do jobs that I don't need them to do.

Thanks for all the help I have been getting here.

Jezz

ahuang · Jul 01, 2007 10:04 pm

jezzcb

What do we need plumbers and electricians for exactly?

That's a funny question.... If you are like me who don't have relevant license and don't know much about the industry, my answer would be simply to connect the pipes and electricity :lol:

If you are owner builder, knows about lots of things, and hopefully with a license, you don't need them at all!

jezzcb

For example, if we already have everything we need for the bathroom can we install the bath, toilet and vanity ourselves? At what point must we bring in a plumber to finish it off? I heard they are also needed for installing the roof. Does this mean the whole roof or just the guttering?

If you are building with project homes builders, don't even think about it. You are not allowed to touch anything before handover.
If you are owner builder, and you are confident that the inspector/certifier (could be council or pivate one) will be happy with your quality of work, don't see why you can't do those work yourself...
My understanding need plumber for the roof to connect gutters, downpipes to water tanks and other stuffs.

jezzcb

Similarly with the electrician. How much of the wiring of lights and sockets can we do? None? Would I be best off just speaking to the plumbers and electricians? I only worry that they may want to do jobs that I don't need them to do.

Thanks for all the help I have been getting here.

Jezz

Same as above, depending on your situation. With project home builders, you have to decide how many lights and power sockets before everything starts. I also heard that talking to the electrician/plumbers directly to get a few extra stuffs installed will save some money...

Not sure what you mean by "they may want to do jobs that I don't need them to do"...

Hope this helps...

Cheers
Allan
http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/
Current stage: old house demolished, contract signed, waiting for excavation to start...

miagi · Jul 01, 2007 10:55 pm

Hows this for a start if your not an electrician how would you know how to wire your house?

Its Illegal for a very good reason...you would probably kill yourself or worse still kill someone else.

You know people are trade skilled and trained for more reasons than just to give them a reason to bill you for work done. Its because they know what they're doing.

Cookiemonster · Jul 01, 2007 11:01 pm

Straight from the homesite webpage..

http://www.homesite.com.au/rebuild-extend/knockdown-rebuild/tips-and-guides/should-you-become-an-owner-builder

Subcontractors

If you are building your own house you cannot avoid using subcontractors. Even if you intend to do most of the work yourself there are certain jobs such as plumbing and electrical wiring which by law must be completed by licensed professionals.

jezzcb · Jul 01, 2007 11:33 pm

miagi

Hows this for a start if your not an electrician how would you know how to wire your house?

Its Illegal for a very good reason...you would probably kill yourself or worse still kill someone else.

You know people are trade skilled and trained for more reasons than just to give them a reason to bill you for work done. Its because they know what they're doing.

Thanks for the help. :lol:

I understand all that you have said already, it's obvious. My question was about how far I can go before I must call in a professional. I am not denying they have their place. I don't want to do anything illegal and I am not asking why it is illegal. I don't think you read my original question properly. Try again.

If you do have information that answers my question I would like to hear it but try not to be offensive again.

jezzcb · Jul 01, 2007 11:39 pm

ahuang

jezzcb

What do we need plumbers and electricians for exactly?

That's a funny question.... If you are like me who don't have relevant license and don't know much about the industry, my answer would be simply to connect the pipes and electricity :lol:

If you are owner builder, knows about lots of things, and hopefully with a license, you don't need them at all!

jezzcb

For example, if we already have everything we need for the bathroom can we install the bath, toilet and vanity ourselves? At what point must we bring in a plumber to finish it off? I heard they are also needed for installing the roof. Does this mean the whole roof or just the guttering?

If you are building with project homes builders, don't even think about it. You are not allowed to touch anything before handover.
If you are owner builder, and you are confident that the inspector/certifier (could be council or pivate one) will be happy with your quality of work, don't see why you can't do those work yourself...
My understanding need plumber for the roof to connect gutters, downpipes to water tanks and other stuffs.

jezzcb

Similarly with the electrician. How much of the wiring of lights and sockets can we do? None? Would I be best off just speaking to the plumbers and electricians? I only worry that they may want to do jobs that I don't need them to do.

Thanks for all the help I have been getting here.

Jezz

Same as above, depending on your situation. With project home builders, you have to decide how many lights and power sockets before everything starts. I also heard that talking to the electrician/plumbers directly to get a few extra stuffs installed will save some money...

Not sure what you mean by "they may want to do jobs that I don't need them to do"...

Hope this helps...

Cheers
Allan
http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/
Current stage: old house demolished, contract signed, waiting for excavation to start...

Thanks for your reply, Allan. This is the kind of info I was after.

I mention about them wanting to do jobs that they don't need to do because I have already been ripped off by plumbers and electricians on a number of occasions. I would rather know what they are required to do before I ask them how much it will cost.

Thanks again.

Jezz

ahuang · Jul 02, 2007 10:42 am

jezzcb

Thanks for your reply, Allan. This is the kind of info I was after.

I mention about them wanting to do jobs that they don't need to do because I have already been ripped off by plumbers and electricians on a number of occasions. I would rather know what they are required to do before I ask them how much it will cost.

Thanks again.

Jezz

Unfortunately the construction industry is worst compared to any others in ripping people off.

The only way to min chance of been ripped off that I am awared of, is to get at least 3 quotes for everything.

I am in IT and I always thought it's quite bad. But after experienceing so many things, I found it's nothing compared to the construction industry. We have seen quotes that are more than 5 time in difference, these people are greedy!

Cheers
Allan
http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/
Current stage: old house demolished, contract signed, waiting for excavation to start...

Cookiemonster · Jul 02, 2007 11:04 am

ahuang

I am in IT and I always thought it's quite bad. But after experienceing so many things, I found it's nothing compared to the construction industry. We have seen quotes that are more than 5 time in difference, these people are greedy!

One of the worst I've found are concreters. I have a friend in the building industry. He's found most concreters work on a minimum of 100% profit margin.

So that $5000 driveway only actually cost $2500 to build (that includes materials and labour).

jezzcb · Jul 02, 2007 12:11 pm

Ok, so it looks like my best bet is to approach a number of plumbers and electricians and see what the difference is between them.

Thanks so much for the advice.

Jezz

commodorenut · Jul 02, 2007 12:51 pm

If you want to save money on the sparky, talk to them.

I helped out a good mate of mine when they were owner-building a house.

The sparky ran the cables around for the power points, lights, stove etc, and just draped them over the frame. He marked all the top plates & noggins that needed drilling for cables, and we drilled them all & fed the cables through for him.

We also ran all the low voltage - data, phone, alarm etc cabling.

On the floors we marked the power point positions & heights, and after the gyprock was done, we cut all the holes.

He then came back & did all the final fitup.

I dunno how much it would have saved, but we spent nearly a day doing all the drilling & feeding, and a few hours cutting the holes out.

I guess if he was charging say $50/hour, then it would be a saving of at least $500.

3timesbuilda · Jul 02, 2007 1:05 pm

I wonder how much you really did save?

ahuang · Jul 02, 2007 1:24 pm

3timesbuilda

I wonder how much you really did save?

Probably not much when compared to the $ for building the whole house.
The flexibility actually helps a lot. If you go through the builder "formally" after contract sign, that's at least $250 on top of any change + builder's commission. Plus the bad feeling of been ripped off...

Cheers
Allan
http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/
Current stage: old house demolished, contract signed, waiting for excavation to start...

Yak_Chat · Jul 02, 2007 7:24 pm

CM Said

Quote:

One of the worst I've found are concreters. I have a friend in the building industry. He's found most concreters work on a minimum of 100% profit margin.

You know what they say about concrete boots

Michelle · Jul 02, 2007 7:29 pm

I think that was THE most UNSAFE question I have read yet!

I would not want to live in a home that was wired up by someone who didn’t know what they were doing!

Better get yourself a huge insurance! :shock:

Cookiemonster · Jul 02, 2007 7:37 pm

Yak_Chat

CM Said

Quote:

One of the worst I've found are concreters. I have a friend in the building industry. He's found most concreters work on a minimum of 100% profit margin.

You know what they say about concrete boots

In retrospect.. concreters are a great bunch. *gulp*
:oops:

Yak_Chat · Jul 02, 2007 7:38 pm

Jezzb, The main issues here are is you are not going to save much money.
Most sparkys get their trade assistant - ie apprentice to run the wires then the sparky come will fit it off or supervise the fit off with the apprentice.

And while it sounds like - "just ruinning a couple of wires" or pipes, the actuall placement of them is critical to the process.

Pipes in the wrong spot can give you water hammer noise as you turn the tap on or off, wires over the top of a beam is potentially subject to damage in not legal in certain areas etc etc.

Both of these trades are 4 years to learn and many more years to perfect. Do not understimate the job they are doing.

and if you run them in the wrong spot, they have to be redone potentially delaying other trades who rely ont eh wires being in the wall before they fit the gyprock etc etc.

Believe me - tradies sometimes learn to hate cetrtain other tradies because they run stuff in the wrong area, use a spot the plumer was going to use etc etc -you don't want to be that person

And legally you are way out of bounds.
Save money on the garden -

Steve

jezzcb · Jul 03, 2007 12:59 pm

Thanks for all the replies.

I still think I have confused some people with my original question. I don't want to avoid using electricians and plumbers at all because I don't know how to do it. I was just wondering how much of the work I can do before I am legally required to call in a tradesman. At what point of installing a new vanity does the plumber have to come in? Can I at least slide it through the bathroom door for example or must the whole bathroom be an empty shell before he turns up? How much of the roofing can we get done without the plumber?
At what point of our work are we required to hand it over to a tradesman? I don't want to hand it over too soon or too late. But I accept that too soon is better than too late.

Thanks.

Jezz

Cookiemonster · Jul 03, 2007 1:13 pm

Those are the questions I'd be asking the electricians and plumbers when getting quotes.

Yak_Chat · Jul 03, 2007 1:51 pm

As cookie says ask the tradie -

As a guide I had a new hot water system put in and the plumber installed the new one and just disconnected the old one for me - I then ripped it off the wall and cut the unused pipes etc off and tidied up the wall.

Re a new sink, if you dontl; ask them you might put it all in and have it ready for him to connect up - but if he might need to get access without it there so it would be in way -
So he now has to rip it out - then put it back to finish it.

So talk to them and work out where you can help save some dollars but not increase his work load.

Most tradies like doing their trade skills (ie the wires and pipes) and the sheer fitting a sink and the grunt stuff they are normally more than happy to say - cool you do that and I'll do the easy bit and check it when they sign of the project.

Steve

ahuang · Jul 03, 2007 2:50 pm

Michelle

I would not want to live in a home that was wired up by someone who didn’t know what they were doing!

Better get yourself a huge insurance! :shock:

That's why we need building inspectors...

And we are talking about new houses here, the old ones are even worse...

Cheers
Allan
http://building-our-first-house.blogspot.com/
Current stage: old house demolished, contract signed, waiting for excavation to start...