Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 20, 2020 8:39 pm I am told most buiding inspectors are a waste of money in many forms. I am building a 25sq home single story home in western sydney, Domaine homes is the builder. Will a building inspector help. Can someone please recommend me a good building inspector ? Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 2May 20, 2020 9:00 pm I built with Clarendon who is the parent company for Domaine. They were great and I loved building with them, but even they missed stuff at every stage which was rectified straight away when identifed by my private inspector. I wouldn't build again without one Follow Our Clarendon - Double Gable, Hamptons Inspired Fairmont 35 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=94604 Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 4May 20, 2020 10:03 pm Qld sorry but there's plenty of forums here with suggestions. I got mine of a Homeone forum in Qld Follow Our Clarendon - Double Gable, Hamptons Inspired Fairmont 35 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=94604 Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 5May 21, 2020 8:26 am I just used one for our PC final inspection. Pretty much everything he found we did know about, but I found his value was in backing up our argument that defects were in fact defects. Its almost like having a 3rd party opinion (assuming the builder accepts this opinion which ours did) rather than client vs builder debate. Would I use one next time...? Probably depends on how many marginal defects I've found and I'm expecting to have to argue. If you aren't closely monitoring the entire build yourself then I'd recommend an inspector. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 6May 21, 2020 9:37 am Answer is both yes or no. A private inspector is your consultant, who provides his service/expertise to the owner, and has nothing to do with builder. It is up to you the owner to chase up with the builder and get the defects fixed. If you're confident of finding the faults and getting them fixed yourselves you probably don't need one. You also need to be mindful that the private building inspection is not your insurance for having a house defect free, they're purely in a consultation capacity. Hiring them from Contract Review till PCI will set you back by 3K approx. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 7May 21, 2020 11:03 am I'd suggest a typical approx. $400 pre-linings inspection report is critical. A professional should identify and document any significant defects before they are covered up with plaster and hidden. Accompany the inspector to ensure everything is checked and you understand the issues, how they are fixed, and relative importance. You can visit with the SS later to confirm the defects have been rectified before plastering starts. If you don't check yourself you can assume they have not been rectified. Your SS won't check: "It's all good!" The value of the other stage inspections' in the circa $2,000 'package' deal is questionable and very limited. The remaining $1,600 here is better spent elsewhere, particularly when you can easily see and check exposed surfaces carefully and slowly yourself. Private building consultants have no authority over the builder. Many builders have very little interest in, or respect for building consultants' reports, and these are not formatted for building tribunal cases therefore you might as well just do the other basic inspections yourself. If you want a report that has any legal credibility you will need to pay $1,000's for an expert witness report. Better to learn a bit about the relevant standards yourself, use a checklist, spend about $500 on some basic tools and protective gear at Bunnings that you can use to inspect yourself on your weekly 2 hour site visits, with the permission and / or assistance of your site supervisor. Take photos and document everything in the professional formats used in inspectors sample reports found online. The are some good examples of professional defect report formatting to be found here: https://www.darbecca.com.au/sample-reports.html Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 8May 22, 2020 10:28 am The inspection I am concerned most about is full water proofing in the bathrooms and that the colorbond roof does not leak. I am told by Jim's inspector that waterproofing inspection is not covered by them as there is a separate inception done my council or someone else which checks for water proofing in the bathrooms. Is the above correct ? Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 9May 25, 2020 11:21 am Small_Minds As a knowledgeable member and great advocate for the value of building consultants' defect inspection reports, can you please explain why some consultants cost about $250 per hour compared with an experienced craftsman carpenter with trade qualifications, detail skills, and the same knowledge of most referenced building standards and codes, who costs about $60 per hour? What are the key differences supporting such a disparity in cost? Some consultants are quoting a full suite of basic services including contract review, stage inspections defect reports, 1 x re-inspection and a final inspection at about $6,500. Additional costs are quoted for formatting reports for tribunals as well. In Victoria the unregistered (per the Building Act) building consultant has no authority over the builder or trades, and only provides defect reports (albeit comprehensive), usually leaving the home owners to address the defects identified directly with the builder or possibly later in actions at VCAT, NCAT, QBA etc. Dealing with builders alone on such issues when they dig their heels in is a daunting and potentially expensive proposition for most new home buyers, I think. I can certainly see the benefits of consultants defect reports for some stages, and I understand the HIA contract and relevant legislation. Its just the actual effectiveness and costs versus benefits of this $6,500 service that myself, and other members are questioning. I am interested in your thoughts about the $250 per hour rate of these consultants. Particularly in terms of the knowledge required, experience, equipment required, professional accreditation, licensing, registration, hours worked, administration, professional insurances etc. to produce these reports which contain a combination of original content as well as significant 'cut and paste' references and other standard content. Most of the more detailed members' comments I see about and by building consultants seems to echo emotive 'marketing speak' that seeks to leverage new home buyers' naivety and anxiety about building, and fear of defects. Some consultants appear to position themselves as the home buyers' champion 'going into battle' to provide them with 'insurance' against defects, which is potentially misleading. As well as being quite adversarial. Defect reports and home buyers' awareness can certainly help, but they don't in themselves assure building quality. Can you or other knowledgable members please offer your insights into the objective costs and benefits of building consultants' defect reports. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 10May 26, 2020 11:11 am Norfolk I'd suggest a typical approx. $400 pre-linings inspection report is critical. A professional should identify and document any significant defects before they are covered up with plaster and hidden. Accompany the inspector to ensure everything is checked and you understand the issues, how they are fixed, and relative importance. You can visit with the SS later to confirm the defects have been rectified before plastering starts. If you don't check yourself you can assume they have not been rectified. Your SS won't check: "It's all good!" The value of the other stage inspections' in the circa $2,000 'package' deal is questionable and very limited. The remaining $1,600 here is better spent elsewhere, particularly when you can easily see and check exposed surfaces carefully and slowly yourself. Private building consultants have no authority over the builder. Many builders have very little interest in, or respect for building consultants' reports, and these are not formatted for building tribunal cases therefore you might as well just do the other basic inspections yourself. If you want a report that has any legal credibility you will need to pay $1,000's for an expert witness report. Better to learn a bit about the relevant standards yourself, use a checklist, spend about $500 on some basic tools and protective gear at Bunnings that you can use to inspect yourself on your weekly 2 hour site visits, with the permission and / or assistance of your site supervisor. Take photos and document everything in the professional formats used in inspectors sample reports found online. The are some good examples of professional defect report formatting to be found here: https://www.darbecca.com.au/sample-reports.html Norfolk, your arguments have a lot of holes in it I have been assisting home owners with building stage inspections for over 15 years so I am qualified to talk about it, but I am not sure what you do From experience I recommend: Pre contract review, pre slab inspection, frame inspection, pre plaster inspection and pre final inspection. That is total of 5 inspections @ $600 each ( $650 for over 35 sq) = $ 3000) The value is for each person to work out for themselves You should visit my blog to find many who dearly wished they had them done, hair replacement cost them more. Also there is substantial value when your builder knows you have consultant looking after your build, after many years SS admitted they put better SS on the jobs where clients have consultants. It is important to monitor your build at critical stages and resave issues before they get too big or drag along to the finish. It s also for the comfort of the owner. It is true that stage reports are not formatted for VCAT but they don't need to be because it is more likely you will avoid a dispute. If a dispute happens then sure it will cost you a lot more for VCAT reports and expert witness attendance. It is also true that a consultant has no contractual standing but builders know that defect is a defect and if they are obstinate they will be in the cross hairs when the dispute goes to VCAT. As for lack of respect for the building consultants, ask the builders that lost against me in VCAT I am all for education but DIY inspection? How is average person going to know what to look for. I have seen plenty that have picked up plenty of fleas but missed the elephants. Perhaps you can enlighten us with your education and experience Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 11May 27, 2020 10:09 am building-expert Thanks for your engagement here. I appreciate your experience and expertise. I have read some of your blogs with great interest. I have no relevant building education or experience beyond just being a volume builder customer some years ago. I’m not an expert, just an active member of this consumer forum sharing information and helping where I can. I see the value in building consultants’ services and am certainly not advocating a full DIY approach. In Victoria the VBA requires mandatory building inspections by a registerred independent building surveyor as follows covering major structural and regulatory requirements: 1. Footings inspection – an inspection of the excavation, reinforcing and form work etc. in preparation for your house’s footings. 2. Slab inspection / base stage inspection – an inspection of your home’s concrete slab 3. Framing inspection – inspection of all the framing work for your home. 4. Final inspection – a thorough top-to-bottom inspection of the completed house for compliance with regulatory issues prior to the issuing of an “occupancy permit” or “certificate of final inspection”. At each mandatory inspection stage, a building surveyor must approve the work that has been done by the builder and issue an approval letter before work can continue. If any of the inspected works does not comply, by law it will need to be rectified to the satisfaction of the building surveyor or before approval is issued. This independent building surveyor can be appointed by the builder or directly by the homeowner. The cost of this service is included in the builder's contract price. I think a private unregisterred building consultant is useful as a ’second set of eyes’ for these inspections, however consumers should weigh up the costs and benefits here. Particularly if they have appointed the independent surveyor themselves, which is permitted in the Building Act. Spending up to $3,000 (est $250/hr) extra to double up on this set of key inspections seems a lot to me, personally. I do strongly suggest a typical approx. $400-$600 (est $250/hr) pre-linings defect inspection report is critical, engaging an experienced building consultant for this. This inspection is not covered by the registerred surveyor. A professional should identify and document any significant defects before they are covered up with plaster and hidden. The home buyer should accompany the inspector to ensure everything is checked and you understand the issues, how they are fixed, and relative importance. You can inspect later to confirm the defects have been rectified before plastering starts, avoiding the approx. $600 (est. $300/hr) re-inspection costs. If you don't check yourself you can assume they have not been rectified. This is where your ’elephants’ are usually identified. Once the walls and ceilings are plastered and brickworks completed an average person can walk through and easily check surfaces and other things with a few basic tools and the guide to standards and tolerances published by the VBA as a reference. Or employ a craftsman carpenter for a few hours at around $60 per hour. Documenting defects as you go. As its ’your’ new home you would probably be quite fastidious and certainly have more time to spend on details. On this basis I would question the value of the approx. total $2,500 (est. $300/hr) some building consultants charge for fixing, waterproofing and final inspections. These reports usually just identify the ’fleas’ you could easily pick up yourself anyway. I also question the value of a $440 (est $400/hr) contract review by a building consultant. The HIA contract is based on a standard template definitely favouring builders. It is correct some builders will ’slip in’ special clauses to minimise their risk that are unfavourable to the home owner. My suggestion is that everyone takes the time and reads their contract carefully before signing, making sure they understand every word, and the financial implications to them. Its quite well written and straightforward actually. Carefully check every line and price in price schedule, and the detail in your contract plans yourself. Again, understand everything yourself before signing. If after trying this you don't understand then ask a lawyer for help. If consumers want to propose significant variations to the contract I suggest its better to engage a qualified lawyer for this. I suggest the indication that having an building consultant means you will get a better site supervisor is unsubstantiated 'marketing speak'. After travel, meetings and admin time etc most site supervisors would be lucky to spend 30 minutes per week at each of their 15-20 sites. Their focus is basically whether the job has been done, not the workmanship. Its correct that if they know someone is checking they are more likely to check things themselves, however I doubt the builder would assign site supervisors based on the home buyer telling them they have engaged an inspector! Site supervisors are interchangeable, geographically deployed, and most builds will have multiple SS changes over the build time frame. Do you suggest better suppliers, sub contractors and tradespeople are employed also? I suggest most home buyers would employ an building consultant anyway? Certainly most members here seem to. Appearances at VCAT are another matter. These are often time consuming, expensive and risky for the homebuyer. I definitely agree an expert witness is valuable here and money well spent if it gets to this and the homeowner has the guts and finances to proceed. However VCAT actions are an additional set of services and consultant expertise to the basic stage inspections I am focussing on here. As you suggest, its best for home buyers to separate the building consultants' marketing messages and sales spiels from the facts to understand and consider the true value proposition in their individual circumstances, I think. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 12May 27, 2020 3:11 pm Norfolk If you don't have experience then you will believe everything you read. If you read DBCA1995 you will notice that breaches of the Act are subject to penalties but it is not written that in practice CAV does not enforce the penalties. Builder know this and do what they like. Your reading of mandatory inspections is correct but there is nothing to say that in practice whole lot of issues outside safety health and amenity are excluded. I will give you an example: Recently at a rather uneventful pre settlement inspection of a townhouse in a major development I noticed that the backyard was bare. As a developer myself I know that there would be endorsed town plan showing backyard landscaping; paving, plants, grass, shed etc. When I looked at the marketing material my clients only had copies showing blank and the devlopers ss saying that landscaping to rear yard was not included in the contract. The bottom line is that finished townhouse must comply with endorsed tp and approved building permit plans. OC should not have been issued by RBS because there is no compliance. Here we have one of Australia's largest developers handing over non compliant dwellings and keeping the change. Eighty units at $ 15000 cost of landscaping each = $ 1.2 M. Not bad, nice ill gotten bonus, it will buy you nice beach house in Tasmania and a Bentley. Will your $60/hr carpenter pick up on that? The bottom line is that we all get paid what we are worth. If you want a top gun you have to pay top money. About 20 years ago I had a commercial building dispute, My lawyer charged me $400/hr and I didn't blink. He was fantastic, for 20K fees he got me 300K If you are paying peanuts you will get monkeys (pretenders) BTW I had a building degree for 30 years before going back to uni to do Building Surveying to update and expand my knowledge of regulations. I guess your carpenter doesn't need to do that because he knows all that and to top it off he will be proficient in Building Contract administration. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 13May 27, 2020 4:41 pm Building-expert I am not sure your property developer example is relevant, or really representative of most registered VIC building surveyors' diligence conducting volume builder home inspections. I hope its not. Nor do your comments denigrating other building professionals project credibility and confidence in yourself. Can you provide some more relevant insights about building consultants' defect inspections to contribute to our discussion here? Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 14May 28, 2020 9:35 am It is very relevant, I was talking about pre final inspection. I a pre final inspection you should check for
The example I gave was No 3 The dwelling was non compliant at completion with tp because landscaping was omitted I have great respect for all professions and trades but they should each stick to their areas of expertise The reality is that most building surveyors outsource mandatory inspections to building inspectors. Building inspectors don't get paid much, as far as I know about $110/inspection. What will you get for that? There was a court case in which building surveyor lost because it was held he could not rely in good faith on an inspection report where inspector was paid so lowly. A wider problem is that some years ago Building Commission knew that there were hundreds of unqualified building inspectors doing mandatory inspections but didn't do anything about it. So we have doubtful mandatory inspections and a lack of pre plaster inspection as rightly you point out. You question whether other inspections are worth it other than pre plaster. I wrote about this before A very active member on this forum finished his home and used one of the inspection companies frequently mentioned on this forum. Shortly after completion he begun having site drainage problems. He ended up posting photos and site contours. I was the only one that pocked up (from photos) that his home was built 300mm too low.(his inspector did not pick it up) Had I done pre slab inspection I might not have picked up 50mm error in levels but would certainly pick up 300mm and would have recommended error be rectified before slab was poured. More often than not builders don't follow engineering recommendations, how are you going to pick up on that if you don't have inspections at critical points? BTW your mandatory inspection will not cross reference against your contract to see that you are getting what you are paying for and won't care about contract adjustment items. More than once I have found unexpended provisional sums not returned to the owners. In one case owner saved $600 not getting pre final inspection but dropped $15K Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 15Jun 07, 2020 2:53 pm Montu12 I am told most buiding inspectors are a waste of money in many forms. I am building a 25sq home single story home in western sydney, Domaine homes is the builder. Will a building inspector help. Can someone please recommend me a good building inspector ? I am in Victoria. If you know all the standards and can read all the plans and understand all the terminology at the start of a build then might not be necessary. I would think this may be only a small % of clients who use a project builder. If you are meant to have flexible couplings to all service pipes penetrating the slab/below slab would you know what to look for? if you are having a rain water tank installed do you know what correct installation looks like? What my inspection reports provided me was additional knowledge I could use with builder to end up with a house that would meet standards. PCI inspection is probably the one I could have done alone as it is much more about quality of finishes that with enough time you will notice many of these yourself. It is at the earlier inspections that the work of making sure frame was within tolerance and met standard, and house was sound that were more technical. For instance in my frame report, consultant identified H2 hazard rated timber installed where H3 was required, frame overhang, Some rust on welded parts of structural steel, incorrect blocking, maximum frame bracing length, where double studs were required and missing..... so many things I did not know to look for and I was excited the house was moving along. Some of these defects had not been identified by the registered building surveyor and would not have been visible by PCI. I did say to my private consultant at the inspections - I am happy if you find nothing, The inspections were for peace of mind. He found many defects. Your site supervisor with a volume builder may not check much of the work of trades and will likely not be a registered builder and stated above may not visit your site more than a few times per week and if they do it will likely be a quick stop in to give directions. Find a consultant that has been a registered builder and has qualifications and experience. Any cost up front during build may reduce repairs at cost to owner in life span of house. My neighbor was building at the same time as me with another volume builder. Her son who had some knowledge and had had a house built before was keeping an eye on the build for her and he felt confident. I had PCI before she did. After a conversation she decided to use my inspector for PCI only and he identified roof defects and a missing retaining wall in the garage among other things with a well known builder. When you are purchasing such a large asset/service and don’t have all the knowledge to assess the work can you afford not to engage a consultant. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 16Sep 08, 2021 10:43 pm Norfolk @Small_Minds As a knowledgeable member and great advocate for the value of building consultants' defect inspection reports, can you please explain why some consultants cost about $250 per hour compared with an experienced craftsman carpenter with trade qualifications, detail skills, and the same knowledge of most referenced building standards and codes, who costs about $60 per hour? What are the key differences supporting such a disparity in cost? Some consultants are quoting a full suite of basic services including contract review, stage inspections defect reports, 1 x re-inspection and a final inspection at about $6,500. Additional costs are quoted for formatting reports for tribunals as well. In Victoria the unregistered (per the Building Act) building consultant has no authority over the builder or trades, and only provides defect reports (albeit comprehensive), usually leaving the home owners to address the defects identified directly with the builder or possibly later in actions at VCAT, NCAT, QBA etc. Dealing with builders alone on such issues when they dig their heels in is a daunting and potentially expensive proposition for most new home buyers, I think. I can certainly see the benefits of consultants defect reports for some stages, and I understand the HIA contract and relevant legislation. Its just the actual effectiveness and costs versus benefits of this $6,500 service that myself, and other members are questioning. I am interested in your thoughts about the $250 per hour rate of these consultants. Particularly in terms of the knowledge required, experience, equipment required, professional accreditation, licensing, registration, hours worked, administration, professional insurances etc. to produce these reports which contain a combination of original content as well as significant 'cut and paste' references and other standard content. Most of the more detailed members' comments I see about and by building consultants seems to echo emotive 'marketing speak' that seeks to leverage new home buyers' naivety and anxiety about building, and fear of defects. Some consultants appear to position themselves as the home buyers' champion 'going into battle' to provide them with 'insurance' against defects, which is potentially misleading. As well as being quite adversarial. Defect reports and home buyers' awareness can certainly help, but they don't in themselves assure building quality. Can you or other knowledgable members please offer your insights into the objective costs and benefits of building consultants' defect reports. Its true what you say about consultants positioning themselves as 'champions' and the excessing marketing out to scare new home buyers especially first home buyers. If you see the fine print, there are a lot of exclusions as well, since they only do a visual inspection. An inspection of all 5 stages in VIC works out to approx $2500 which is crazy! It feels like everyone is just out to milk the end buyer! Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 18Sep 09, 2021 5:48 am strannik Would it be fair to say that the need for and the value you get out of building inspector depends on the kind of builder one is going with? Strannik You have totally hit the nail on the head with your comment. The reason you would need a building inspector with a project home builder is that your building inspector is doing the job of the builder's site supervisor. One of the key reasons that project homes are so much cheaper is that their site supervisors who are paid between $80-100k are looking after 15-20 homes each. A significant portion of the site supervisors aren't even qualified builders, but generally trades with a very limited skill set. The other way they keep costs down is by paying trades below market rates and then contractors are forced to rush work and take shortcuts so they can make a profit. I know several companies who pay framing carpenters around $40/hour ( half the market rate) so the carpenters do half a job and this gets missed. This is a terrible combination. In my experience, there is no way that a single human, no matter how good they are can adequately supervise the construction quality of so many homes and pick up on the all the defects and then chase the contractors and then reinspect to make sure the defects are fixed. Another issue is that a number of companies only pay their supervisors once each stage is finished so its in their interest to tick off a stage is finished and move onto the next as quickly as possible. On top that that, clients aren't allowed onsite to inspect work and are only given rushed inspection times when payments are due. We spend hours on frame inspections checking everything several times. In contrast, provided they are inducted and adhere to PPE our clients are welcome onto site everyday, if they have any questions or issues we talk it through and fix as needed. So yes, if you choose a project home builder due to your budget, you should allocate some money for a building inspector. Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 19Sep 09, 2021 8:50 am Yep. The step ladders on Metricon's site supervisors' utes are firmly bolted to the roof racks, they are never used onsite - just displayed as advertising props on the ute. Re: Is a building inspector worth it during construction? 20Sep 09, 2021 9:42 am Kippers01 Yep. The step ladders on Metricon's site supervisors' utes are firmly bolted to the roof racks, they are never used onsite - just displayed as advertising props on the ute. That is so funny! Thanks for the laugh Kippers Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. I would send it to the certifier who is technically your representative and working on your behalf not the builder's 1 10798 you can do frame @ roof on, windows in, rough-in done, wrap ready for clad, this way you can review all of those elements as well as slab, vapour barrier to slab edge,… 7 16465 Unless the builder was working as a sole trader, then you don't have the option to chase the builder 1 240 |