Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jun 14, 2009 9:43 am Can anyone shed some light on the options available? (Brisbane area) Our new home builder has made a couple of costly additions to our house based on the new Mandatory 5 star energy rating. 1) Tinted windows on our North facing sliding glass doors and windows. We don't want tinting as it defeats much of the purpose of having the glass on the north side of the house. 2) Insulation batts installed over garage area. This seems silly as the garage area is rarely occupied and definately isn't heated or cooled. So why have the batts other than to meet a theoretical rating system!? My questions are as follows; 1) We have a 12.5m2 alfresco with an outdoor fan. By the rules, this means we only need to meet 4 star energy rating if we can reach a R1.5 down rating in the alfresco. Can anyone explain how this R1.5 can be achieved? if we can get 4 stars, we can drop the tinting and batts over the garage area. 2) What are the alternatives to tinting the windows? Can we install awnings or blinds post-build and still meet the criteria? We definately want to keep the windows as this is the open area flowing to our outdoor "playspace". Essentially the whole vision of the house was built around this. 3) Related to previous question...Do all criteria need to be met by the builder "before" building? It seems crazy that any energy efficiency I put in after the handover is disregarded by the government. And it gives builders an open "rort" area to exploit and make more money. Money that I could spend more efficiently by choosing my own energy options post build, potentially providing a more efficient house for a similar cost. *Grinds teeth slightly as he seethes over the building process and builder rorts* Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 2Jun 14, 2009 9:48 am emptyvessel Can anyone shed some light on the options available? (Brisbane area) Our new home builder has made a couple of costly additions to our house based on the new Mandatory 5 star energy rating. 1) Tinted windows on our North facing sliding glass doors and windows. We don't want tinting as it defeats much of the purpose of having the glass on the north side of the house. 2) Insulation batts installed over garage area. This seems silly as the garage area is rarely occupied and definately isn't heated or cooled. So why have the batts other than to meet a theoretical rating system!? My questions are as follows; 1) We have a 12.5m2 alfresco with an outdoor fan. By the rules, this means we only need to meet 4 star energy rating if we can reach a R1.5 down rating in the alfresco. Can anyone explain how this R1.5 can be achieved? if we can get 4 stars, we can drop the tinting and batts over the garage area. 2) What are the alternatives to tinting the windows? Can we install awnings or blinds post-build and still meet the criteria? We definately want to keep the windows as this is the open area flowing to our outdoor "playspace". Essentially the whole vision of the house was built around this. 3) Related to previous question...Do all criteria need to be met by the builder "before" building? It seems crazy that any energy efficiency I put in after the handover is disregarded by the government. And it gives builders an open "rort" area to exploit and make more money. Money that I could spend more efficiently by choosing my own energy options post build, potentially providing a more efficient house for a similar cost. *Grinds teeth slightly as he seethes over the building process and builder rorts* I would never have tinted windows on the North - and I am in Victoria where it could be said to be beneficial - you will cook in Brisbane IMO. Get some other windows double glazed to compensate instead, the software can handle that... cost about the same IMO. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 3Jun 14, 2009 9:59 am Thanks for the advice. So, are you saying that I can potentially do double glazing on say, my southern windows or perhaps the three western windows on my kids bedrooms for the low afternoon sun in summer? I was thinking of retractable awnings installed post-build so I can extend them most of summer, but retract all winter. I need to read some of your posts on double glazing, I know nothing about it. This software you mention. Is that the BERS PRO V4.1 software by Solar Logic that they mention on the Certificate of Compliance? Thanks for any advice, Empty Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 4Jun 14, 2009 10:08 am emptyvessel Thanks for the advice. So, are you saying that I can potentially do double glazing on say, my southern windows or perhaps the three western windows on my kids bedrooms for the low afternoon sun in summer? I was thinking of retractable awnings installed post-build so I can extend them most of summer, but retract all winter. I need to read some of your posts on double glazing, I know nothing about it. This software you mention. Is that the BERS PRO V4.1 software by Solar Logic that they mention on the Certificate of Compliance? Thanks for any advice, Empty Yes, BERS in Qld and FirstRate in Vic (Accurate is the foundation of both). Double glazing is an insulator from Convected and Conducted heat. D/G needs Low-E glass to stop Radiant heat, so if you want to keep heat or cold in or out it's double glazing alone. If you want to keep the suns rays from heating up a room through the glass then you need to add Low-E glass to the D/G. (but it has to be on surface 2)... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 5Jun 14, 2009 10:39 am Can you dumb it down for me a little (or alot)? We are at opposite ends of the spectrum, you Expert, me Noob. Noob is just trying to work out how he can keep his clear windows on the north. Noob thinks glazing makes things dark and he doesn't want that. Noob will have blinds/curtains/shutters if he wants to block out the light for aesthetics. Noob questions; You mentioned "cooking in summer", which I want to avoid. Are you recommending D/G sliding doors on the north to replace my current S/G? OR Can I keep them S/G? And do D/G on some other windows, like my western sun windows in order to meet the energy efficiency? Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 6Jun 14, 2009 1:00 pm re postbuild complaince - how does anyone know that you will acctually do it. ? Hence it has to be done now. re tinting - external shading will do what you need as wel and same for western walls/windows. Shade them now and see how the numbers work. Other things to try in order of effect. Double glazing Walls to R2.0 Ceiling to R4.0 Ceiling fans Louvres that open to 90% Ask them to some of those into the rating system and see where you get the benefits. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 7Jun 14, 2009 1:53 pm emptyvessel Can I keep them S/G? And do D/G on some other windows, like my western sun windows in order to meet the energy efficiency? Yes, that's what I am saying and what yak-chat is saying. Compensate for having clear glazing instead of tinted by improving something else. Like double glazing in another area or upping your insulation in the walls and ceiling... etc. Talk to your builder/energy rater... it's easy. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 8Jun 14, 2009 2:33 pm Thanks very much for clarifying gentlemen. I will have a chat with them about this. I do question the logic regarding; "How do you know you will ever do it?". Not a personal attack, of course, just the logic. Let us extend this logic to the rule that first home owners must live in the premises for at least six months starting within the first twelve or they lose the grant and must pay it back. How do they know you did it? They check. Sure, there are a minority that must rort the system, but on the whole, it works as designed. I contend that the same would occur for this energy rating system. Perhaps if they just made us submit plans along with the build and we had to have the measures in place within 12 months or we get slugged with a nasty levy on our rates? What I would really like to see is tax incentives for those people that design/modify their homes to reach those much higher energy ratings. Investors, home owners, the environment and energy efficient businesses like Ed's would all benefit. I am sure there is a downside that my rose-colored glasses is preventing me from seeing. Feel free to point it out. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 9Jun 14, 2009 2:41 pm In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I understand that having a "hot/cold spot" in the house can cause all sorts of interesting heat flow effects and it may just be better to have the whole ceiling unit insulated. Just want to make sure I am putting the garage insulation in for a positive energy effect rather than just trying to tick the 5 star box. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 10Jun 14, 2009 2:45 pm emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I understand that having a "hot/cold spot" in the house can cause all sorts of interesting heat flow effects and it may just be better to have the whole ceiling unit insulated. Just want to make sure I am putting the garage insulation in for a positive energy effect rather than just trying to tick the 5 star box. As far as the physics is concerned I can't see any point in insulating your garage ceiling. I mean if the garage wasn't there would it change the energy rating of the rest of the house? I think not... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 11Jun 14, 2009 2:48 pm I'm from Brisbane and I would like to ask what the negativity towards window tinting is based on? We have 3M tinting and it's fantastic. We got one that in the daytime you can't even tell the windows are tinted. At night you can see a brownish tinge but only just and it looks good. We have one very large uncovered first floor feature window in a room with a double height ceiling that is tinted and looks out to the sky (from the angle when we sit on the lounge below) with a sliding door beneath it. If you open the door and compare the view through the window to the open door you would struggle to pick that the window is tinted. From memory the tinting wasn't cheap but well worth it IMHO. We also have white shutters on our windows which I'm sure assists in keeping the house cool. In summer we always love coming home after a day out, because our house is always cooler than wherever we have been as yet without exception. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 12Jun 14, 2009 3:08 pm ed @ EcoClassic emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I understand that having a "hot/cold spot" in the house can cause all sorts of interesting heat flow effects and it may just be better to have the whole ceiling unit insulated. Just want to make sure I am putting the garage insulation in for a positive energy effect rather than just trying to tick the 5 star box. As far as the physics is concerned I can't see any point in insulating your garage ceiling. I mean if the garage wasn't there would it change the energy rating of the rest of the house? I think not... Ed Right, thx. I will pull that out of the BERS calc's and the $400 will go towards the double glazing and heavier ceiling batts. Catch is, I am sure the builder is gonna sting me extra. Damn weak negotiating positions. Buggers can almost charge you whatever they like. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 13Jun 14, 2009 3:16 pm Melton I'm from Brisbane and I would like to ask what the negativity towards window tinting is based on? Which way does your large tinted window face? I thought the orientation was a major point. emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I understand that having a "hot/cold spot" in the house can cause all sorts of interesting heat flow effects and it may just be better to have the whole ceiling unit insulated. That's what I was guessing but then what about the effect of the garage door? Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 14Jun 14, 2009 3:22 pm Melton I'm from Brisbane and I would like to ask what the negativity towards window tinting is based on? We have 3M tinting and it's fantastic. We got one that in the daytime you can't even tell the windows are tinted. At night you can see a brownish tinge but only just and it looks good. We have one very large uncovered first floor feature window in a room with a double height ceiling that is tinted and looks out to the sky (from the angle when we sit on the lounge below) with a sliding door beneath it. If you open the door and compare the view through the window to the open door you would struggle to pick that the window is tinted. From memory the tinting wasn't cheap but well worth it IMHO. We also have white shutters on our windows which I'm sure assists in keeping the house cool. In summer we always love coming home after a day out, because our house is always cooler than wherever we have been as yet without exception. You are right, the negativity comes purely from the perception we have of it appearing "dark" when viewed from inside. And from the outside too to some extent. We have worked really hard to maintain this "open connection" between the outdoor and indoor living areas. Visibility both ways is key to this for us. Privacy is not really a major concern as we don't have direct visibility from neighbors. If the tinting they are proposing is truly as transparent as yours, it will suit our needs perfectly. I will ask them if it is this 3M or of similar quality. Hopefully I can trust the answer. Would hate to have to rip and replace based on a lie. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 15Jun 14, 2009 3:23 pm emptyvessel ed @ EcoClassic emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I understand that having a "hot/cold spot" in the house can cause all sorts of interesting heat flow effects and it may just be better to have the whole ceiling unit insulated. Just want to make sure I am putting the garage insulation in for a positive energy effect rather than just trying to tick the 5 star box. As far as the physics is concerned I can't see any point in insulating your garage ceiling. I mean if the garage wasn't there would it change the energy rating of the rest of the house? I think not... Ed Right, thx. I will pull that out of the BERS calc's and the $400 will go towards the double glazing and heavier ceiling batts. Catch is, I am sure the builder is gonna sting me extra. Damn weak negotiating positions. Buggers can almost charge you whatever they like. Ask to speak to the energy rater directly, there are many choices you can make, some cost more, some less... In fact for about $200 you can organise the energy rating yourself and get to make all the decisions. Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 16Jun 14, 2009 4:04 pm Ok, spoke to the builder and will be doing a concall tommorrow with the energy guy. I found some "smart tinting" in the local area, spoke to them and got lots of useful info. Check it out here; http://www.tintplus.com.au/architectual ... klist.html Looks like an ideal solution for us. Going for the Clearview 60 range on north and western windows. Now lets see if my builder can handle liasing with a new supplier. This is great, I have learned alot today and have potentially a much better solution than what I was originally thinking. Thanks again for the advice, Empty. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 17Jun 19, 2009 8:22 pm Final update, all went well. Removed all glazing, they couldn't do the stuff I wanted. I will do this post build. Increased ceiling batts from R2.5 to R3.0, this gave us the 5 star rating for only an extra $300 bucks. Net result was cheaper because window glazing that was removed was around $600 bucks. Also took batts off garage roof. Thanks to everyone for the assistance. Go to contract signing on Sunday. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 18Jun 20, 2009 8:55 pm emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I see insulation in a garage as being counter-productive. You drive your car in with a hot engine, then the insulation keeps the heat in. This is not what we want in Queensland. Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 19Jun 20, 2009 9:08 pm cyberman emptyvessel In addition, is there any point in having the ceiling insulation over the garage area? I see insulation in a garage as being counter-productive. You drive your car in with a hot engine, then the insulation keeps the heat in. This is not what we want in Queensland. Hey, good point in Queensland! Re: Mandatory 5 star energy rating confusion 20Jun 21, 2009 12:20 am Quote: What I would really like to see is tax incentives for those people that design/modify their homes to reach those much higher energy ratings. Investors, home owners, the environment and energy efficient businesses like Ed's would all benefit. I am sure there is a downside that my rose-colored glasses is preventing me from seeing. Feel free to point it out. Me too Good to hear you go through with the extra R level of the batts. re the batts in the garage - I would have gone with them over that area - the heat load in the garage will now be against the inner walls of the house and the door - and the engine temp would not have raised the heat that much if you had batts there - nor is the engine temp creating heat there very often. 10 years ago was a different software than we use now. it has had a lot of changes over the past years. Improvments to the software and changes to how Nathers models need… 8 1466 Hi All, see above image. The required setback from the rear boundary in my case is 5m, as you can see the shape of the site and location of the boundary is slightly… 0 8451 |