Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 31, 2009 2:07 am Has anyone installed the newer type of down light? They look the same but have an energy saving fluorescent bulb in them. They are 240 volt and can not have a dimmer on them. The lighting place said they don’t get as hot as the others and are much brighter, last longer and are cheaper to run. They are around $25 each. I think I will change to these. Any comments on the heat & safety factor of down lights. King Willy…………. “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 2Jul 31, 2009 6:56 am We have selected the fluroscent downlights. I have seen these types in a new home before and must say they don't seem to be as bright and vibrant as your traditional 12v downlights. They also take a few minutes to reach optimum brightness levels. Can always change over if we arent happy with them. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 3Jul 31, 2009 7:16 am I assume you mean the compact fluoro downlights which are a similar size to the halogens? I went down this path a few months ago and decided to stick with the halogens. The CFLs are more of a flood light and not as directional so they are not extremely practical for task lighting, for a kitchen bench for instance. General lighting in a lounge room they would be sufficient however you will find that you need to install a lot more to have comparable light levels. There is a P & J Constructions display home in Lyndhurst (Marriott Waters) that has them installed, the only one I have found so far. You will see what I mean by how many are installed and it still feels dull. This website has a pdf link Big box on the homepage “CFLs are better, find out why here”. The last page has recommended spacings to give an idea and there is also information on the differences in the spread of light http://www.energysavinglighting.com.au As far as the halogens, there are new regulations for installing recessed downlights. In our build there is a fire proof cover that is placed over the downlight in the roof. This thread has more information on regulations viewtopic.php?p=99382 Lower wattage globes are available for halogens which are an "energy saving" alternative. The 12v transformer burns some juice too however (varies between 2 - 15w) so bear this in mind if you do any comparisons. Some of the newer CFLs can also be dimmed, its a step dimmer. Oyster lights are another energy saving alternative which are popular, however arent recessed. As Ken stated with the warm up, you wouldnt put CFLs where you need immediate light. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 4Jul 31, 2009 7:22 am Halogens are still the way to go... When you compare number of CFL's required, then power consumption is close to 1:1... Why go for CFL's then? Because the government is making us... New houses in Qld, not sure on other states must have 80% of the floor space light by "energy efficient" lighting... Forget the fact that everyone will need glasses because the light output is so bad! And that the bulbs contain mercury... Electrical Engineer... Don't hold that against me... And keen owner builder... Mainly the building part!! Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 5Jul 31, 2009 7:39 am CFLs are much more efficent, even though you need so many more. 4m x 4m room. Required 4 x 50w halogens or 12 x 11W CFLs For halogens: 50w + 10w transformer = 60w per light x 4 = 240w For CFLs 11w x 12 = 132w So just under half. thats pretty significant! Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 6Jul 31, 2009 8:42 am Sierra CFLs are much more efficent, even though you need so many more. 4m x 4m room. Required 4 x 50w halogens or 12 x 11W CFLs For halogens: 50w + 10w transformer = 60w per light x 4 = 240w For CFLs 11w x 12 = 132w So just under half. thats pretty significant! I don;t think I'd want 12 holes in my ceiling ofr a 4 x 4 m room! Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 7Jul 31, 2009 12:35 pm Thanks people You all seem to be up with the lighting aspect. It one think i did not think about till now. A light is not just a light it seems. The ladie in the shop was of the impreshion the the fluorescent are brighter and better and you need less of them. Was she wrong or just trying to sell them to me? If I want to change them in the future she said I cant because these are 240 not 12v. So I have to pull out the transformer or something like that. I did put up my electrical plan and would like some more surgestions. Im concered as to the heat factor of the 12v lights. She said they can get as hot as 360 is this correct, cover or no cover that is verry hot. Thanks for the good info, I will follow up the links, so thanks kindly. KW............. “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 8Jul 31, 2009 1:04 pm Sierra CFLs are much more efficent, even though you need so many more. 4m x 4m room. Required 4 x 50w halogens or 12 x 11W CFLs For halogens: 50w + 10w transformer = 60w per light x 4 = 240w For CFLs: 11w x 12 = 132w So just under half. thats pretty significant! Try it again.. This time with more realistic numbers... And energy efficient Halogens... 4 Halogens : 35W + 5W Transformer = 160W (Which can be suitably dimmed!!) Now to get the same light at working level, you will need more than 12 11W CFL's!!! Personally I'd rather go for 2 sets of 2 Halogens... Only turn on what you need, when you need it! Electrical Engineer... Don't hold that against me... And keen owner builder... Mainly the building part!! Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 9Jul 31, 2009 2:47 pm The figures were realistic for a 50W halogen and the junk transformers that are generally supplied? We could use energy efficient halogens and also lower wattage CFLs. We could also use less CFLs and/or supplement light with lamps for task lighting (such as reading?) etc. The comparison is based on having a suitable level of lighting for the room not the same light at working level. The characteristics of the two are very different and really cannot be directly compared, halogens are very bright directly under them and lose their intensity quickly as the light spreads. CFLs are floods and provide more even light distribution through their spread. I still believe that CFLs are more efficient however will provide less light. The amount will depend on your requirements for lighting and the way they are applied. I do agree with you however, my 4 x 4 room has 2 sets of 2 halogens Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 10Jul 31, 2009 6:21 pm As chuth77 mentioned: Here in Qld we are limited on the 80% energy efficient ruling. This is practically all of your general living areas. Ozz Built 36sq Plantation "Retreat" on 4460m2 at Spring Mountain, Qld In Living and landscaping.. >>> ... http://retreatspring.blogspot.com Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 11Jul 31, 2009 10:58 pm We are going to be using CFL downlights in our new place after months of investigation. Don't bag them until you try them I think some people don't realise that there are 2 types and they are very different (i didn't realise myself until DH showed me). The CFL downlights with a GU10 fitting are the ones that seem duller in comparison to a halogen, however there is another type which have a built in reflector. These ones take mini spiral CFL globes and are very bright. We ordered ours with 15w globes (equivalent to about 70w incandescent) and they are way too bright, we are on the hunt for some 11w ones now. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 12Aug 01, 2009 3:09 am Is this the type you mention. They do take the "super mini spiral" globe. They are DLCF not sure what it stands for. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Are these the go? Was told they are much brighter ????? Any more info would be great. Thanks KW........ “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 13Aug 01, 2009 7:43 pm Yeah that is the type, we got these ones: http://www.lummax.com.au/catalog.pdf on the last page item LM-90FD and there is a smaller version as well. Other brands that have these type are CLA, Flagstaff and Telbix (which i think is the one in your photo) but the Lummax seem to be one of the better ones. For us the best thing about them was the size. Looking up at them they are around the same size if not slightly smaller than a typical gimble type downlight and the smaller version are around the same size as a fixed type downlight. Some of the other brands look too big. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 14Aug 01, 2009 7:53 pm I've got 35 of the Espar CFL downlights installed in our new house. Are we happy with them? Yes and no. They are very dull when you first turn them on but after about 30 sec they are close to 100%. We used 13w warm white globes (with a couple of cool white for the small hallway) and they look great. I'd advise against going cool white, your house will look like an school, office or a public toilet (that weird white glow i'm referring to). Al & Caitie- Building the Hamilton 278 (Coral) at Narangba Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 15Aug 01, 2009 7:56 pm snhouse Thanks, will you go with these. You are correct about the brand. They told me $25 ( not sure if it comes with the globe) how much are your if I may ask? Do you think these are better than the 12 volt H. down lights? Will you put the safty cover on the back of them also? I was told they can not be dimmed, is this corect? Cheers KW........... “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 16Aug 01, 2009 8:13 pm KW that price is pretty expensive, we got ours (Lummax) for around $18 including globe and the Telbix ones were around the same price so shop around! Also the Telbix ones are not height adjustable which means you can't experiment with the light output by having the globe higher up in the fitting, which may not be a big deal to you anyway but its always nice to have options and no they are not dimmable. No safety cover required with these babies as they do not get hot. The only thing is you still have to follow the Aust standards guidelines for distance away from beams etc (which your sparky should know about). I think they are a great fitting and will definately give you enough light. The best thing is to have a look at them lit up in a lighting shop that has a dark room or booth set up. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 17Aug 01, 2009 8:31 pm I ordered 55 of these with the frosted glass cover for the entire house. They come in 15w and they're definitely brighter than the halogen lights I see in display homes Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 18Aug 01, 2009 9:04 pm [quote]These ones take mini spiral CFL globes and are very bright. We ordered ours with 15w globes (equivalent to about 70w incandescent) and they are way too bright, we are on the hunt for some 11w ones now. [quote] Following this thread with interest. Are these mini spiral CFL globes got the bayonet and/or screw base on them? Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 19Aug 01, 2009 9:07 pm supasquirrel Quote: These ones take mini spiral CFL globes and are very bright. We ordered ours with 15w globes (equivalent to about 70w incandescent) and they are way too bright, we are on the hunt for some 11w ones now. Quote: Following this thread with interest. Are these mini spiral CFL globes got the bayonet and/or screw base on them? Ours are the 15w bright ones, and they are the screw type. Re: 12 volt down lights v. fluorescent down lights. 20Aug 01, 2009 9:13 pm Quote: They are DLCF not sure what it stands for. Perhaps stands for "Down Light Compact Fluroescent" . Don't take it as truth just a guess. The Telbix ones are $15.10 at http://www.onlinelighting.com.au So I'm just reading up on this ecosystem of lights. I'm planning on putting deck lights along the outside edge of a large deck. Will need about 3 packs (18 lights) plus… 0 23021 How long is a "long period"? For a few weeks, it should be ok. 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