Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Oct 29, 2008 9:24 pm I am currently building my first home through MCon. We are up to lock up and so far things have gone fairly well....until the invoices started arriving. At contract signing we were given an estimate of $2500 for the rock provisional sum. when we questioned this with our csc she said it had to be accurate and we "might even get some money back". once they started excavation our ss sent us photos of the rock and told us how much the costs were. total at that time was around $2500. we thought that was it until the invoices started arriving. to date we have now received $14500 in rock removal invoices payable by us with no explanation given. we emailed them immediately and were told the estimate was accurate given the information they had but to help us out they would drop approx $3000 from the total. I have spoken to the building commission who asked me to submit a formal complaint, which i have done. I'm still awaiting the reply and will let you know the outcome but i wanted to warn other first time builders to not rely on companies just because they are building in the area and have 30 years experience apparently they haven't learnt anything in that time! Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 3Oct 29, 2008 9:40 pm By definition a Provisional Sum is a reasonable estimate for material and labour of a particular part of a project for which a contractor cannot give a definite price for...it's clear that the initial estimate was not reasonable and you have every right to question and challenge the claim...an order of magnitude out is unacceptable....Whatacon indeed....(thanks Stormy). mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 4Oct 29, 2008 11:29 pm OMG, this is terrible
I am glad that my builder fixed the cost after the second soil test Hope you can work it out with big M Blog - http://clageonewhouse.blogspot.com/ Building Thread - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10886&hilit=milan I am in, with my husband and my beautiful bunny Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 5Oct 30, 2008 6:20 am I've said it once and I'll say it again, excavation prices that M-con charge are there bread and butter. I remember looking at an M-con house, got initial prices and they quoted me 14k for excavation, I started laughing , and the Sales guys ask me why I was laughing, $14k is the best joke I've heard all day..... and I just simply walked away.
But, good on you Sarah, I wish you the best of luck with your outcome. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 6Oct 30, 2008 7:18 am Snake got initial prices and they quoted me 14k for excavation, I started laughing At least they were up front about it though...if they've done the prerequisite number of soil tests they should be able to inform the client reasonably early in the process what a reasonable provisional sum should be, yes the client may not be happy about the change, but better to know upfront and make a go-no-go on the house, then be slugged an additional $10k out of the blue. And yes I'm not that naive that I don't realise that they do it to avoid losing a contract. mmm....donuts Homer Simpson 1956- Links: Site Costs Ready Reckoner | H1 Addiction Medical Advice | Château TDL: The Backyard Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 7Oct 30, 2008 7:24 am to_do_list Snake got initial prices and they quoted me 14k for excavation, I started laughing At least they were up front about it though...if they've done the prerequisite number of soil tests they should be able to inform the client reasonably early in the process what a reasonable provisional sum should be, yes the client may not be happy about the change, but better to know upfront and make a go-no-go on the house, then be slugged an additional $10k out of the blue. And yes I'm not that naive that I don't realise that they do it to avoid losing a contract. Very true Mike, but sometimes the price quotation is just plain old highway robbery and they must know that aswell. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 9Oct 30, 2008 10:52 am We are about to start building in hillside in the parks and have been quoted by henley $15000 for the rock provision which is looking unlikely we will get back as my neighbour advised me that they fould HEAPS of rock. Unfortunatly the area is full or rock. Although henley have capped the rock costs at $17250 I still wasnt impressed conisdering site fees and rock provision totalled over $25000. Henley will cap the site fees at 15% more than their original quote.
Good luck with it all.. Hope there are no further hiccups Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 10Oct 30, 2008 12:31 pm Snake I've said it once and I'll say it again, excavation prices that M-con charge are there bread and butter. I remember looking at an M-con house, got initial prices and they quoted me 14k for excavation, I started laughing , and the Sales guys ask me why I was laughing, $14k is the best joke I've heard all day..... and I just simply walked away. But, good on you Sarah, I wish you the best of luck with your outcome. is the term 'excavation' different to 'site costs'? so they would then have been asking you to pay 14k plus X-amount for site costs? [sneakersss] Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 11Oct 30, 2008 5:54 pm If your CSC said it had to be accurate, and you may get some back, you've got a huge advantage on your side. Anything like that can be taken as factual, and if taken to court you'd win 9 of 10 fights!
Best thing when building is to keep a diary of conversation like this... I'd be pushing it all back to M. What was the point of their soil/site survey? It's M's way of cashing in.... Just wait for the extension of time claims to come through!!! Electrical Engineer... Don't hold that against me... And keen owner builder... Mainly the building part!! Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 12Nov 01, 2008 1:29 pm thanks all for the supportive comments. it is nice to know i'm not just overreacting! I have received a letter from the building comission acknowledging receipt of my complaint however they are very busy at the moment and it may take a few weeks to be contacted. looks like a lot of people are having trouble with builders at the moment! Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 13Nov 01, 2008 9:56 pm All Standard building contracts have 15% max capping on all provisional sums, that is builders cannot exceed a estimated provisional sum by more than 15%, but ofcourse they may rely on clients not kowing this and keep sending invoices (which they cannot do without approved contract variation and subsequent extension of times) the building commission will help eventually. and guide you through this but will take time, soil tests do not show extent of rock, they normally just do 3 bore holes unless requested for more. furthermore $14,000 for rock floaters removal is excessive. but suitable for stable rock foundations and site excavation through solid ground work. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 14Jan 05, 2009 6:37 am In most of other countries groundwork is much more cheaper and workers perform better. Sometimes it is better if we choose company which applies foreign employees. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 15Jan 05, 2009 6:58 am How many cubic meters do you have of rock??
i would say more than $200-250 per cubic meter is excessive. Another point to consider is when pulling rock from the ground the builder only gets charged extra if a) rockblusting is required b) jack hummer is required. However if the above is not applicable and plenty of small rocks are excuvated then removal cost is still required to remove and dump which is not as much as the cost above. . You may want to make sure if you believe you have plenty of rock to ensure you are going on waffle slab. This way you will only be digging for plumbing works and not trenches. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 16Jan 05, 2009 3:15 pm Quickone.
I am just about to start building with Mcon and I know my land is very rocky from the excavation of the roads during development. I asked if the rock removal can be capped for a little extra in the site costs. For ruffly $2k extra in the site costs I now have rock removal covered for up to half a million in my contract. So if you know you going to have rock make sure you ask for this. Also the amount you pay may be more or less depending on solid tests and block slope. Because I fixed the site costs I will not get anything back it no rock is removed, but it gave me good peice of mind. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 17Jan 05, 2009 5:15 pm Having worked in the construction industry and going through dealing with rock at the moment with construction of my new home, I've got a pretty good idea about it.....
I believe the 15% (every contract is different though) relates to the amount of margin on top of a trades invoice - not what they can charged you. Soil tests can only give some idea and as I tell my clients (and now myself) it would be wonderful if builders could accuratley forecast who much rock to expect, but they can't! I had a soil test done on our block and had no rock, site cut is done and we have a mammoth boulder in our backyard now! I am realistic that there was nothing that could be done and it needs to get out. It sucks and I wish I had the money to spend on landscaping or something else, but nothing can be done! Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 18Jan 13, 2009 10:01 pm While building with Henley prov amount was $1500 got a bill for additional $7500 asked for a breakdown of costs ie hours of work for excavator and hourly rate as i am entitled to by law was being charged for 25 hrs on excavator use when it broke down for 4 hrs and was onsite and henley plumber left for another job for 3 hrs so operator sat there and waited.
Make sure you get a breakdown of these charges as Henleys charge 25% builders margin. Bill was altered after site meeting with Victorian state supervisor still tried to keep 25% builders margin until i told him it was calculated on new amont .final bill was $4200. Re: Rock removal charges from MCon 19Jan 13, 2009 10:09 pm well if you can get it capped that's terrific and well worth doing for peace of mind. We've had an additional $ cost for extra rock removal and for slay removal on top of extra high earthworks costs to start with.
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