Vic govt changes rules on water tanks

3timesbuilda · Jul 03, 2007 9:45 am

Yak_Chat

You missed my point 3xB.

I said Port Philipp bay to get a response

- but think of it this way

The oceans are all connected and if every country in the world installed massive desal plants , do you think the oceans could maybe get a bit saltier - even if only slightly?

What impact could that have on fish stocks?

Ever drunk bore water that is 200ppm, then 600ppm, 900ppm and 1500ppm. Try it sometime.

I wish you hadn't written this. A bit of research and abstract reasoning would have shown you why.

First, this is a cyclic process, we desalinate, use and then return to the oceans. Nothing new in this.

Now if we take account of the ocean volume (1 300 000 000 cubic kilometers) and deduct the amount of lets say all of Australias potential desal plants - lets say 1000 giga litres (Melb is looking at 150gl). That equates to 1 teralitre or 1 cubic kilometer of water. So (1 / 1 300 000 000) x 100 gives what percent??? 7.69 x 10 to the power of -8 which I think works out to:

0.000 000 076 9 %

I thnk the melt water from global warming will offset this. :lol:

A lot of scare mongering goes on and with the lack of figures, it is easy to be misled by people with alternate agendas.

edit: one too many zeros I think so removed one.

3timesbuilda · Jul 03, 2007 9:48 am

mattwalker

Yak_Chat

(As for Matt - Well.... he will change

Even if it takes 30 years and it's his son who helps him to learn that consumerism is not the all mighty of life

NEVER!!!

I am way to self centered for change.....

I am trying to find a way to disagree, I'll get back to you... :lol:

Yak_Chat · Jul 03, 2007 3:44 pm

Quote:

NEVER!!!
I am way to self centered for change.....

No surprises there

3xb - Obviously I hit a button there :shock:

My only agenda is to promote the thought - We cannot continue to think of water as an unexhaustable resource!!!

I don't have no agenda re desals or salty oceans - nor did I do the salt research - Agreed.

But tell me - do you think it will be totally 100% absolutely no question about it - put your life on it - that there will be 100% NO impact on the water quality or fish stocks located near every desal plants salt water outlet?

Did you know that fish in saltier water grow bigger / abnormally - Talk to a salt farm about their ponds eco cycle which includes exactly this type of fish in the early evaporation ponds!

Yes - I have a reasonable understanding of the impacts of returning water to the ocean as worked on and wrote some water quality monitoring software for a prawn farm in the late 80's - which pulled water from the ocean, cycled it through the farm and sent it back into the tidal creek they pulled it from.

Extra salt will happen - how much impact % wise - very small ?? And how much impact that has globally - well thats debatable and entirely dependant on a whole stack of other things. Agreed

But if forget all that - The reason for the start of this thread by Ed.

was

The govt is changing the rules on water tanks - Which I think is not a good thing :evil:

-

I am positive that rain water tanks help educate people about their water use and the key thing is we need to do -

Is educate people that this resource - WATER - is precious - so lets use it wisely. !!!

De-sal - tanks - dams or otherwise.

Water is a finite resource

It's either in our oceans, our dams, our gardens, the atmosphere, icebergs, underground etc.

We can only transform it.

So let's use it wisely.

Steve
And yes Ed - I misread the orginal articles date - I should have said June 07.

mattwalker · Jul 03, 2007 5:14 pm

Like you didn't see that coming.... :lol:

3timesbuilda · Jul 04, 2007 10:33 am

Yak_Chat

3xb - Obviously I hit a button there :shock:

Yep, one of my pet grumbles. I really enjoy beautiful lush gardens and the idea that we shouldn't be allowed really irks me. I refuse to feel bad because of others (.gov) incompetance. I'll try to cool down a bit.

Yak_Chat

My only agenda is to promote the thought - We cannot continue to think of water as an unexhaustable resource!!!

It is unexhaustable because it is renewable or more accurately recyclable.

Yak_Chat

But tell me - do you think it will be totally 100% absolutely no question about it - put your life on it - that there will be 100% NO impact on the water quality or fish stocks located near every desal plants salt water outlet?

Nope, I agree that there will be some impact of a relativly small nature and in a relatively small area. Compared to most human activities, this will be minor. Taking a single fist trawler off the seas would probably comensate for and entire desal plant. Building a house means that trees are removed, should we not build any new houses and just how realistic is this?

Yak_Chat

So let's use it wisely.

Agreed but also lets not cause unnecessary panic to allow bad agendas to be adopted and lets understand the real nature of the problem - ie. educate.

First_Timer_Ray · Jul 04, 2007 11:37 am

Just a quick question:
Would anyone admit that they would drink the water out of their suburban water tank? I know I certainly wouldn't.
How about bathe in it? Hmmm, maybe at a push.
What about pour it on the ground for plants? Yep, definitely.
Where would the water have gone from the roof anyway?

The fact that a household tank holds 1-5 thousand litres would equate to running a tap for probably 4-5 hrs (I haven't calculated this) - so in terms of a LONG term solution I doubt a household tank will have any impact.

Personally, I'm glad we are getting the solar hot water!

P.S We have not long moved into a brand new rental and I have noticed (with the tank connected to the toilets) that they need cleaning more often - which means more chemicals... and so the ripple effect continues...

Ray.

Yak_Chat · Jul 04, 2007 7:22 pm

Nice Fish !!!!
Hey Matt, would you believe that some people actually fish these "Abnormal fish" from the salt ponds , and now they have to put security guards in the middle of nowhere to stop the fishing becasue it upsets the algal balance !!!

Re the Gardens 3xb - Go live in the tropics - The Bloody things never stop up there

I was mowing twice a week and trimming and weeding forever.!!!!

I'll leave the rest - we are on the same track - Lets just not pollute or waste our water.

FTR
Yes I drink Suburban Rainwater - but my rain comes in from the sea - which comes from Antarctica - Otherwsie I'd just carbon filter it.

Re the Loo - That's one of those things - the lack of clhorine will let alge etc to grow. Just don't use phosphate based cleaners or yes - you're creating a new problem that is a soluton to another :shock:

Re the tank - it's more and education thing - if you have to manually fill the tank everytime you've emptied it - then it makes you think - hmm we're using a lot of water this month. I used to have a house with a bore that filled the house rainwater tank - it was a good way to remind us on how much water we were using.
Steve

First_Timer_Ray · Jul 04, 2007 7:34 pm

Yak_Chat - I notice you're in Adelaide... any sort of water would have to be better than your tap water, right? :lol:

- J/K.

Yak_Chat · Jul 05, 2007 11:31 am

Actually my tap water is quite OK.

Adelaide's town water is better than what I have heard it used to be :shock:

But it is still supplied from a combination of sources, ie dams topped up from the murray - then filtered etc,
And we also have many different dams and water sources - north and south ofthe city - so it changes across the city.
My plumber told me my area was one one and things in my house - plumbing wise - would last pretty well- other suburbs - well they are not so good.

But like the old saying goes -
WATER - You know what fish do in it - how could you drink it

Steve

stonecutter1309 · Jul 05, 2007 12:52 pm

Just install a Reverse-osmosis water filter - don't need to worry about incoming water quality then

charlie0000 · Feb 01, 2009 7:53 pm

Has anyone mentioned anything about recycled water????

I know I wouldnt' have a problem with it, although some people are a bit precious over the subject. I've been told (correct me if i'm wrong) that recycled water is just as if not cleaner than some current water supplies?

Some questions and suggested answers:

Why stage 3A for Melbourne....?
A. authorities may lose too much money from industry use?

Cheaper to build, Desal or Recycle?
A. Recylce?

Do Brumby & co realise there are people living in Victoria apart from Melbourne?
A. I don't think so.....!!

to_do_list · Feb 02, 2009 6:38 pm

charlie0000

I know I wouldnt' have a problem with it, although some people are a bit precious over the subject. I've been told (correct me if i'm wrong) that recycled water is just as if not cleaner than some current water supplies?

Some questions and suggested answers:

Why stage 3A for Melbourne....?
A. authorities may lose too much money from industry use?

A higher restriction would start to impact on certain business...nurseries, car washing, pools, and spas...the economic costs of this would be significant let alone the estimated 20,000 jobs that would be at risk in Victoria...evidence from the experience in south-eastern QLD suggests that the "Target 155" campaign...basically a voluntary information campaign should have about the same affect as going to full on Stage 4 restrictions.

charlie0000

Cheaper to build, Desal or Recycle?
A. Recylce?

There is a significant water quality control issue with recycling compared to desalination. With desalination from seawater you only have to worry about one "pollutant" - salt. The amount of salt in seawater is known and varies only within a tight range. Furthermore the technologies available to remove salt are tried and proven...nationally as well as internationally.

With recycled water there is a myriad of pollutants you need to worry about because it comes across the urban environment...everything from salt, industrial solvents and chemicals, pesticides, and herbicides. There are some herbicides created by chemical companies in the western suburbs of Melbourne which are active when only in concentrations of several parts per billion...below the level at which they can detected. Some of these pollutants require different methods of removal or we don't have effective means for removing them.

This is why sewage is the preferred recycled water source because the catchment is more controlled and the water inflow quality is more predictable. Even so you can get illegal connections, dumping of toxic materials, which can impact on water chemistry. And "poo-water" is a difficult politcal sell - not that that should stop it.

charlie0000

Do Brumby & co realise there are people living in Victoria apart from Melbourne?
A. I don't think so.....!!

If you are referring to the north-south pipeline project then the basis for the project is that water that would go to waste through irrigation system inefficiency is saved. By Melbourne contributing to this project - to the tune of $1 billion + - it buys a right to a proportion of the water that would be "lost". Both sides of the debate can present sound and defensible arguments as to why this may or not be equitable.

James Bond · Feb 02, 2009 8:52 pm

I drank recycled water for 38 years of my life in England. My Dad has drunk it for 82 years of his life.

It tasted the same as any other water.

I am amazed any city with a water challenge like Melbourne doesn't recycle. London, where I lived for 20 years, has very similar annual rainfall figures to Melbourne, however that rainfall has to support about 12 million people. But London does not need a desal plant.....the water is recycled.

JB