Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jan 08, 2009 6:39 pm Hi,
Just wondering if anyone can recommend a good solicitor in melb to look over our building contract? Also - any ideas of what this would cost?? Do most people have a legal professional look over contracts or not bother? Cheers Bec Re: Solicitor - building contract 2Jan 08, 2009 6:48 pm bec_e Do most people have a legal professional look over contracts or not bother? In retrospect I would have gotten a building lawyer to look at the contract and that was building with a well-respected award winning boutique builder. If the world ran on on trust then we wouldn't need contracts - but hardly anybody builds a house a house without one. It just tells us that if $$$ are at stake then people can get a little irrational. solicitor 3Jan 08, 2009 6:48 pm We were told by our specific builder (big company) that we were more than welcome to get a solicitor to go through the contract with us but no changes to the contract would be made. So it was more or less for the solicitor to explain it to us or advise us but don't expect anything to change. Which meant we either went with it or we didn't. That is just our case. I have no idea on the cost of doing so. I will be interested in other responses. Good luck.
themax Re: solicitor 4Jan 08, 2009 6:49 pm themax We were told by our specific builder (big company) that we were more than welcome to get a solicitor to go through the contract with us but no changes to the contract would be made. No point then. Walk away. Re: Solicitor - building contract 5Jan 08, 2009 6:53 pm Hi themax,
Wow - to me that seems very arrogant ! I find the whole building process quite odd - so much of it is no we can't do that and yet it seems there is lots of competition so arguably builders should be really trying to look after customers - I don't get it! arrogant indeed 6Jan 08, 2009 7:11 pm bec-e
Yes I agree it is very arrogant. I heard on the radio tagain today about the downturn in the building industry etc as we have all heard, you would think they would be rolling out the red carpet for us. It's actually the other way around I think?? VERY odd as you said, very. themax Re: arrogant indeed 7Jan 08, 2009 7:50 pm themax you would think they would be rolling out the red carpet for us. I think the industry by and large has historically presumed on customer ignorance. I would expect that if more people actually took firmer steps to protect their rights that the building market will be forced to become more competitive. I know a carpenter where even his builder got upset when they wanted to lock down every detail on the contract. Re: Solicitor - building contract 8Jan 09, 2009 4:14 pm We have just received a HIA contract with the "Sign Here" stickers. Whilst I am not a lawyer, I have administered complex legislation for many years, so I know a dud when I see one. We will be walking away as the contract is unfair and allows the builder to charge whatever they want and our role is to pay an invoice when it arrives, even if the work is defective. Have a look at the Fair Trading website in NSW and you will see a decent contract. It is about time that home buyers rejected the HIA cartel and refused these awful contracts. The industry would soon get the message. Buyers should also be aware that under the Home Building Act in NSW, contracts must be prominently displayed at exhibition homes. If they are not displayed, complain to Fair Trading. Check that you like the contract as much as you like the design. JNR - Once bitten, twice shy. Re: Solicitor - building contract 9Jan 09, 2009 4:59 pm Yes, but how do you walk away, knowing full well that pretty much any other volume builder you go to, uses the same standard HIA contract ??
They have customers 'over a barrel'. It's up to the government, I think, to do something about this unfair situation. Certainly the building industry WON'T ! Built the Eden Brae Cambridge 34 Family with Boston Corner Facade Re: Solicitor - building contract 10Jan 09, 2009 5:48 pm In my opinion the contract is pretty irrelevant anyway not matter what extra clauses you put in it. Simply because of the fact that if something goes wrong with the build and the builder just refuses to fix the problem, then you have to take it to court. Look at how many cases end up in court and those people still don't have their builds fixed. The contract is not worth the paper it is written on, because there is no protection in place for those building. The Home Warranty insurance is even more useless (except in QLD) unless your builder dies, becomes insolvent or disappears, so that doesn't even protect you against ** building work. And even if that happens, doesn't cover anyone fully to complete the house.
In Victoria, if you contact the Building Commission (whose job it is to advise consumers) most of their answer is to seek legal advice. That advice costs a lot of money and even then doesn't protect you against issues regarding builders. I don't think it really matters which contract is used, until such time legislation is changed and a better system is put in place for dealing with building issues, then this will not change. Building/renovating is a big risk, some get lucky, others get shafted. Re: Solicitor - building contract 11Jan 09, 2009 7:48 pm Sounds to me like we have a cartel. Where is the ACCC? If more buyers refuse, there will be a change. The government in these situations has proved ineffective, however you should write to your local memeber (State and Federal) and complain. I think the industry has had it too good for way too long and it is time consumers refused to play the game. If all else fails, is it time for a buyers' cooperative? JNR - Once bitten, twice shy. Re: Solicitor - building contract 12Jan 09, 2009 8:11 pm photogirl Simply because of the fact that if something goes wrong with the build and the builder just refuses to fix the problem, then you have to take it to court. No contract can prevent the possiblity of needing to take legal action. Only a court of law can enforce a judgment. Re: Solicitor - building contract 13Jan 10, 2009 8:22 am dymonite69 photogirl Simply because of the fact that if something goes wrong with the build and the builder just refuses to fix the problem, then you have to take it to court. No contract can prevent the possiblity of needing to take legal action. Only a court of law can enforce a judgment. The problem is even though a court of law can enforce a judgement, this does not force the builder to rectify the issue. There are plenty of home builders who have taken the builder to court and still have no house years later. The industry itself is obviously not tough enough on builders who do the wrong thing, to the detriment of consumers and other builders. The industry needs to protect both consumers and builders in ways other than just a contract, because the contract offers no protection and as you say can only be enforced in a court of law, which is not the best outcome for anyone. The majority of problems for someone building a house are related to the house not being built to standard or even being completed. We need better industry regulation and a better insurance system that protects consumers rather than having to fight this out in court which takes months/years and more money than people can probably afford to spend. You can put as many clauses as you like in a contract, but they won't protect you in the building industry. Re: Solicitor - building contract 14Jan 10, 2009 9:33 am photogirl The industry itself is obviously not tough enough on builders who do the wrong thing, to the detriment of consumers and other builders. Then this is a problem not with contracts, the legal system or building codes but the systems by which the industry is administrated. Judging from the MBA and HIA websites, there does not appear to be any regulatory arm of professional conduct - and it is not obligatory to join either. My professional board (with mandatory registration to practice) is involved in reviewing issues with conduct and performance. Where a adverse judgment is made by the board the name appear on a register with open access on their website. Re: Solicitor - building contract 15Jan 10, 2009 12:04 pm [/quote]
Then this is a problem not with contracts, the legal system or building codes but the systems by which the industry is administrated. [/quote] In my opinion and experience that's the case. Re: Solicitor - building contract 16Jan 10, 2009 12:19 pm Contracts exist to ensure that what we think we agree to is in writing...
As for the take it or leave it attitude... everything IS negotiable, unless it was written by the great signwriter in the sky (courtesy Herb Cohen). Re: Solicitor - building contract 17Jan 10, 2009 1:02 pm EcoClassic Contracts exist to ensure that what we think we agree to is in writing... As for the take it or leave it attitude... everything IS negotiable, unless it was written by the great signwriter in the sky (courtesy Herb Cohen). I agree that you can negotiate for inclusions into your contract, if I was to build again there would definitely be things I would change. However, the building industry is one of those industries where you can't assume because it is in the contract that you are protected. Just because the contract says that a builder must build to standards doesn't mean they will. And if they don't, there is not way to enforce this other than to take the matter to court. That's thousands of dollars and no guarantee that the issue will be resolved. I just hate that people are investing thousands of dollars and the assumption is that they are protected because they have a contract, it's just not the case. Our builder became insolvent 7 months ago, our contract is useless and we have had no work done on our house since June last year, plus we will be paying thousands of dollars over our contract price to get our house completed. And that's even with having Home Warranty Insurance. For those not covered by this insurance, it can be years taking a builder to court just to get them to complete a build or fix defects, this with the contract stating the work has to meet building standards. Re: Solicitor - building contract 18Jan 10, 2009 3:44 pm JNR We have just received a HIA contract with the "Sign Here" stickers. Whilst I am not a lawyer, I have administered complex legislation for many years, so I know a dud when I see one. We will be walking away as the contract is unfair and allows the builder to charge whatever they want and our role is to pay an invoice when it arrives, even if the work is defective. Have a look at the Fair Trading website in NSW and you will see a decent contract. It is about time that home buyers rejected the HIA cartel and refused these awful contracts. The industry would soon get the message. Buyers should also be aware that under the Home Building Act in NSW, contracts must be prominently displayed at exhibition homes. If they are not displayed, complain to Fair Trading. Check that you like the contract as much as you like the design. Well said JNR. I've read the HIA contract and it puts all the power in the builder's hand. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solicitor - building contract 19Jan 10, 2009 6:46 pm photogirl Our builder became insolvent 7 months ago, our contract is useless and we have had no work done on our house since June last year The problem is anyone can register to become a 'builder'. Not all of them will make a career out of it nor care about their reputations. Re: Solicitor - building contract 20Jan 10, 2009 11:46 pm Hi all,
If contracts don't work to protect consumers than it is very important that people who have issues with their builders to tell others about their experience (factual stuff with evidence eg. photos), this way people who are about to sign are well inform before they sign the dotted line. As more people (especially gen y and gen x) who are more tech savvy with the internet, forums like this will eventually change the building industry as the old saying goes " knowledge is power". Just hope people share their building experience whether good or bad, i certainly will when constuction start. You talk about deletions, are they variations or PS and PC adjustments? pleas list them 1 16571 I've decided, after a period of confusion (my building broker told me it's probably not worth it to use a lawyer, but others have said it is a must) that I definitely will… 7 27958 |