Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 25, 2023 9:44 pm Hello, The building surveyor has rightly picked up on a frame overhang issue with a small extension. I'm just wondering what the easiest solution to this is... Can I just add 20mm thick timber and bolt it onto the existing joists? Is this a sufficient solution? Or do I need to move the joists accordingly? Thanks in advance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 4Aug 26, 2023 11:52 am Move the joist. Get a multitool or reciprocating saw to cut the nails/screws. Move it out in line, the use some type 17 batten screws or a star drive landscape screw to pull through top plate and into joist. I predrill through the bottom plate and flooring first shank size, then filled hole with poly eurethane glue then ran the screw down. In an effort to get some glue between the flooring and joist. Dunno if it worked, no squeaks..... yet. Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 5Aug 26, 2023 3:40 pm Ardo Move the joist. Get a multitool or reciprocating saw to cut the nails/screws. Move it out in line, the use some type 17 batten screws or a star drive landscape screw to pull through top plate and into joist. I predrill through the bottom plate and flooring first shank size, then filled hole with poly eurethane glue then ran the screw down. In an effort to get some glue between the flooring and joist. Dunno if it worked, no squeaks..... yet. Thanks. Sounds like a plan Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 6Aug 26, 2023 3:46 pm Klogg Hello, The building surveyor has rightly picked up on a frame overhang issue with a small extension. I'm just wondering what the easiest solution to this is... Can I just add 20mm thick timber and bolt it onto the existing joists? Is this a sufficient solution? Or do I need to move the joists accordingly? Thanks in advance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Klogg Is the overhang the only thing he picked up on? Apologies in advance for being negative, but to me there are a bunch of things wrong in your photo with the carpentry not to mention the main issue is that your pier is in the wrong position. Did you have a surveyor set out the pier location for you? The problem with moving the joist is that it needs to sit directly on the pier and I don't think you have used the correct timber for this application. You have the whole extension resting on two pieces of unlaminated and untreated 90x 35mm pieces of timber. Also what is the strength rating of your untreated joists? It it were me, I would have adjusted the height of the pier and had the joists sitting on an LVL which can span between your piers rather than 90 x 35's. Also, what are you using for your connections? At this point, other than hiding your overhang, I would be surprised if a 20mm piece of timber would add any structural integrity. I genuinely don't think this workmanship is safe. I would move the pier and straight up the joists and try to laminate a piece of LVL to them. Wish I could have been more positive with an easy solution Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 7Aug 26, 2023 6:53 pm Ashington Homes Klogg Hello, The building surveyor has rightly picked up on a frame overhang issue with a small extension. I'm just wondering what the easiest solution to this is... Can I just add 20mm thick timber and bolt it onto the existing joists? Is this a sufficient solution? Or do I need to move the joists accordingly? Thanks in advance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Klogg Is the overhang the only thing he picked up on? Apologies in advance for being negative, but to me there are a bunch of things wrong in your photo with the carpentry not to mention the main issue is that your pier is in the wrong position. Did you have a surveyor set out the pier location for you? The problem with moving the joist is that it needs to sit directly on the pier and I don't think you have used the correct timber for this application. You have the whole extension resting on two pieces of unlaminated and untreated 90x 35mm pieces of timber. Also what is the strength rating of your untreated joists? It it were me, I would have adjusted the height of the pier and had the joists sitting on an LVL which can span between your piers rather than 90 x 35's. Also, what are you using for your connections? At this point, other than hiding your overhang, I would be surprised if a 20mm piece of timber would add any structural integrity. I genuinely don't think this workmanship is safe. I would move the pier and straight up the joists and try to laminate a piece of LVL to them. Wish I could have been more positive with an easy solution Cheers Simeon Appreciate the feedback Can confirm all the correct timber was used. I didn't put it together, but I did buy the materials, all specified in the design/engineering. Laminating an LVL in this case would be overkill given the size and weight of the structure. I think the best way would be to add another MGP10 H3 joist and put the three together with a bolt (and extend the joist hanger). I was just wondering if that actually had to happen or if I can add 20mm of something to cover the gap. Looks like I need to adjust the location of joists Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 8Aug 26, 2023 7:04 pm Ashington Homes Klogg Hello, The building surveyor has rightly picked up on a frame overhang issue with a small extension. I'm just wondering what the easiest solution to this is... Can I just add 20mm thick timber and bolt it onto the existing joists? Is this a sufficient solution? Or do I need to move the joists accordingly? Thanks in advance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Klogg Is the overhang the only thing he picked up on? Apologies in advance for being negative, but to me there are a bunch of things wrong in your photo with the carpentry not to mention the main issue is that your pier is in the wrong position. Did you have a surveyor set out the pier location for you? The problem with moving the joist is that it needs to sit directly on the pier and I don't think you have used the correct timber for this application. You have the whole extension resting on two pieces of unlaminated and untreated 90x 35mm pieces of timber. Also what is the strength rating of your untreated joists? It it were me, I would have adjusted the height of the pier and had the joists sitting on an LVL which can span between your piers rather than 90 x 35's. Also, what are you using for your connections? At this point, other than hiding your overhang, I would be surprised if a 20mm piece of timber would add any structural integrity. I genuinely don't think this workmanship is safe. I would move the pier and straight up the joists and try to laminate a piece of LVL to them. Wish I could have been more positive with an easy solution Cheers Simeon Also just to confirm Yes surveyor marked out/approved the subfloor/holes None of the timber is untreated I'm unsure of connections, but again subfloor was passed. The only issue identified was the frame overhang Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 9Aug 27, 2023 10:23 am Klogg Ashington Homes Klogg Hello, The building surveyor has rightly picked up on a frame overhang issue with a small extension. I'm just wondering what the easiest solution to this is... Can I just add 20mm thick timber and bolt it onto the existing joists? Is this a sufficient solution? Or do I need to move the joists accordingly? Thanks in advance. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Klogg Is the overhang the only thing he picked up on? Apologies in advance for being negative, but to me there are a bunch of things wrong in your photo with the carpentry not to mention the main issue is that your pier is in the wrong position. Did you have a surveyor set out the pier location for you? The problem with moving the joist is that it needs to sit directly on the pier and I don't think you have used the correct timber for this application. You have the whole extension resting on two pieces of unlaminated and untreated 90x 35mm pieces of timber. Also what is the strength rating of your untreated joists? It it were me, I would have adjusted the height of the pier and had the joists sitting on an LVL which can span between your piers rather than 90 x 35's. Also, what are you using for your connections? At this point, other than hiding your overhang, I would be surprised if a 20mm piece of timber would add any structural integrity. I genuinely don't think this workmanship is safe. I would move the pier and straight up the joists and try to laminate a piece of LVL to them. Wish I could have been more positive with an easy solution Cheers Simeon Also just to confirm Yes surveyor marked out/approved the subfloor/holes None of the timber is untreated I'm unsure of connections, but again subfloor was passed. The only issue identified was the frame overhang Klogg I am honestly not trying to be an internet troll or too negative, but I promise you that your framing is not complaint or in my opinion safe. I do this for a living, and inspecting frames is a key part of my role. The fact that the inspector/certifier passed it, just means he is a complete moron, not that your framing is correct. I inspected some frames on another builders site last week that had been passed by a certifier and every single joist was held in place with Triple L grips, not joist hangers! ( for those readers who don't understand what I am talking about, Triple L grips are brackets designed to hold roof trusses down not the weight of floor joists) Additionally, the entire second floor frame was held down with 40mm roofing screws directly into the 75mm Hebel flooring, not the frame below. Ie the frame was being held in place by gravity. A certifier had passed this as compliant. Most certifiers have no clue what they are looking at. I showed your photo to a number of licensed builders in our builders whatsapp group and asked them to come back and tell me what was wrong without any context, and the most popular responses were "Everything" or "LOL" or "The sh#t carpenters get away with" As an owner builder, it is your choice as to the standards you accept for your own property, so if you think I am wrong, knock your socks off and add a piece of 20mm timber to hide the overhang. It won't help structurally, but at least you can hide the poor workmanship. All the best Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 10Aug 27, 2023 10:47 am Ashington Homes Klogg Ashington Homes Klogg Is the overhang the only thing he picked up on? Apologies in advance for being negative, but to me there are a bunch of things wrong in your photo with the carpentry not to mention the main issue is that your pier is in the wrong position. Did you have a surveyor set out the pier location for you? The problem with moving the joist is that it needs to sit directly on the pier and I don't think you have used the correct timber for this application. You have the whole extension resting on two pieces of unlaminated and untreated 90x 35mm pieces of timber. Also what is the strength rating of your untreated joists? It it were me, I would have adjusted the height of the pier and had the joists sitting on an LVL which can span between your piers rather than 90 x 35's. Also, what are you using for your connections? At this point, other than hiding your overhang, I would be surprised if a 20mm piece of timber would add any structural integrity. I genuinely don't think this workmanship is safe. I would move the pier and straight up the joists and try to laminate a piece of LVL to them. Wish I could have been more positive with an easy solution Cheers Simeon Also just to confirm Yes surveyor marked out/approved the subfloor/holes None of the timber is untreated I'm unsure of connections, but again subfloor was passed. The only issue identified was the frame overhang Klogg I am honestly not trying to be an internet troll or too negative, but I promise you that your framing is not complaint or in my opinion safe. I do this for a living, and inspecting frames is a key part of my role. The fact that the inspector/certifier passed it, just means he is a complete moron, not that your framing is correct. I inspected some frames on another builders site last week that had been passed by a certifier and every single joist was held in place with Triple L grips, not joist hangers! ( for those readers who don't understand what I am talking about, Triple L grips are brackets designed to hold roof trusses down not the weight of floor joists) Additionally, the entire second floor frame was held down with 40mm roofing screws directly into the 75mm Hebel flooring, not the frame below. Ie the frame was being held in place by gravity. A certifier had passed this as compliant. Most certifiers have no clue what they are looking at. I showed your photo to a number of licensed builders in our builders whatsapp group and asked them to come back and tell me what was wrong without any context, and the most popular responses were "Everything" or "LOL" or "The sh#t carpenters get away with" As an owner builder, it is your choice as to the standards you accept for your own property, so if you think I am wrong, knock your socks off and add a piece of 20mm timber to hide the overhang. It won't help structurally, but at least you can hide the poor workmanship. All the best Simeon Once again - I can confirm the correct timber is used. The designer specified it, the permit was granted, I bought it and the carpenter confirmed it. It meets standards. Other than the joist not being straight and above the stump, the rest isn't really in question despite what you've said. It's very easy to say it's wrong, but outside of the stump/joist alignment (which is known) you've given me no facts. I've no doubt you're experienced and perhaps my photo is a bad one. But my original question is around the standard and what's required. Please stick to the question. Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 11Aug 27, 2023 11:47 am Regardless of right and wrong the practical solution is to just add another floor joist and plane it down at narrow end (near the house to align with wall frame above, use the added joist as packing. Your bearer will need to be cut back as well as your joist to align. I think that will pass. When you look at the timber bolted to stump, it will all align with base boards. Move on. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Frame Overhang Solutions 12Aug 27, 2023 12:24 pm building-expert Regardless of right and wrong the practical solution is to just add another floor joist and plane it down at narrow end (near the house to align with wall frame above, use the added joist as packing. Your bearer will need to be cut back as well as your joist to align. I think that will pass. When you look at the timber bolted to stump, it will all align with base boards. Move on. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Perfect. Thank you. Thanks Ardo, they are sort of semi concealed. I think it is only a few millimetres. I see if they can adjust the hinges. 4 3821 I would find out how deep your clay base is and depending on the depth install a cut off drain which is more than a normal agi drain. Where the neighbouring walls is… 2 3165 This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 8075 |