Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Oct 12, 2009 11:12 pm So we need to pick a hot water system. The house comes with a Rheem Stellar 165L gas HWS, but I want to consider solar with gas boost (not instantaneous). Are these more expensive? and if so, by how much. are they good? Any particular models that are recommended, and are there any other considerations? Regards Re: Hot Water system options 2Oct 13, 2009 7:15 am Yes, they're more expensive - but obviously cheaper to run. Prices vary depending on builder, location, and size of the unit, plus how many solar panels are required. We paid a hefty $4000 for ours, but it's a pretty big unit. It's lovely to have hot water that never runs out and also to know that heating it is costing us nothing for a good chunk of the year. Re: Hot Water system options 3Oct 13, 2009 9:55 am The builder I was going to use was going to charge an extra $5,900 above the standard Rheem 330 litre gas unit for a "Rheem 511430 Lo-line solar" 300 litre. Their constant greed is a major factor in deciding to dump them. Re: Hot Water system options 4Oct 13, 2009 11:15 am A few calculations have told me, that whilst solar is the most efficient, it would be beyond it's life span to repay itself, over the regular Instantaneous gas booster. So I think that instantaneous gas booster is the way to go now, but I have a few concerns. The unit i'm considering is the Rinnai Infinity 26. 1) Water takes a while to get hot? Possible wastage of litres of water every time we use the showers 2) With water saving taps the norm these days, the low flow rates are sometimes not enough to trigger the pilot. If we were trying to use a little bit of hot water (ie. not at high pressure), it will simply give us cold water. Possibly an issue when using mixer taps? Have these issues been addressed recently, and if not, are there any work arounds? What is the general consensus on these instantaneous systems? For those of you with infinity systems, which one do you have, and how many people in the family? Do they work well with two showers running at the same time. Regards Re: Hot Water system options 5Oct 13, 2009 11:37 am Isn't it crazy that the government rebates for solar hot water don't apply to a new house. I wonder how long after living in a house you can get an ordinary hot water system upgraded with a rebated solar? Re: Hot Water system options 6Oct 13, 2009 8:52 pm cyberman Isn't it crazy that the government rebates for solar hot water don't apply to a new house. I wonder how long after living in a house you can get an ordinary hot water system upgraded with a rebated solar? Yeh, i can't understand the logic behind that at all... Ah well, looks like continuous flow is the way to go, hope I get a good one! Re: Hot Water system options 7Oct 15, 2009 7:13 pm Hi Deeps. hope this helps if you haven't come across it yet. Circulates your cold unused water. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/ with a standard storage unit on a new home, it must be installed for 12 months before you can replace your existing swh and be eligible for the rebates. if its solar, then 5 years for an existing solar before being able to replace it. hope this helps. Re: Hot Water system options 8Oct 15, 2009 7:26 pm deeps A few calculations have told me, that whilst solar is the most efficient, it would be beyond it's life span to repay itself, over the regular Instantaneous gas booster. So I think that instantaneous gas booster is the way to go now, but I have a few concerns. The unit i'm considering is the Rinnai Infinity 26. 1) Water takes a while to get hot? Possible wastage of litres of water every time we use the showers 2) With water saving taps the norm these days, the low flow rates are sometimes not enough to trigger the pilot. If we were trying to use a little bit of hot water (ie. not at high pressure), it will simply give us cold water. Possibly an issue when using mixer taps? Have these issues been addressed recently, and if not, are there any work arounds? What is the general consensus on these instantaneous systems? For those of you with infinity systems, which one do you have, and how many people in the family? Do they work well with two showers running at the same time. Regards It's not just about the cost - although keep in mind that gas and electricity are likely to get VERY expensive over the coming years - but there are also environmental considerations... Anyway: 1. Water should be instantly hot, but if your house is big and the HWS is a fair distance from the tap, you'll be waiting....and waiting.... no matter what kind of HWS you have. cyberman Isn't it crazy that the government rebates for solar hot water don't apply to a new house. I wonder how long after living in a house you can get an ordinary hot water system upgraded with a rebated solar? The way I understand it, the rebates DO apply. But whoever buys the unit gets the rebate, therefore the builder claims it and passes it on to the customer in reduced costs. Supposedly. They should also pass on the renewable energy credits that they get... Re: Hot Water system options 9Oct 15, 2009 7:39 pm Hi Kek You are right there is a form of rebate available when installing a solar water heater on a new house but they are only REC's renewable energy certificates available for new houses. who knows if the builders pass this deduction onto the consumers. you would hope they do. Depending on the size of the system and it's efficiency based on tests, a system can be eligible a decent number of REC's. On established homes, (in victoria) there are state/vic government rebates available when replacing an existing gas water heater, REC's and VEEC's (victorian energy efficiency certificates). also a federal $1600 rebate available only when replacing an existing electric water heater. the only problem with the rebates is that they have dropped them in the past 2 months and the REC's have dropped dramtically in the last few weeks. I can only suggest to those purchasing their own systems is possible hold onto your RECs before assigning them over. as soon as the price increases. you have 12 months from installation to assign your REC's. Re: Hot Water system options 10Oct 15, 2009 9:23 pm howdy we had to go there because of our BASIX in NSW. We decided to go for evacuated tube technology. this is one of the better technologies available in that the angle of the incident sunlight is not important. Other technologies provide maximum heat effect when the Sun is directly overhead. http://www.hillssolar.com.au/arbitrage/pages/79 There are 4 of us (3 males) and we have gone for a 315 litre, gas boosted unit with thirty tubes, we should never run out. Our house is directly north facing. Good luck Dan Re: Hot Water system options 11Oct 20, 2009 6:56 pm So got the pricing back today $600 extra to upgrade from a Rheem Stellar 160L to a Rheem 26plus with 1 universal controller.... Seems quite excessive to me, was hoping to keep it very much in the same ballpark. So does anyone think it's worth it? HOw long will it take to break even? Re: Hot Water system options 13Oct 21, 2009 12:14 pm deeps $600 extra to upgrade from a Rheem Stellar 160L to a Rheem 26plus with 1 universal controller.... The 26Plus is an instantaneous gas hot water unit. I would not pay $600 extra for it. Instananeous Instantaneous Gas Hot Water Systems are not the best option. They are 'big' in Japan because they are small in size. And space is a premium there. Rinnai have marketed Instantaneous systems in Australia wonderfully.... even making them 'sexy' with temperature touch controllers. They have made HWS a high involvement purchase where HWS was once very low involvement. In response, Rheem (a Japenese owned company) introduced their versions and others too have followed. However, these systems have big draw backs. They are OK for small homes (great for flats) where space is tight. They are relatively expensive. They don't cope well with high water demands (they will limit the water flow in order to heat the extra volume). There are better systems for local conditions. A mains pressure gas storage hot water system is much better (lower purchase cost too) and a solar bosted gas storage hot water system is even better. With RECS and rebates.... not that costly. I would not install an Instantaneous Gas HWS in my house. Had the builder included it, I would have even paid to have it changed. However, having said all that..... the decision on what HWS to select is not always a rational one. Re: Hot Water system options 14Oct 21, 2009 3:12 pm I'm just been speaking to someone at the appropriate federal government department for Federal rebates for solar hot water systems (on 1800 808 571). Apparently the federal rebate is not available for houses built after (some time in) 2003 because houses approved since then had to meet energy efficiency guidelines. Now we know. Re: Hot Water system options 15Jan 11, 2010 12:47 pm [quote="rubber_noggin Instantaneous Gas Hot Water Systems are not the best option. They are 'big' in Japan because they are small in size. And space is a premium there. Rinnai have marketed Instantaneous systems in Australia wonderfully.[/quote] Hi rubber_noggin, I'm going to build a 50sq , 4 bathrooms, the builder will give me a 26 litres Rheem Instantenous. Reading your opinion made me scared that the Rheem HWS is not going to work for our house. Do you think I should upgrade to a bigger one, 32litres, or just add 2nd HWS (another 26 ltrs)? Or just changed completely to Stellar 5 star HWS /Solar ? Thanks. Waiting for 2010 Land registration.... Re: Hot Water system options 16Jan 11, 2010 1:15 pm My vote is for a HWS with storage capacity. If you are building a 5 bedroom house than I would assume you will have a large family (now or in the near future) and the demand for hot water will easily outstrip supply if it is being heated instaneously. We have 5 people in our household (3 bathrooms) and have a 315l HWS. Re: Hot Water system options 17Jan 11, 2010 2:51 pm also factor into your equation if you are on natural gas or not. bottled gas is very expensive in comparison to natural Blog - http://snakedr.blogspot.com/ Build Thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12084&p=307406#p307406 Status - PCI 15/10. Things nearly done. Re: Hot Water system options 18Jan 11, 2010 2:54 pm jazzeco Hi Deeps. hope this helps if you haven't come across it yet. Circulates your cold unused water. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/ with a standard storage unit on a new home, it must be installed for 12 months before you can replace your existing swh and be eligible for the rebates. if its solar, then 5 years for an existing solar before being able to replace it. hope this helps. are those chilipepperapps available in australia? i was always interested to see what one would cost, our hot water system is no where near where it should be and it takes close to a minute for hot water to get to the taps. Blog - http://snakedr.blogspot.com/ Build Thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12084&p=307406#p307406 Status - PCI 15/10. Things nearly done. Re: Hot Water system options 19Jan 11, 2010 3:21 pm billdsl jazzeco Hi Deeps. hope this helps if you haven't come across it yet. Circulates your cold unused water. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/ with a standard storage unit on a new home, it must be installed for 12 months before you can replace your existing swh and be eligible for the rebates. if its solar, then 5 years for an existing solar before being able to replace it. hope this helps. are those chilipepperapps available in australia? i was always interested to see what one would cost, our hot water system is no where near where it should be and it takes close to a minute for hot water to get to the taps. Matt installed one - different brand, but same thing. He was happy with it - there's a thread somewhere, plus it's all detailed on his blog. Edit - the thread is here: http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24034 Re: Hot Water system options 20Jan 11, 2010 3:26 pm kek billdsl jazzeco Hi Deeps. hope this helps if you haven't come across it yet. Circulates your cold unused water. http://www.chilipepperapp.com/ with a standard storage unit on a new home, it must be installed for 12 months before you can replace your existing swh and be eligible for the rebates. if its solar, then 5 years for an existing solar before being able to replace it. hope this helps. are those chilipepperapps available in australia? i was always interested to see what one would cost, our hot water system is no where near where it should be and it takes close to a minute for hot water to get to the taps. Matt installed one - different brand, but same thing. He was happy with it - there's a thread somewhere, plus it's all detailed on his blog. Edit - the thread is here: http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24034 I've always wondered how the cold water return is piped back to your HWS with those chilipepper thingos. Do you need to run a completely new pipe to the HWS inlet to install one of these ? 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