Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Dec 04, 2008 7:42 pm G'day all,
I'm about to settle on our new house...did the final inspection last night. I've had quite a few issues with the builder so please bear with me. We handed a set of custom designed plans to the builder - just a simple brick veneer unit on a sub-divided block. On the plans also showed 2 x carports with flat metal roofs to be built. We were given a quotation for the home which we signed. The quotation mentioned that instead of flat roof carports, we would receive tiled roof carports. Construction goes ahead. Just before the slab is poured I get invoiced by the builder for traffic control fee. He said that vicroads wanted to be involved in the traffic control for my site (as it is on a busy corner on Nepean Hwy) and therefore he has to past on the costs. I countered that in the contract it states the builder is responsible for traffic control costs. He said he did not forsee Vicroad being involved, hence I have to pay the extra costs. Am I liable for the fee? Anyway, slab goes down, frame's up, and brickwork is almost done. I come home one day to discover that above all the windowed areas, there are no bricks! I asked the SS what the hell is happening - he said that in the specs which I signed, it specified that cement sheeting will be used as window infills; I countered that the plans had no such provisions - everything was supposed to be bricks. He said too bad, I signed the specs. The next drama was the carports. Instead of tiled roof carports, they gave me metal flat roof ones! Once again, I was not informed of this until I saw them putting the sheeting onto the timber frame. I asked the SS about it and he said that it was impossible to build a tiled roof carport on a 5 degree pitch; furthermore, a metal roofed carport was on the plans. I countered that since specs takes precedent over plans (see infill issue above), I am entitled to my tiled roof carport, or a refund as I was quoted a tiled roof carport but did not received what was listed in the specs. He said to me that since my carport was made of zincalume, it is more expensive then tiles!! (I can accept that zincalume itself is more expensive then concrete tiles...but the whole carport MUST cost more due to extra work/engineering/support needed for tiled roof) To add insult to injury, one of the walls which faces the boundary fence wasn't cleaned - its a mess of dried mortar (see the pic in the building standards sub-forum). He said he won't clean it as its too difficult, etc etc. I've yet to make the final payment and I contacted CAV today who advise me the easiest course of action would be to make the final payment, move in, and start a formal dispute with CAV. What are your thoughts on this? Re: new house woes 2Dec 05, 2008 3:43 am I don't know if this is much help but I would talk to a conveyancer/solicitor to find out exactly what the contract/specs/plans entitled you to, and which takes priority. After 2 false starts, a year living overseas, two more world trips and 3 years of uncertainty we are now starting the build process again - hopefully for real this time! Re: new house woes 3Dec 05, 2008 3:49 am IMO put your dispute in writing listing all items, make no payment. Get a written repsonse. If not resolved to your satisfaction, take it to VCAT. Costs $290+. "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: new house woes 4Dec 05, 2008 7:03 am Nice to see that he's quick to mention the specs you signed but when it comes to the clause stating they would pay traffic control costs, they want leniency.
Unless there's something in that clasue which says that they will cover all "reasonable" traffic control costs, then they have to pay. It is unreasonable to expect them to pay the costs when Vic Roads come into it but given the location, it's not unforseeable that they would get involved so it's their bad luck. In regards to specs, what is signed you are bound by even if they are wrong. You have to negotiate the amendments to the original specs and a price for the amendments and sign off on them. This is mainly to do with the bricks around the windows. As for the carport, the builder shouldn't have put the tiled roof in the spec if it's impossible to do. If the builder wants to change materials in the carport it has to brought to your attention and a new costing for the carport prepared, not "oh this change will offset the cost of this change" done only by the builder. Of course the builder has to clean the wall. They made the mess, they have to clean it up otherwise it's not finished. If they are so terrible at what they do that they can't do a fairly clean job to begin with, that's not your fault. Don't worry about the conveyancer, go straight to a solicitor. If the builder is part of a professional organisation, like Master Builders or something, then have a look at their code of conduct in regard to changing plans without authorisation and also look at the building standards It's a complex one but I hope it works out in the end! Stevep79 & Principessa Finished building Wisdom Homes Impression 33mkII in The Ponds, Sydney http://lilypadintheponds.blogspot.com Re: new house woes 5Dec 05, 2008 8:18 am Well, that's the problem - I'm happy to take the hits with the infills as they are one the specs, but they also need to give me the tiled carports on the specs! They're just picking and choosing what they want to do - infills from the specs, and the carports from the plans. This is absolute CRAP.
After sending them a few email enquiring about the issue, this is what I get: ____________________________________________________________ Pay the builder who has done such a great job for you and we will talk then. If you want to pursue consumer rights that is fine but XXXX has done a great job and must be paid. Regards XXXXXXXXXX Customer Relations Officer N B G From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2008 8:26 PM To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Subject: RE: Colours XXXXX, Thank for you your investigation. I must express my disappointment with the service provided by your staff at National Builder's head office on the following issues: The brick vs windows infill issue - It is definitely shown on the plans (which you admitted in your reply dated 28/10/08) that BRICKS are supposed to be used over the windows, NOT infills. However, you made that change without consulting us. Asking us to sign the specs without explaining what infills are, is not consulting. Colour for the Infills - You omitted to let us choose the colour for the infills at the color selection stage. Carport - You made a mistake on your quotation and quoted us for a concrete tiled roof carport (per the specs) which we didn't end up getting. It is disturbing that the estimator (or whoever created the quote) cannot read the plans properly in the first place, or does not know that tiles cannot be laid on a roof below a certain degree of pitch. To rectify the above problems, we request you to do the following: Please advise if you choose to honour the specs or the plan; If you choose to honour the specs, please replace the tin carport with concrete tiled carport as specified in the specs. If you choose to honour the plan, please replace the infills above the windows with bricks; If you do not choose to do either (2) or (3) above, I will acquire 2 quotes, for both replacing the infills with bricks as well as replacing the carport, which will be forwarded to you. Upon receiving your reply, I will then settle the final payment minus the selected quote price. To avoid further disputation and trouble for both parties, I hope we can work together to resolve this issue by using one of the above methods. Unfortunately, if we cannot resolve these problems diplomatically, I would be left with no other option but to pursue my consumer rights with the proper authorities. Yours faithfully, XXXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > 04/12/2008 11:12 cc > AM "Hallbury Homes" >XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > Subject > RE: Colours > > > > > > > > > > > XXXXXXXX > I have checked once again and without giving you our pricing > intelligence I (along with our National Estimating manager and our > National Purchasing Manager )can assure you that our price for tin is > DEFINITELY more expensive than concrete tiles. Our price is based on the > price level that we build over 1000 homes per year. I cannot speak for > any other persons guess at prices. In fact you would owe us money if we > pushed the point as I have pointed out to you before. > > Regards >XXXXXXXXXXXX > Customer Relations Officer > NBG __________________________________________________________ Is THIS an example of a job well done? Should I pay 1st then continue the dispute? Re: new house woes 6Dec 05, 2008 8:31 am Love the way they say the builder has done a great job when obviously they haven't if there are such complaints.
I must admit, the tin roof more than likely is more expensive, if it's colourbond but it's interesting that they wouldn't charge the extra, not like a builder to do things out of their own pocket. Have you had an independent inspector in? Get one to not only inspect the work but also to compare work to the plans and write up a report of the deficiencies. A lot of inspectors can work with the builder on the resolutions instead of you having to do it, so at least they'd be talking to someone they would deem to be of more importance (not saying you're not important!). There seem to be an awful lot of horror stories relating to NBG lately, or maybe it's just my imagination. Interesting that they won't give you the pricings of the tin and tile roof for comparison seeing as though they'd be public knowledge if either was in your contract. Don't forget that NBG are always going to tell you to pay the builder before any disputes because it's in NBG and the builders best interests, not yours. If you want to persue your customer rights, then do so. Part of your right is to withhold final payment until the job is satisfactorily complete. Stevep79 & Principessa Finished building Wisdom Homes Impression 33mkII in The Ponds, Sydney http://lilypadintheponds.blogspot.com Re: new house woes 7Dec 05, 2008 9:17 am Whilst I agree that zincalume/colourbond maybe more expensive in itself when compared to tiles, I am 99% certain that as a WHOLE carport, a tiled one costs more. Just think of the extra weight it needs to carry - which means extra reinforcement/engineering.
I've gotten a few quotes from other builders which all says Tiled Carport is 25%-50% dearer then a zincalume/colourbond one. Its all in the framework/extra labour Re: new house woes 8Dec 05, 2008 9:24 am I would pay the builder but only 1/2. I would tell them that this half is being paid in good faith. As soon as they rectify the situation, you will pay them the other half. If they respond and say they will charge you interest on monies outstanding, you rebuke back and say you will charge them interest for the money that you have paid them.
Meanwhile, speak to your solicitor right away. Also speak to Consumer Affairs Vic and ask them to pay the builder a visit. May take 4 weeks, but hopefully the builder will sort out things much quickly once they know that consumer affairs is paying them a visit. I Re: new house woes 10Dec 05, 2008 9:37 am mek If you pay, you will most likely get nothing fixed afterwards. It's that simple. Whilst that is true, I'm really concerned that the builder will sue me or hit me with interest/penalty fees... Arrgh...speaking to a solicitor now. legal advice. 12Dec 05, 2008 5:35 pm Get yourself to a solicitor asap. Take all your letters & documents. Stick to the facts forget about tin should be cheaper & the extra weight. In fact colorbond is in fact more expensive. Dont threaten them with legal action as they may call your bluff. You need contractural advice. May I ask did you take your quot & contract to the solicitor to cheak first. Did you study about home building as to what are infills, roof types etc. Ive learnt the more you learn about the building industry the more you realize its a mine field. You will need to meet them 1/2 way. But see a solicitor asap.
Good luck & dont forget this is your new home, so enjoy it. KW “It's just as unpleasant to get more than you bargain for as to get less” George Bernard Shaw. Re: legal advice. 13Dec 05, 2008 6:05 pm King willy Get yourself to a solicitor asap. Take all your letters & documents. Stick to the facts forget about tin should be cheaper & the extra weight. In fact colorbond is in fact more expensive. Dont threaten them with legal action as they may call your bluff. You need contractural advice. May I ask did you take your quot & contract to the solicitor to cheak first. Did you study about home building as to what are infills, roof types etc. Ive learnt the more you learn about the building industry the more you realize its a mine field. You will need to meet them 1/2 way. But see a solicitor asap. Good luck & dont forget this is your new home, so enjoy it. KW I didn't get the quote and contract checked 1st by a solicitor. Nor did I know what infills are. I guess I was naive to think that if I provide them with a plan, they would build it according to the plan...and if they want to change stuff, they would have the courtesy to consult me 1st. Well, now that I know better...there sure as hell won't be a next time! Yes well there solution is to blame everyone else while I a 65yr old woman with major medical problems have to just continue to boil water and wash myself in a bucket… 2 15984 If you make sure all taps inside and out are turned off, what does the water meter show if you leave it for a while. 2 20226 13 6578 |