Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jun 23, 2009 4:29 pm Hi all We have finally started construction after buying our block in Caroline Springs 18 months ago. Contract price was $40k over budget (and initial quote) but we were slowly getting over that. Unfortunately our excitement at site start has been flattened by the amount of rock that continues to be dug from the depths. We had an allowance of $2000 for rock excavation in the contract but this seems insignificant now. We are building double storey, ground floor area 170m3 (not huge), cut & fill (1.5m slope). The builder has advised we have about 160m3 rock from the cut & fill and now 65m3 from the plumbing, (numbers are not finalised as they are still waiting for the invoices). If they charge $200/m3 we are up to $45k in rock removal alone!!! I'm not sure how much is included in the contract cost of the cut & fill. Does "removal of spoil" include removal of rock (excluding excavation)? Is there anything we can do to get out of paying some of this? Doesn't the land developer have some duty to warn buyers about this sort of thing or do they just rely on the their naivete? I know now about Caroline Springs' reputation for rock content, but when we bought the block we had no idea. If there was any possibility raised at the time that we could pay so much for rock removal, we would never have considered building there. We will probably run out of funds before the house is anywhere near complete! Corner block, lake view, custom design Re: One Word, ROCK!! 2Jun 23, 2009 5:04 pm Oh no!!! I don't know what to say... is there anyway to cut some costs out of the structure without changing the structure if that makes sense?? Downgrading the finish in the kitchen for example, and then you can change things in a few years?? I'm so sorry to hear this. It's a common shock for people though. Have a talk to your builder and see if you can come to some type of arrangement re costs. Hope you can figure something out. I leave you to fend for yourself, figure things out yourself. Terrence Malick Re: One Word, ROCK!! 4Jun 23, 2009 5:49 pm Ari How could they miss that much rock? How could anyone miss the rock, take a drive around the area look at the rocks ****** in the paddocks or road cuttings, most of the north west of Melbourne is prone to rocks. Re: One Word, ROCK!! 5Jun 23, 2009 5:52 pm I so sorry to hear that. That is a LOT of money for ROCK Is there anyway you can hire a truck and remove the rock yourselves, therefore reduce the cost from the builder. Maybe come up with an agreement with your local waste station for removal?? to get it cheaper?? Depending on your covenant, see if you can delete render from the list ( if you are having it) or any other things that can be done later after handover Living in Caloundra Thread****** Lovin my house all finished!!! Now tackling the HUGE task of the Garden- viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14782 Re: One Word, ROCK!! 6Jun 23, 2009 9:24 pm Hi scribe I am sorry to hear you have hit rock. I am in the same boat as you......we are on week 3 of site works now. I will know my rock "bill" this week, I will be happy to share it with you. I am not sure about the exact amount of rock removed but I know there was approx 5,ooom3 dirt removed alone. The concern with our costs also lay with the fact that the retaining walls now have to be upgraded to a core filled product because they have hit rock (you'd think rock would make the wall MORE stable....apparently not!) I hope you get answers soon, the worry is enormous.......we had a 30k contingency "in case" which I am sure has been absorbed and some. I truly hope it all works out in your favour. JL Re: One Word, ROCK!! 7Jun 23, 2009 9:42 pm So you need to stockpile some stone... Check out the cost to purchase rock Find a place with heaps of space and dump it there sell it by the tonne Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: One Word, ROCK!! 8Jun 23, 2009 9:47 pm We have/had alot of rock on our block. Fixed price site costs with Coral helped. Cost us about $3000 - $4000 extra from memory but rock is excellent to build on. After excavation for plumbing (ensuite, laundry, bathroom), we were left with two huge piles of rock to be taken away at our cost. All up I had to remove about 33 000kg of rock and dirt. Paid cash no invoice to a guy with a truck and digger ($85p/h) and then cost me $6.50 a tonne to dump with the first 3 tonnes free. Al & Caitie- Building the Hamilton 278 (Coral) at Narangba Re: One Word, ROCK!! 9Jun 23, 2009 10:01 pm What kind of rock? Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: One Word, ROCK!! 10Jun 24, 2009 12:47 am We were surprised when we learnt we had rock but we were naive, only thinking about soil types (developer showed us all their house and land package soil types near us). Best think you can do when you are interested in a block is take a mattock and have a dig. Bit of everything really... There's a 50ha quarry not far away with 420ha being buffer land (thankfully). The rock they get from the quarry: Greenstone and hornfelsed greenstone; Blue hornfels; Phyllite; and Granite. We've got a small boulder in the back of the wife's car as a souvenier. Took us three truckloads to get rid of everything. Dump was about 15-20 min away so all up it took about 4 hours. Much cheaper to dump it yourself rather than get someone to take it away. The guy I hired told me to ask the local tip about dumping it as a resident as he would have been charged about $60 a tonne to dump it himself as a business. Converting cubic metres (m3) to tonnes is tough as it depends on the density of the material. When you dump it, the truck will be weighed in tonnes (full and then empty) to get the weight of the dumped material. I dumped 33 tonnes which would be roughly 10 - 14m3 (depending on the density of the rock and soil mix). To get the m3, divide tonnes by the density of the material. I used 2.4 as a happy medium between all the soil and broken up rock (look up densities on google). So cost per m3 to dump and remove (using 12m3 as an average): $554.50/12m3=$46.21 So it cost me $46.21m/3 all up to get rid of it (not counting the measely 3 tonnes). If you have a dump closer by, then it will cost less. Tip: try to dump it when its completely dry otherwise the weight of the water really adds up. If you know what rock you have, you can look up its density in google and then add the density of soil and average the two. EDIT - Slaps head. That $200m3 includes excavation right? Excavation can add a bit of time depending on the services being installed. Still factoring in excavation time to my $46.21m3 shouldn't take it anywhere near your builder's $200m/3 figure. Your builder wants to charge you $200/m3 which is very rich considering the cost for dumping Al & Caitie- Building the Hamilton 278 (Coral) at Narangba Re: One Word, ROCK!! 11Jun 24, 2009 1:21 am Hi Scribe, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Please recheck what your contract says about Provisional Sum. In regards to the 15% rule which sales consultants use for rocks, I don't think it is correct because the percentage does not apply to the cost rise due to Provisional Costs or Provisional Sum (see section 41(1) of Domestic Building Contract Act). So please be careful when they say this, if the sales consultant is so certain then make sure you get it in writing on your initial quote. This is taken from my old MBAV contract with my previous builder 'The builder warrants that any Provisional Sum included by the builder in the contract has been calculated with reasonable care and skill taking account of all information reasonable available at the date the Contract was made, including nature and location of land'. So the builder gave you a PS of $2,000 but end up at $45,000 that is a bit suss. In the past while I was doing a reference check on my chosen builder, I met a couple who was in the same position like you, they told me they got quoted a PS of $2,000 but the actual cost ended up to be about $30,000. They said they disputed this, I can't remember whether they said they went to court or not, but they said the builder first dropped it down to $17,000 but they still weren't happy so in the end the builder conceeded and reduce it down to $7,000. Whether what they told me is true or not I don't know but I know they had a Sh*t load of rocks when they showed me the photo's. My only advice is to go and talk to a lawyer who specialises in building and construction for advice. Sorry for the long post and I hope that eveything will turn out good for you. Re: One Word, ROCK!! 12Jun 24, 2009 7:18 am For anyone considering building... Get a soil survey first... Even before getting a house design... Be onsite with the soil tester, and he can point out where the rock is on the block... Once you know you have rock, you can modify your design to suit... i.e. don't build a slab on ground!!! Electrical Engineer... Don't hold that against me... And keen owner builder... Mainly the building part!! Re: One Word, ROCK!! 13Jun 24, 2009 10:42 am Thanks everyone for your replies Our site survey did detect rock but that doesnt show how many or how big they are. Our provisional sum was only made up between us and the Sales Consultant - no thought was actually put into it other than let's hope it's not much more than this. I dont think there is a limit to how much it can go up. Our SC said he had seen a range of $800 to $20k. Ours is not the first house they have built in Caroline Springs, so they should have known whether the provision was reasonable. Our neighbour with PD said his costs went from $7k to $20k but he's not sure what that included (ie just rocks, rocks plus slab, etc). I am still not sure what the cost split is between excavating the rock and removing the rock. (Still have not heard from Head Office). I will not hestitate to get someone else to remove it once I find out this detail. (I was not given the opportunity to remove the rock from the cut & fill). Corner block, lake view, custom design Re: One Word, ROCK!! 14Jun 24, 2009 1:39 pm Scribe, this is very common, i would express to all people thet are at contract stage or just starting off with their chosen builders to not go forward unless the rock issue is covered and fixed. the dangers of signing a non fixed contract are just to high, there are areas where rock is a masive problem and coupled with most builders charging crazy prices to remove the rock it adds up and can cause you a lot of stress. most builders will make a profit up to 50% on rock removal, now that sounds absolutly crazy but i have seen the way they cost it. when you have rock charges @ 10-20-30K the builders are rubbing their hand together as you have no outs and are obligated to pay. Hi all, I have been looking at land in South Australia, that is on a slope however most of the core excavation is complete, with a flat area to place a house. The agent… 0 1413 Very common on rendered homes Smaller suppliers get the lower quality raw materials 6 11866 4 14302 |