Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Apr 02, 2009 2:53 pm Hi all, I'm building my first house in Sydney - Mortdale in Kogarah Council, and have been visiting Homeworld for the last 4 months finding a floorplan to meet my somewhat strange requirements. It's taken so long because originally i was looking at double storey, and now am looking at single storey, plus the strange requirements. I am accepting that my site costs will be high because i have a block that slopes down from the street. It's something like 3 metres drop down? Anyway, the reason i'm posting is that i'm at the pointy end of considering the different quotations, and for some strange reason, the favourite of our considered builders and floorplans has given us a quotation/tender which doesn't look like the other ones. I'm used to getting tenders which list what is requested, eg fence hire, piering, 2700mm ceilings etc, and then it lists the cost of this item, so that everything is laid out clearly. Our favourite (Cambridge floorplan from Champion Homes) has come back with a tender with all the items described, but no individual pricing. So the base price of house is $175K, and final price is $240. That's all the detail that i got. After pressing further, i got the following breakdown. Base price $175,000 Site costs $ 25,000 Drop edge beam $ 15,000 Articulated patio $ 10,000 BASIX $ 7,000 3.3 ceiling height $ 5,000 Split slab $ 3,000 $240,000 I'm very nervous about being * somewhere down the line. So this has raised some warning bells in my mind. However, due to some of my strange requirements, small budget, and not all builders will build in my area, i don't actually have so much choice in builder/design. So has anyone else had this experience where the tender was not itemised clearly? Or has anyone else had an experience with Champion Homes that explains why they do this? I couldn't really get a good answer from my sales guy. Rivercup PS demolition is happening in about a week. I'm very excited, and want to document the asbestos-filled dump being razed to the ground! Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 2Apr 02, 2009 3:29 pm Just ask them nicely to itemise it all for you. We are building with a smaller builder and have found their dealings quite different from the larger companies. So we just keep asking them until we get the result we need. Just be firm but polite. Also put your requests in writing - either snail mail or email. Then that way you have a record of all your dealings. Some things are worth waiting for. Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 3Apr 02, 2009 3:30 pm sorry no, I havent heard of that Our tender was very descriptive right down to having a shadow line for $75. Every little thing was listed with the price. or if no price ( complimentary) was still written. Id go back and ask for something more detailed. If you feel awkward about that, just say the bank wants something more detailed, that way you dont feel bad for asking?? Living in Caloundra Thread****** Lovin my house all finished!!! Now tackling the HUGE task of the Garden- viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14782 Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 4Apr 02, 2009 3:36 pm Put it this way..... you wouldn't pay for a meal or order off a menu that wasn't itemised with the price so why would you agree to build a house that way. Even if it's just a tender you should know right from the start how they want to charge you. Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 5Apr 02, 2009 5:27 pm Hi Rivercup! I'm building in Oatley - Kogarah Council also. We have a long building saga - if you want to pm me any q's about council go right ahead!!! Agree with the other posters - just go back and ask again for a further breakdown. Maybe explain it will help you make a decision about going forward. I'm curious as to your other builders you have spoken with - we have a sloping block also! Cheers Bel Still not in. Don't ask!? Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 6Apr 02, 2009 7:32 pm perhaps you have no variations or not asking for any upgrades to be costed in the tender. the idea is that when you do your colour selection, the upgrade cots for flooring, kitchen, electricals, tiling, etc will be added to your contract as post contract variations. what you have received is the cost of building a base home on your site. i see that they've factored in dropped edge beams, split, etc - so they must have looked at your site plan, contours, etc have they done a formal survey and engineers report? otherwise all your site costs are provisional and based on the HIA the builder has the right to bill you extras. what you have received is not uncommon. i know of people who accept this and factor in contingency and go ahead. others may want a greater uncertainty and fixed price. for me - i would like the site costs based on a proper surveyed plan, engineer's bore hole reports and pre-lim discussions with council, even if i need to pay for this additional exercise. furthermore = try to get as much other upgrades, inclusions added to your contract. its well worth it. Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 7Apr 03, 2009 7:50 am Hi all, thanks for the advice. homebuddy925: I have asked for a couple of small changes. Just stuff to attempt to get it through council as Complying Development rather than as DA (even though i'm not sure it'll work out anyway with 3.3m high ceilings) , or things like moving a door to a different wall. These costs are provisional i guess then. There has been no formal contour survey or engineers report. They just came and had a look at the site for free. However, i paid some money to a different builder for a quotation + soil test and contour survey. That'll be ready next week. I will come back to Champion next week and use your suggestions about proper surveyed plan, engineer's bore hole reports and pre-lim discussions with council. Plus lay it on the table plainly and simply that i'd like to see more detailed breakdown of costs before moving forward, if at all with them. Bel, hi fellow Kogarah Council battler. I have gotten quotations from * Bellmarch (for the Brooklyn when i was considering double storey) * Westminster (Trafalgar - though i won't be going near them after seeing them on the news) * Eagle Homes (Golden Whistler - quotation ready in a few days) * Beechwood (Mona Vale - They provided quotation with split level stairs in the middle of house. They told me my block only just made it into their 'buildable' criteria. No-one else complained too much) * Champion (Cambridge - Split level with stairs 1/3 of the way into the house) Ideally i'd rather use Allworth homes, but they won't go to Kogarah Council. Rivercup Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 8Apr 03, 2009 9:54 am way to go rivercup!! the most variable part of the build is the site costs. the costs above the slab is fixed. builders have a field day increasing the price - and mostly based on unknown site costs as they did not do a proper survey, borehole report OR the tender/contract has expired and they want to nail some additional costs. and note the HIA building contract has provisions for a builder to charge you extras - so its your best interest to fix costs as much as you can and minimise the word PROVISIONAL ALLOWANCE from your tender. in my case after doing prelim assessment to my council - the council modified the cut/fill requirement and asked them to put a split and contain the fill using deep edge beam rather than retaining wall. it added about $15K on my contract. I was taken back - but in hindsight - i rather know this cost before going into build rather than later. even after it came out of council - there was a clause to add MORE deep edge beams so that was another $3.5K. Note: this was after the surveyed plans and engineers report. So in your case - if your land is sloping it'll be good to get all this sort of checks done upfront. As in most builds - you will definately be hit with some surprises - but doing this means that the risk is substantially minimised and allows you to plan your financials better. happy to help out further. just PM me. Re: Itemised costs in the tender or quotation 9Apr 03, 2009 11:27 am Doesn't sound right Rivercup, (as I posted elsewhere for a similar question) A tender is a presentation of the breakdown of costs of the site costs through to the build and appliances inclusions etc. So in order for you to select the builder, he must estimate all of that and present it to you in a tender. Its important that you get as detailed a breakdown as you can because if things go wrong during the building, you can refer back to his base costs. Then you begin to haggle on variations. Let’s say that the builder gets to the footings for the slab and finds rock, way way down under the ground. That could be the difference between him using a 3 ton or a 20 ton kato /excavator and drills. How can he then charge you extra for what he did not know was there, if you don't know how much he allowed for that work in the first place? If he is giving you a lump sum figure and says that this will cover all changes, alterations, and small surprises in the building process, then he is either (to put it plainly) stupid or inexperienced. Either way, I would find someone else. Good luck Pinkladyloo Hey. Head to a metal and decide on which profile you will use first. 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