Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 301Dec 02, 2010 11:49 pm Hey Shelz I was on the phone with PD sometimes 2,3 -4 times a day. After awhile, when I called up, the girl on the switchboard knew my voice straight away... Here's a hint , when they say " we'll get someone to call you back ", ask when?, what time..? or better still, do what I do, TELL THEM a time to call you ( I normally requested a call within 1-2hrs ) if they don't call, I'd be on the phone straight away. After awhile they'll get it in their heads that you're not backing down. AND don't be afraid to call their bluff ( I like using " that's bullsh!t " phrase) see them take a step back, and then DROP the notion to " M " that you are thinking of getting a INDEPENDANT ASSESSOR out Sprinkle abit of b!tchy, it can do wonders Arnolds Creek AL ( aka Barbara from Bank-World ) Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 302Dec 03, 2010 6:32 am penny77 We have done our backyard and front yard and have concrete going right around the house and we still have way more movement than I think for a house that is 9 months old too. When I said my unit never had any cracks and the builder was ******* the supervisor wouldn't answer me and just said it is due to the weather hmmmmmm, I wonder what the quality of materials they are using. Its so nice to hear from ya Penny, even under these circumstances This is why I wish I woulda done concrete & landscaping though so they couldn't blame us for the problem! Although, they would use the weather as an excuse like they have with you. I have no doubt the Melbourne weather is accelerating the problem but they are the pro's here and don't they think they would need to create a foundation that can withstand all sorts of weather!! Let me tell you its definitely a case of they have our money now & dont give a f**k cause iv been ringing and leaving messages left right & centre and not one call back or email! The thing is, I reckon if they continue to not admit responsibility it'l be more due to the fact that this situation is in the to hard basket then the financial expense of it all. I mean, if it is a major foundations/footings issue, what are they gonna do? Tear the whole house down and start again! Aaaaargh Im sooo damn frustrated! What an awesome Chrissy present!!!! Arnolds Creek AL Arnolds Creek AL ( aka Barbara from Bank-World ) I love it!! Thats hubby's favorite advert Everyone that I speak to (family, friends & work collegues) seem to have the opinion that they will fix it cause they have to but they dont know what these b*stards can be like! Penny have you checked the 25yr structural warranty exclusions? Slab heavage due to changes in soil conditions is an exlusion! Its on the back page of the guarantee. im sure thats what they will try to fall back on! Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 303Dec 03, 2010 11:04 am I am shocked by what has happened. It must be devestating for you. A house is a huge investment and "M" are not cheap houses. I really hope you get it sorted soon. Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 304Dec 03, 2010 2:37 pm Tamara1975 I am shocked by what has happened. It must be devestating for you. A house is a huge investment and "M" are not cheap houses. I really hope you get it sorted soon. Thanks Tamara Well, I have an update! The maintenance manager has said that he is arranging for someone to come out and check that none of the pipes have broken, which may be causing the damage if there is excessive water getting under or leaking through the slab! Actually, i don't even know if this is what he meant because Hubby spoke to him and by the time the message gets passed back to me it makes no sense Anyway, if there are no leaks then we are to apparrently concrete around the house and the house should settle back to normal! They will then fix all the internal damage! So he say's?????? So lets wait and see what happens from here Btw, he didnt ring us. No one has. Hubby had to follow up with him, again!!! We are in rainy Melbourne and I wouldn't imagine a concreter would even be able to do anything until the soil drys out a little. So god knows when we will be able to get this done but hubby is ring around for quotes now. Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 305Dec 03, 2010 3:10 pm Not having the landscaping done sounds like crap to me....not everyone has the finances straight away to do it....so i guess all those house will be falling apart too... Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 306Dec 03, 2010 3:23 pm Hi Shelz, Glad to hear that there could be a solution but I agree that it doesn't sound right that the landscaping must be done to fix the problem (I also think its unlikely that there are broken pipes). I'd suggest getting DH to put into writing what the Maintenance Manager has said to him during their conversation and send a copy to M so that it is documented - I'd also be asking M list their proposed rectification works in writing too. I'd also still be getting that independent assessor/inspection - afterall the 'soil' conditions haven't changed - only the weather - the slab should be able to cope with that (based on previous photos it does not appear that you have drainage issues around your house). When it rains does water drain away from the house or towards the house? I think if you had done your landscaping they'd be blaming that... Good luck and keep us posted. Never argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level & then beat you with experience - Dilbert View Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19733 Contract signed 14Sept Slab 30Sept Bricks laid 1Dec Lock up 26Feb Keys 10Jun Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 307Dec 04, 2010 8:29 am emilygirl Not having the landscaping done sounds like crap to me....not everyone has the finances straight away to do it....so i guess all those house will be falling apart too... Thats exactly what I thought! MrsRose I'd also still be getting that independent assessor/inspection - afterall the 'soil' conditions haven't changed - only the weather - the slab should be able to cope with that (based on previous photos it does not appear that you have drainage issues around your house). When it rains does water drain away from the house or towards the house? I think if you had done your landscaping they'd be blaming that... Funny you say that about the drainage! M has been saying all along that because we haven't done concrete the water will be pooling near the footings and affecting the slab but then yesterday hubby rang the maintenance manager back and asked him if we should have had siltpits installed! Id never even heard of these until mum asked me if we had them the other week! What we do have are pipes around the house that are still sealed (no grill on top) and i can only assume that these were meant to be drainage pits (silpits). Anyway, hubby rang the manager back and asked if thats what these were meant to be and he said "NO on a property like ours they are not required because the land is so flat that there shouldnt be a drainage issue as the water shouldnt pool near the slab"! He went on to say that the pipes around the house are just inspection holes"!! WHAT THE???? So whats the deal? Do we have a drainage issue or not?? Does the water pool near the slab or not?? Infact the house is raised higher than the soil and the water does run off. Thats why I do not think this has anything to do with the lack of concrete! He has pretty much said that himself now! I only wish it was in writing! Il definitely be getting an independant inspection done before I do an ounce of landscaping because I do not want my landscaping or "soil change" to then void the warranty! Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 308Dec 04, 2010 8:31 am Does anyone know of or can a recommend a good inspector or assessor that we can contact? What type of assessor do you contact in these situations? Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 309Dec 05, 2010 7:56 pm Shelz, what a horrible experience you are going through. I can't help you with your direct questions from your above post, but what I can offer you is this, although it is only my opinion. Can you have a look at your contract and find out what classification your slab is? Most houses have a 'Class M' slab, which is built to a certain standard for normal conditions, ie Moderately reactive soil. The more heavy duty slab is a 'Class H' for Highly reactive soil. If the ground around your house needs so much extra attention due to its potential movement, or reactivity, YOUR BUILDER SHOULD HAVE LAID A CLASS H SLAB WITH APPROPRIATE FOOTINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! It is absolute rubbish that your lack of landscaping or paths has had anything to do with the movement in your house. Nothing you could have done around your house would have prevented this damage, even laying a comparatively thin concrete path all the way around it, it would only have prevented damage to the ground itself. Maybe. Just think, what would happen if you had paths all around your house, but the ground gets wet next to them. Does that mean you should expect your paths to crack too? May as well lay concrete all the way to your fences then! You might recall that we had the same builder. We have a normal 'Class M' slab on heavy clay soil, and the slab sits quite high on the ground. Apart from the normal cornice and architrave cracking that was fixed up at 3 months, our house is structurally sound. Around the house we have a combination of concrete (driveway and portico), a rock garden on the existing soil, pebbles and pavers on crushed rock compacted next to the house, a garden with fresh soil and mulch, and a deck over the existing bare ground. There was absolutely no difference between cornice/architrave cracking depending on what was on the other side of the brick wall. At the end of the day your builder is bound to comply with their structural guarantee. Of course they will try and get out of it, so don't let up. Good luck! Geoff - Decophile. Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 310Dec 06, 2010 12:58 am OMG Shelz, I'm super sorry your having to go through this nightmare. We've been in our house for three months now, and we've had no cracking at all internally, I really thought we would have, there are a few little cracks in the mortar outside, but nothing worth complaining about. Not sure if it has anything to do with it, but we had an independent inspector at PCI who went over our home thoroughly before we moved in, and one noticeable difference between ours, and all the other houses around here, is that our weep holes are three courses up, when everyone else's in the area are either in the first course, or second. Apparently our builder made the decision that due to the highly reactive clay soil we all have, that guidelines state that brickwork and weep holes need to be a certain distance up from where the soil sits, so not sure if that even relates here, but thought it might be worth a mention. We haven't really begun landscaping either, apart from our front yard. We did however have our blocked filled with clean fill and levelled (thanks to the lovely guys who are developing the next stages) but apart from the little things that the builder needs to fix, we've had no problems with our house at all. even with all the storms that have hit Melton. My uncle, who built with PD in Point Cook a year or so ago, he had the same type of damage to his home, walls partially crumbling where the insulation was in fact falling down through the ceiling, his windows were warping, ended up being cracked pipes under his slab. I don't think it's our soil, but I'll ask my neighbours who have been living in their places for around six months or so now, to see if they're having any problems. Do you have any photos of your slab at that stage? Maybe we can all compare notes, so to speak. I'm really sorry your having to go through all of this, when you should be enjoying your new home. Dear J.K. Rowling, Your books are entirely unrealistic. I mean, a ginger kid with two friends? Sincerely, Anonymous Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 311Dec 06, 2010 6:26 am Shelz Does anyone know of or can a recommend a good inspector or assessor that we can contact? What type of assessor do you contact in these situations? Hi Shelz, Disclaimer first - I'm no expert.... just my opinion. Can't recommend anyone but I think you have 2 options - private building inspector or residential structural engineer - but it depends on what is causing the problems... I think alot of people in Melbourne have used a guy called Kevin? - some links to threads below - maybe you could give some of the recommended people a call to see if they can help... http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29027&start=0&hilit=kevin http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37636&hilit=kevin Ultimately, I think (see disclaimer above) it needs to be determined if your house was built according to the plans & Aust building code or if the plans were insufficient for the site requirements. Either way if M says that concrete around the perimeter is necessary then they should be paying for it (and only if you were planning on having the concrete and are happy to get it done). Cheers C edit - typo Never argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level & then beat you with experience - Dilbert View Thread: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19733 Contract signed 14Sept Slab 30Sept Bricks laid 1Dec Lock up 26Feb Keys 10Jun Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 312Dec 06, 2010 7:52 am So shocked to come across this and really sorry for you. I'm a first timer on this thread and am going back to your slab stage pages. Seems like you haven't taken any pics of the formwork (the boxing up, just before the pour)? A few more Qs ... key words underlined. I'm not quite clear with your site works - is there any fill at all on these blocks (not just yours)? Can you post your Site Plan with all the contours (levels)? I understand your soil class is H (not M) - is that correct? Also unclear is the slab type - is it raft or waffle pod? You mentioned waffle on page 3 of thsi thread, but now you seem to be saying it's raft. There is a significant difference b/w the two. Do you have any piers at all under the slab? (Piers are just concreted holes in the ground, about 40-45 cm in diameter, depth depends on the soil, they typically go right around the perimeter of the house, under the external brick walls). Finally (and you might have posted this, but I'm only up to page 3) - do you have any pics of your house+block when it rains? Where are the puddles of water located (if any)? Even though your slab is thick and not flush with the surrounding soil, it looks to me that water doesn't drain away from these sites, but it rather sits around the houses because the general contours of the whole area are quite flat - could this be true (it looks like that to me from your early pics) ? As MrsRose said a few times, I would get onto some inspectors ASAP. As she already said, for Melbourne there is The Big Kev; also you might call Alex from Urban (he used to be a member here). And get all comments from the builder acknowledged in writing. EDIT: Just scanned thr'u the rest and noticed that you already had the driveway done, well before the handover!!! So, it's even stranger (although fairly 'expectable' ) that they would try to blame your 'lack of landscaping'. I think that you would have had to concrete about 1-1.5 meters wide paths all around the perimeter, slope them, and on top of that, place draining channels all around the house and drain them all to kerb - so is the overall terrain of your area flat (Warning - I am no expert in this and this is more like a sarcastic comment)!! How are your next door neighbours (on all sides) coping? Same issues?? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 313Dec 06, 2010 5:01 pm Hi Everyone, Thank you for all your replies Eager Can you have a look at your contract and find out what classification your slab is? Most houses have a 'Class M' slab, which is built to a certain standard for normal conditions, ie Moderately reactive soil. The more heavy duty slab is a 'Class H' for Highly reactive soil. If the ground around your house needs so much extra attention due to its potential movement, or reactivity, YOUR BUILDER SHOULD HAVE LAID A CLASS H SLAB WITH APPROPRIATE FOOTINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! Thanks for the above info Eager! I was always under the impression that we were given an H class slab as that is what is required on all our soil reports & engineer reports and on the M home site costings! However, your post motivated me to go back through the New home contract page for page and guess what? Under our site specifications is an M class slab!!!!! I do recall (although it was 2years ago now) raising this at the contract signing appointment but we were verbally reassured that we were getting a H class! I have now emailed this concern to the maintenance manager and we will wait & see what his reply to this will be! Another concern we have is whether or not 'Damp course' has been added pre bricking! My progress photos don't show any at all but hubby raised this with the manager and he advised hubby to have a look through the weep holes and we should be able to see it! Hubby reckons he can see it but I dont know!! The Little Misses My uncle, who built with PD in Point Cook a year or so ago, he had the same type of damage to his home, walls partially crumbling where the insulation was in fact falling down through the ceiling, his windows were warping, ended up being cracked pipes under his slab. Hey Little misses, I read the post you left on our Arnolds creek thread aswell! Thanks M is saying they are gonna have someone come out and inspect the pipes to ensure they are not broken, so we'l wait & see! What did they do to rectify your uncles place in this situation? MrsRose Can't recommend anyone but I think you have 2 options - private building inspector or residential structural engineer - but it depends on what is causing the problems... I think alot of people in Melbourne have used a guy called Kevin? - some links to threads below - maybe you could give some of the recommended people a call to see if they can help... Hey Mrs Rose, We used Kevin's firm during our build for a pre plaster inspection and according to that report there were no major issues. Hubby contacted them today and Kevin is meant to be getting back to us with a structural engineers details that he highly recommends. Thanks for your info Lex I'm a first timer on this thread and am going back to your slab stage pages. Seems like you haven't taken any pics of the formwork (the boxing up, just before the pour)? Hi Lex, Welcome to my currently not so happy thread I didnt take any photo's of the pre pour because we lived an hour away at the time and I couldnt get out to the property untill the weekend, so all I got to see was the finished slab! It is a waffle pod. (cant recall mentioning raft anywhere but Im still in a state of shock so who knows!) Soil class is H and no piers mentioned anywhere in our contracts! Our property had virtually no cut and fill as it it flat land, it even states this in the soil report. They handed the home to us with soil mounded up the sides of the house right up to were the slab and bricks meet, so you cant actually see the slab. I have reason to believe that they have done this to hide the concrete blow outs all around the slab that kevin's firm picked up on and requested they have carefully rectified. This apparantly will pose problems for us with future landscaping. The reason there are these blowouts is because the slab wasn't boxed correctly atleast that is what is stated on our preplaster inspection report! We had unfortunately overlooked this & forgot all about checking it prior to handover! The water does run off the mounded soil, so it doesnt actually sit at the footings as far as i could see but I am waiting on the next down pour so we can have photo and video evidence of this! Next door neighbours have got no problems, not one crack! Neither does a close friend of mine who lives in the same street 30 houses up! So now I just wait to see what M comes back with & Il wait to recieve the structural engineers number to proceed ahead with that! BTW we are now showering in the back bathroom because the silicone joins have split in our ensuite shower & we have been advised by a friend in the building industry to not touch it as the membrane underneath the shower tiles could also be cracked. This could cause water damage to the frame. Dont know how true this is but we dont wanna risk it. Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 314Dec 06, 2010 6:32 pm Hi Shelz, Good that you have already engaged Kevin and that you're getting some real expert help, hope it all gets sorted. You are right, the raft was actually Stormy's slab but in all the shock during reading all of this I mixed it up as being yours - sorry for the false alarm . Also good that you are taking all the precautions you can think of, like which shower to use. Best of luck with all of this !! My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 315Dec 06, 2010 11:24 pm Hey everyone. Awhile back I called the BAC, in the hope of getting some reassuring legal advise on what to do about PD, and the concerns I had about the end building result. I was under the assumption, that BAC would send out their OWN Independant Assessor, but NO.. I was told that I need to find someone, and they will then take the information that the Independant assessor has made & MEDIATE between our builder and us, and hope to come to a result, also if they find FAULT with PD, then they will severley fine them.. As for compensation etc for us, we would have to take PD to court.. WTF So not only did we have to pay hundred's of thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$ to build our home, we also have to pay even more for: Independant assessor AND Court fees As Barb from Bank-world would say " NOT MY PROBLEM " AL Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 316Dec 07, 2010 7:10 am Arnolds Creek AL Awhile back I called the BAC, in the hope of getting some reassuring legal advise on what to do about PD, and the concerns I had about the end building result. I was under the assumption, that BAC would send out their OWN Independant Assessor, but NO.. I was told that I need to find someone, and they will then take the information that the Independant assessor has made & MEDIATE between our builder and us, and hope to come to a result, also if they find FAULT with PD, then they will severley fine them.. As for compensation etc for us, we would have to take PD to court.. WTF So not only did we have to pay hundred's of thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$ to build our home, we also have to pay even more for: Independant assessor AND Court fees As Barb from Bank-world would say " NOT MY PROBLEM " Unreal!!! We are stuck paying the $300k odd mortgage on a dodgie home for the next 30years and they get away with it scot free apart from a measley little fine! And this from Victorias 2 leading builders!!!! There really is no justice in this world!!!!! Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 317Dec 15, 2010 9:09 am How have you gone? Any help from M? We have them coming out today to fix the doors that won't close and a few cracks. Hoping they looked at our cracked bricks at the front of the house. How would have thought a brand new house would have so many cracks...... Forum thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=22300 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 318Dec 15, 2010 7:32 pm penny77 How have you gone? Any help from M? We have them coming out today to fix the doors that won't close and a few cracks. Hoping they looked at our cracked bricks at the front of the house. How would have thought a brand new house would have so many cracks...... Hey Penny, We just seem to be going round and round in circles at the moment! They have discovered a brocken pipe but its on the opposite side of were the damage is on the house. The guy that came to check the pipes said it wasnt that thats causing our problems. The pipe only had a very small leak and it would have taken years to cause any structural issues. M are now saying that they will get someone out to fix this in the new year because they are about 8 weeks behind with everything else. Also, after constantly calling them and not accepting the landscaping thing as an excuse they have said (verbally mind you, not in writing) that they may have to check the slab levels. If there is an issue with the slab then they will have to do underpinning! In the meantime, we have advised M that we were getting a structural engineer out and they said that they will not accept anything that doesn't have slab levels listed. We have called Arci center and they do not do slab levels and we have rang a few structural engineers. Some were very very costly (we'r talking a few thousand ) and the others said that you will have a problem finding any engineer that would help us because these issues usually drag on with a builder for years! We are gutted at the moment and have no idea what to do from here????? I finally now have the funds to do our landscaping and to install our evaporative aircon but we can't do anything untill we get the all clear from someone that the house is safe!!!!! Building: Santorini 26 with M*tricon Where:VIC Site Cut 29/09/09 Slab Complete 09/10/09 Frame Complete 22/10/09 LockUp Complete 17/11/09 Fixing Complete 03/12/09 **My Thread:[/i] viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23110 Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 319Dec 16, 2010 1:48 am I actually mentioned what's happening with your house to my site supervisor, who visited us yesterday. I've been so anal about checking for cracks now too, and found a doozie outside along our mortar. It's the only one we have, but it's cracked along about a 60cm section just under our weep holes, where the flashing is. On that wall, we have an outdoor tap, and that's where the ants have been getting in in droves. Being a little dipsy, I asked our SS is the problem could be serious and mentioned to him about what your going through and what M has said. He thinks M are basically full of it, and the cracks have nothing to do with the location. Are they still getting worse? We still don't have any internal cracking, but our cornices on one wall have bubbled but that is a poor quality product apparently. I don't understand what they mean by slab levels though. Are they checking if your slab isn't thick enough or that it's all even? I thought all H class slabs would need to be the same thickness as a standard, are they saying the might have buggered it up? Dear J.K. Rowling, Your books are entirely unrealistic. I mean, a ginger kid with two friends? Sincerely, Anonymous Re: Another Santorini 26 by *M*-Dream turning into a NIGHTMA 320Dec 16, 2010 6:04 am Hi Shelz, Good to hear an update - even though there's not much news. At least things are still in motion and they are now talking possible solutions instead of just blaming you for the lack of landscaping. I was going to ask the same q. as Penny, though - what do you mean by "slab levels"? And how do they check slab levels? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... I use Tramex moisture meter and it will tell me instantly if the wall is cement sheet or plaster or masonite but most people dont have the equipment. 5 7062 the step up is 30mm and wanting it to be flat . how much does the concrete have to be lowered .we plan on removing bath and lenghten shower and adding seat. the old bath… 0 11829 8 6119 |