Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Feb 28, 2007 7:20 pm Hello everyone
I recently heard of a case where a builder has told their client that they have changed their policy and are not accepting any variations after construction has started. The nature of the change was simply to replace an internal door style and a basin. What's everyones thoughts about this and given the company did not have this policy when they signed the contract do you feel they have any right to insist on the changes? Regards Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 2Feb 28, 2007 7:51 pm My opinion:
1) Unless the contract says that variations are allowed, they are at the builder’s discretion 2) I thought builders loved variations as they normally remove the items at wholesale prices and substitute the new item at retail prices AND charge an extra fee. Yippee! 3) I would think that for enough financial compensation, builders will do any variation you please. 4) After you think the contract is final, take it away and check everything for a month and then, if need be check anything else, then sign it. Once you sign it pretend it set in concrete (pardon the pun). 5) If you change your mind during construction certainly bring it up with the builder. If they say no, replace it when you move in. I can’t imagine this happening in Sydney where builders are scratching for work, but in WA I can imagine it’s normal. Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 3Mar 02, 2007 12:32 pm My opinion:
That's wrong, I can't beleive that builders think there doing you a favour by building your house.It's the only process i've gone thorugh where your paying them alot of money and there in control all the time. What happened to the customer is always right ? I know it's an old principle but it's your home. I'd complain and point to the orignal contract where i assume they have written it will cost you $X for a variation and insist on them honouring the contract. As Casa said there going to make more money out of it anyway so what's the problem ? If it was a wall or something and it had been constructed then fair enough but an internal where they probably havn't even ordered the stock then i'd push it. There's my two cents. Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 4Mar 02, 2007 3:08 pm Last time we built the builder told us that some clients keep coming back over and over again causing delays changing drawings and generally totally losing the plot.So when do you draw the line?
Some folk are very hard to satisfy. Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 5Mar 02, 2007 7:25 pm The whole building business is a treacherous journey.
Builders want to build their customer’s dream home and see a smile on their face once it’s complete. And hopefully recommend the builder to others so that they can do it all again. Obviously they also want to make a decent living from the exercise. Customers want builders to guide them along the journey and build their dream home that puts a smile on their face. They want to pay a fair price for this service. (The key word here is service – not just a house.) This is what should happen, but it seems that it's rarely the case. Often builders and customers are upset with each and wonder why they persist. If you ask me, the builders do this many times and customers only do it a few times and probably only once. The builders are in the best position to make the process happen well. Find out what the customer wants, provide documentation that helps them pick the right things and help them consider the relevant points. Give them quality, not whatever makes the most money for the builder. Use experience to get the desired outcome. Then maybe variations will be much fewer and everyone would be happier. If any builder did this they would quickly get lots of recommendations to customer’s friends and forums like this and it would be great for business. Oh, and can we make this new paradigm happen in the next month or so because I would like to pick a builder very soon Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 6Mar 02, 2007 7:34 pm I was thinking the same thing. I can't believe the numbher of people that have bad experiences with builders.
Maybe the good, small builder gets plenty of references, then gets too many jobs, then becomes a crap, big builder. Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 7Mar 02, 2007 7:52 pm Every part of the building process requires qualified competent people. To stay on top of things continous education is necessary.
Most builders want to keep doing things the way they started of with at the beginning of their working life and change is a horror for them. Their training process is narrow and anything different or change is out of their comfort zone. I have seen many cases where the customer has been harrassed by the builder because they wanted to change something. A competent builder should have no problem with that as long the material is not purchased yet or more expensive. Builders try do concrete work, carpentry, window/door Kitchen installation and so on. It is simply not possible to stay up to date in all these areas. Therefore they are only confident and competent in some areas while they drag the other things along without the skills, confidence or necessary knowledge. The results are obvious all over the place..... Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 8Mar 03, 2007 7:38 am [quote="Casa"] Give them quality, not whatever makes the most money for the builder.
I wish this would happen but it isn't going to. My opinion is (please don't lynch me)that it's also partly homeowner's fault - we want everything as cheap as possible, not quality (quality is hardly going to be the cheapest tile, or window, or rangehood). That's why quality stuff costs a lot more than it should. Maybe it's us, homeowners, who should change first. Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 9Mar 03, 2007 8:01 am mek,
Yes we want quality. But it doesn't (or shouldn't) cost all that much extra. To change from a cheap plastic cistern toilet to a brand name vitreous china will double the cost of the item. For a designer item you can pay up to ten times more. You get a lot more for your money for the first “upgrade”, but very little for the designer item. So offer the value for money upgrade throughout the house. The bulk of the building costs are fairly fixed (bricks, plasterboard, tiles, concrete, site preparation). These items have a small range of prices and generally come from big names (eg Austral, Boral, CSR, etc). If builders used the good quality brand names items, sure the selected items would be double the price, but in relation to the entire building cost this will only add 20% more. I don't know about others, but I would pay 20% more than the price of a base home if I knew all the "bits that matter" (mainly fixtures) throughout the house were of very good quality. What would you rather have – a $200,000 house that has used the bare minimum cost/quality item that satisfies a function or a $240,000 house were all the fittings, etc are good quality items from well known manufacturers (like Caroma). Actually, when you think about it, even if you want the cheapest item, the $240,000 house will cost you less after 10 years (or sell for more than the difference) once the cheap items start breaking down and need 10 times the cost of the part in labour to replace. Cheers, Casa Re: Why won't the builder accept variations? 10Mar 03, 2007 8:32 am Casa,
the problem is the lack of competition and politics. Many local manufacturers in Oz and NZ keep making the same old things for many years without updating, Therefore their products are often not up to the standards of some imported items from e.g. Europe. e.g. whiteware, bathroom fittings, lightswitches, windows! hardware! To protect these local manufacturers the politicans introduce tariffs on imported goods. This way the imported goods are made artificially expensive and not competitive pricewise. Because there is no competition the local manufacturers have no need to improve their products and they put up prices as they like!!! I am in favour of locally made products but if the standard is low I prefer imported things as you get more for your money.... HIA contracts 11Mar 04, 2007 11:34 am Hi
Just looked at the HIA contracts (was a WA builder) and seems to say its up to the builder whether they will accept variations. I think the issue here is that if the Sales person says you can make changes, they have some obligation to then allow them (if reasonable - as you said Marshy). Will be interesting to see what happens. Regards Fair Trading can issue orders to rectify and complete but once the matter goes to NCAT these orders are automatically vacated. You will have to terminate contract and sue… 21 29756 Hi All, I just wanted to close this topic out with an update. So we ended up agreeing to a number with the insurance company, and after an extensive amount of hand… 8 23405 It seems very clear to me that your contract states that a security account does NOT need to be established so the answer to the builder is NO. If in doubt find a contract… 1 8510 |