Builder refusing complete handover

ownerinproblem · Aug 12, 2024 10:21 pm

So, to cut story short. My builder kept the digital keys and all documents for the house with him and has given me partial handover

I am living in the house for last 3 weeks

I have been given manual key for the digital lock (which needs to be used by removing a cover everytime)

I have been given 1 garage remote, and remaining keys for the house

During the framing stage the $$@@ch builder told me that I cannot have a water point at the bottom of the toilet wall, he informed me its Australian regulations.

But after I researched and found out he is wrong, he agreed to move the water inlet point for toilet seat/flush BUT after gyprock was done.

Now, I am being asked to pay $2.5k more for this work! Wt&!

This is the second time he made a mistake and has asked me to pay for fixing it.

After talking to his soo called design team, I discovered they are overseas!

No wonder they Don’t know Australian regulations

Now, the conversation I have had with them is over emails and phone.

I never got to meet my SS, nor I saw him EVER in last 1.6 years!

The question is, is it legal for him to keep the digital keys for my house, not give me handover documents?

If he claims he has given partial handover, does it mean that his insurance still covers my house?

I am at a stage that I plan to leave a ver very bad review and expose his company’s overseas operations.

Spoke to a lawyer who said it will cost be same amount to study my case and draft a letter to the builder, and if he doesn’t respond then further action will take more money than what the builder is asking for!

But I am asking advice on how to get my documents

I am not going to give him my hard earned money, bi%%# made so many blunders and I have been frustrated off at his stupidity

chippy · Aug 12, 2024 11:17 pm

ownerinproblem
You sound like you have had so many issues, building should be an exciting and happy experience even if it can be slightly stressful.
Sounds like you've only had the stress and no happiness at all.
I will leave you to tell us the rest of the issues.
Can I ask one question though, what is the water point in the toilet for?

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 2:37 am

chippy

@ownerinproblem
You sound like you have had so many issues, building should be an exciting and happy experience even if it can be slightly stressful.
Sounds like you've only had the stress and no happiness at all.
I will leave you to tell us the rest of the issues.
Can I ask one question though, what is the water point in the toilet for?

Water inlet point for the toilet flush

Pedro4137 · Aug 13, 2024 7:44 am

Read your contract

All in there what to do, maybe info on partial handover

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 8:36 am

Pedro4137

Read your contract

All in there what to do, maybe info on partial handover

Contract says until all payment of not made, builder can refuse handover
But the problem is the amount for the variation was never agreed upon.

He just came up with a random figure to cover his cost for fixing other stuff before the handover

chippy · Aug 13, 2024 9:05 am

ownerinproblem

chippy

@ownerinproblem
You sound like you have had so many issues, building should be an exciting and happy experience even if it can be slightly stressful.
Sounds like you've only had the stress and no happiness at all.
I will leave you to tell us the rest of the issues.
Can I ask one question though, what is the water point in the toilet for?

Water inlet point for the toilet flush

Sorry I'm not following. He obviously had to supply a water inlet for the toilet, why did it matter where he located it? Many are now hidden behind the cistern for back to wall toilets.
Are you planning on attaching anything to the water outlet?

Pedro4137 · Aug 13, 2024 10:24 am

Look at contract for variation section, dispute section, final payment section

All in there and what each party have agreed on

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 10:31 am

chippy

ownerinproblem

chippy

@ownerinproblem
You sound like you have had so many issues, building should be an exciting and happy experience even if it can be slightly stressful.
Sounds like you've only had the stress and no happiness at all.
I will leave you to tell us the rest of the issues.
Can I ask one question though, what is the water point in the toilet for?

Water inlet point for the toilet flush

Sorry I'm not following. He obviously had to supply a water inlet for the toilet, why did it matter where he located it? Many are now hidden behind the cistern for back to wall toilets.
Are you planning on attaching anything to the water outlet?

Right, and we use bidet seat, for the bidet to work I needed connection for the water inlet, he put it behind the cistern and I was against it, I want to build house as per my needs not according to what the builder wanted.

He had ample time to get the water point at the bottom but because he didn’t want to move as per Australian regulations, I ended up suffering.

When I did find out he was wrong, and told him to move the point down, he said he will charge me 2k for moving the point and repairing the gyprock around the seat.
Which according to me is unfair as I had informed him to do the same at framing stage.

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 10:33 am

Pedro4137

Look at contract for variation section, dispute section, final payment section

All in there and what each party have agreed on

Right, that’s where he is not honouring the contract!

He wants money, doesn’t want to credit money for the missed work

And he doesn’t want to justify the cost he is asking me

It’s his way or the highway according to him.

Pedro4137 · Aug 13, 2024 12:44 pm

Have a dispute

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 1:54 pm

Pedro4137

Have a dispute

And that costs $550 , for dispute resolution by HIA which are there to support the builder not customers

Pedro4137 · Aug 13, 2024 2:17 pm

What about state authority (building)

Contract dispute

chippy · Aug 13, 2024 3:38 pm

ownerinproblem

chippy

ownerinproblem

Water inlet point for the toilet flush

Sorry I'm not following. He obviously had to supply a water inlet for the toilet, why did it matter where he located it? Many are now hidden behind the cistern for back to wall toilets.
Are you planning on attaching anything to the water outlet?

Right, and we use bidet seat, for the bidet to work I needed connection for the water inlet, he put it behind the cistern and I was against it, I want to build house as per my needs not according to what the builder wanted.

He had ample time to get the water point at the bottom but because he didn’t want to move as per Australian regulations, I ended up suffering.

When I did find out he was wrong, and told him to move the point down, he said he will charge me 2k for moving the point and repairing the gyprock around the seat.
Which according to me is unfair as I had informed him to do the same at framing stage.

Bidets are a contentious area. There are many regulations around what you can and can't do. Is your bidet Australian compliant (caries the watermark). Is it a bidet seats or just a hand spray?

ownerinproblem · Aug 13, 2024 9:25 pm

chippy

ownerinproblem

chippy

Sorry I'm not following. He obviously had to supply a water inlet for the toilet, why did it matter where he located it? Many are now hidden behind the cistern for back to wall toilets.
Are you planning on attaching anything to the water outlet?

Right, and we use bidet seat, for the bidet to work I needed connection for the water inlet, he put it behind the cistern and I was against it, I want to build house as per my needs not according to what the builder wanted.

He had ample time to get the water point at the bottom but because he didn’t want to move as per Australian regulations, I ended up suffering.

When I did find out he was wrong, and told him to move the point down, he said he will charge me 2k for moving the point and repairing the gyprock around the seat.
Which according to me is unfair as I had informed him to do the same at framing stage.

Bidets are a contentious area. There are many regulations around what you can and can't do. Is your bidet Australian compliant (caries the watermark). Is it a bidet seats or just a hand spray?

Yea, I bought Caroma Livewell Electronic bidet which comes with built in high hazard back overflow protection

But this was not the concern of the builder as heck he doesn’t even know a squat about RPZ

chippy · Aug 14, 2024 9:11 am

ownerinproblem

chippy

ownerinproblem

Right, and we use bidet seat, for the bidet to work I needed connection for the water inlet, he put it behind the cistern and I was against it, I want to build house as per my needs not according to what the builder wanted.

He had ample time to get the water point at the bottom but because he didn’t want to move as per Australian regulations, I ended up suffering.

When I did find out he was wrong, and told him to move the point down, he said he will charge me 2k for moving the point and repairing the gyprock around the seat.
Which according to me is unfair as I had informed him to do the same at framing stage.

Bidets are a contentious area. There are many regulations around what you can and can't do. Is your bidet Australian compliant (caries the watermark). Is it a bidet seats or just a hand spray?

Yea, I bought Caroma Livewell Electronic bidet which comes with built in high hazard back overflow protection

But this was not the concern of the builder as heck he doesn’t even know a squat about RPZ

Was all of this confirmed with the builder at pre Strat and noted on the plans? At what point did you tell the builder you were going to be using a bidet seats?

ownerinproblem · Aug 14, 2024 11:33 am

chippy

ownerinproblem

chippy

Bidets are a contentious area. There are many regulations around what you can and can't do. Is your bidet Australian compliant (caries the watermark). Is it a bidet seats or just a hand spray?

Yea, I bought Caroma Livewell Electronic bidet which comes with built in high hazard back overflow protection

But this was not the concern of the builder as heck he doesn’t even know a squat about RPZ

Was all of this confirmed with the builder at pre Strat and noted on the plans? At what point did you tell the builder you were going to be using a bidet seats?

At the framing stage, when I noted that the water outlet point is not at the bottom.

The point is not that he was aware, the point is the cost of moving it would have been there at the framing stage too, BUT after Gyprock was done, builder got a reason to charge me whatever he wants.

The bidet seat would be after handover thing , so that’s not a builder’s concern.

Thanks for taking time to help me out!

chippy · Aug 14, 2024 1:18 pm

ownerinproblem

chippy

ownerinproblem

Yea, I bought Caroma Livewell Electronic bidet which comes with built in high hazard back overflow protection

But this was not the concern of the builder as heck he doesn’t even know a squat about RPZ

Was all of this confirmed with the builder at pre Strat and noted on the plans? At what point did you tell the builder you were going to be using a bidet seats?

At the framing stage, when I noted that the water outlet point is not at the bottom.

The point is not that he was aware, the point is the cost of moving it would have been there at the framing stage too, BUT after Gyprock was done, builder got a reason to charge me whatever he wants.

The bidet seat would be after handover thing , so that’s not a builder’s concern.

Thanks for taking time to help me out!

But in all fairness if you didn't inform them at prestart that you needed the stop valve in an accessible position, but only informed them during construction then that is on you. They would charge you a variation fee for making the change and also for the work.
I'm not defending the builder as there are obviously some real concerns with the work done, however in this situation you are certainly in the wrong if you only informed them of your needs after the fact.
Yes, it may have been easier for him to change the water inlet during framing, however they were building the toilet to the plans you signed off on and not what you imagined in your head.
Unfortunately the project scope is defined in the plans and any change to the scope (addition of bidet) needs to be managed, in this case with a variation fee, etc.
Some small builders may be more flexible but ultimately that's how builders go broke by just allowing scope creep without managing it correctly.

ownerinproblem · Aug 14, 2024 2:00 pm

chippy

ownerinproblem

chippy

Was all of this confirmed with the builder at pre Strat and noted on the plans? At what point did you tell the builder you were going to be using a bidet seats?

At the framing stage, when I noted that the water outlet point is not at the bottom.

The point is not that he was aware, the point is the cost of moving it would have been there at the framing stage too, BUT after Gyprock was done, builder got a reason to charge me whatever he wants.

The bidet seat would be after handover thing , so that’s not a builder’s concern.

Thanks for taking time to help me out!

But in all fairness if you didn't inform them at prestart that you needed the stop valve in an accessible position, but only informed them during construction then that is on you. They would charge you a variation fee for making the change and also for the work.
I'm not defending the builder as there are obviously some real concerns with the work done, however in this situation you are certainly in the wrong if you only informed them of your needs after the fact.
Yes, it may have been easier for him to change the water inlet during framing, however they were building the toilet to the plans you signed off on and not what you imagined in your head.
Unfortunately the project scope is defined in the plans and any change to the scope (addition of bidet) needs to be managed, in this case with a variation fee, etc.
Some small builders may be more flexible but ultimately that's how builders go broke by just allowing scope creep without managing it correctly.

Correct, and I have not refused to pay him the money
BUT

He too owes me credit for not doing some of the stuff example insulation in the alfresco which was in my plan and I paid for it, and R2.5 Insulation in external garage wall too for which I paid

Now if I were to rectify this it will cost me money.

That’s one, then there are other stuff which he didn’t do, and on top of that delayed my house by 3 months

So, in all fairness, I asked him to tell me how much money would he credit me, so I can decide how much balance I would owe him to this he doesn’t want to bring it up

chippy · Aug 14, 2024 4:13 pm

ownerinproblem
Yes I understand that you have grievances that are fair enough. It sounds like they have been very difficult to deal with.
Ultimately you just need to keep referring to the plans and addenda as these form the basis for the scope of the product and thus the project overall.
The builderis legally responsible to fulfil the scope as you are legally responsible for paying for any variations you may have requested.
Unfortunately if you are past the point of being able to sit and negotiate them mediation through legal channels may be your only option.
I understand that having to spend extra money to protect your position may not be what you want to do, but at this point at a minimum I'd be getting a full inspection on the house that outlines all faults that need to be rectified in order to meet standards and the approved plans. This may then tip the power back into your hands as you have a stronger position to negotiate with if things happen to end up in court.

ownerinproblem · Aug 14, 2024 5:35 pm

chippy

@ownerinproblem
Yes I understand that you have grievances that are fair enough. It sounds like they have been very difficult to deal with.
Ultimately you just need to keep referring to the plans and addenda as these form the basis for the scope of the product and thus the project overall.
The builderis legally responsible to fulfil the scope as you are legally responsible for paying for any variations you may have requested.
Unfortunately if you are past the point of being able to sit and negotiate them mediation through legal channels may be your only option.
I understand that having to spend extra money to protect your position may not be what you want to do, but at this point at a minimum I'd be getting a full inspection on the house that outlines all faults that need to be rectified in order to meet standards and the approved plans. This may then tip the power back into your hands as you have a stronger position to negotiate with if things happen to end up in court.

I am already living at the property for last 3 weeks
Did an inspection before giving last payment as per the schedule

The inspection did not show anything major, inspector was happy with the house

I am not sure if the Builder’s insurance is covering my house as he technically has partial possession of the house

As for going via legal channel, then I already discussed and it’s going to cost more than what the builder is asking for…