Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 42Nov 29, 2022 8:09 pm I'm not with any of the builders one could find at Homeworld. If weather, covid, labour and material shortages were to blame, how does this affect one builder but not so much for the other in the same area? I've experienced first hand the unexpected delay on one thing and the length it took to fix it could make a hell of a day so I do have sympathy with my builder and be as cooperative and friendly as possible. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 43Nov 29, 2022 8:29 pm housenoob how does this affect one builder but not so much for the other in the same area? That's an easy one to answer, Some builders have no respect for the trades and clients. You'll find those builders are the last I would work for... Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 44Nov 30, 2022 4:08 am housenoob I'm not with any of the builders one could find at Homeworld. If weather, covid, labour and material shortages were to blame, how does this affect one builder but not so much for the other in the same area? I've experienced first hand the unexpected delay on one thing and the length it took to fix it could make a hell of a day so I do have sympathy with my builder and be as cooperative and friendly as possible. Housenoob This is a really interesting question and it was part of the reason why I posted in this thread. My duplex is in Parklands Road North Ryde, it is a little pocket with 3 main streets which is going through a massive regeneration of 1950's cottages. There would be at least 12-15 builds underway at the moment, a lot of duplexes and some double story homes. I try and drive past as many of the nearby builds as I can each day to track the competition, some who started well before me have totally stalled and are stuck at frame stage ( I am getting frustratingly close to lock up), and a couple are going really well. But one that has really impressed me has been a Wisdom build which has been flying along. They had a great team of framers, brickies and renderers and have made really good progress. I am not sure how they are structured internally and how much power the site supervisors have for finding their own trades, but perhaps that is the key, a good supervisor who hustles harder than others. I didn't want my post yesterday to be all doom and gloom, because it isn't. I was just trying to point out how much harder it is to be building in 2022 than it was in 2019. I built my own home, 450sqm double story, swimming pool, heaps and heaps of retaining walls in under 6 months. I don't think I could do that anymore. My duplex is a lot more complicated design wise, and there is 2 of everything but as hard as I try it will be a 12 month build, but that includes demolition through to landscaping. Believe you me, everyday we are hustling to get the boys to all our job sites but there comes a point when you don't want to sacrifice quality and you don't want every trade hating you because you are yelling and screaming so you have to find a balance and accept that there are some things out of your control. You have to maintain relationships and you also need to focus on using boys you trust so you can deliver quality for your clients. We currently have around 7 builds on with a few more starting in the next month, So one thing we try and do is pay our boys as soon as we receive an invoice so they remain loyal to us. We also try hard to give our clients realistic timeframes and communicate if things change. Anyhow, glad your build went so well. You should give your builder a shout out! And despite all the daily challenges, we have some amazing clients and great boys who make nearly every day fun, so I wouldn't want to be doing anything else! Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 45Nov 30, 2022 7:00 am WisdomHomes Whilst we respect the right of people to express their views and opinions on this forum, the post made in this thread by Mark Ashcroft contains false and incorrect statements. As per Mark’s own comments, the intention of his post is to cause damage to Wisdom in public. Mark, for the reasons set out in detail to you by email this evening, Wisdom Homes considers the matters raised here are false and incorrect. Wisdom disputes the points raised and that the home is delayed or behind schedule in anyway. We remain within your build timeframe and on schedule to complete PCI within your contract period. Our staff have communicated with Mark regularly throughout his pre-Site and Construction process and have responded professionally at all times to his many escalations. We have again communicated directly to Mark this evening. It is important to note that comments/threads on this Forum are often one side of the story and it is not appropriate for Wisdom Homes to enter into dialogue with customers in this public forum. If anyone ever has any concerns or experiencing any issues with Wisdom, please contact your Wisdom representative and we will discuss it directly with you. We do not intend to engage further on this thread but felt it important to correct the false information presented in this post. WisdomHomes it is obvious the building industry is currently experiencing challenges due to internal and trades labour shortages, escalating costs, and interest rate rises. Many potential customers would be thinking more than twice about signing a contract with any builder in this environment.The HIA has confirmed this broad sentiment last week. Mark_Ashcroft has been frustrated by the inevitable delays and innapropriate communication about these from Wisdom Homes. It his clear the intention of his posts are to prompt Wisdom to build his home within the contracted 44 weeks, and not as you state to "cause damage to Wisdom in public". Given all the circumstances including his personal situation, your hardline legalistic / marketing / social media templated approach intended to shut him down is innapropriate here. It harks back to Wisdom's recent pre ACCC action days. Mark has sought to leverage social media to escalate, which i feel is appropriate and effective here. For clarity and transparency can Wisdom Homes please advise which specific statements, in what specific post are "false and incorrect" and why? His comments appear factual to me. Without these details your vague template response here lacks any credibility. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 46Nov 30, 2022 8:07 am Kippers01 For clarity and transparency can Wisdom Homes please advise which specific statements, in what specific post are "false and incorrect" and why? His comments appear factual to me. Without these details your vague template response here lacks any credibility. they have no obligation to do this for you or anyone else. Its safe to say you wont be hearing any more from them on this and its likely we wont be hearing from Mark either. I did warn him earlier that unless he could back up his statements he was treading a thin line. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 47Nov 30, 2022 8:32 am noname of course they don't. However i think it will reflect poorly on Wisdom Homes credibility and brand reputation if they strongly claim their personally identified customers are mis-representing facts here but don't explain actually how. Who would you believe? I note Mark's comments here are quite detailed and specific whilst WisdomHomes is simply a vague and 'legalese' template response. We are not talking about any questionable online avatar's comments here. Mark is confirmed as a real Wisdom Homes customer and any innapropriate comments made about him can have serious consequences. I fear you are probably right about Wisdom taking "the appropriate action" to simply shut Mark down. Not everyone can afford lawyers' fees circa $600 per hour or has the resources of the ACCC to respond appropriately and safely in these situations. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 48Nov 30, 2022 10:02 am Noname Kippers01 For clarity and transparency can Wisdom Homes please advise which specific statements, in what specific post are "false and incorrect" and why? His comments appear factual to me. Without these details your vague template response here lacks any credibility. they have no obligation to do this for you or anyone else. Its safe to say you wont be hearing any more from them on this and its likely we wont be hearing from Mark either. I did warn him earlier that unless he could back up his statements he was treading a thin line. I did reply to their personal email last night and they did make statements to us that were false and incorrect that we can back up with photographic evidence and messages sent. I never stated it was my intent to damage Wisdom. It was a last ditch to get help after the lack of correspondence from the start. I know of their responses to social media & that's why I didn't hide. I would just say to everyone to keep a record of every correspondence, take their calls on loud speaker in front of a third person & take photos of your site as often as you can. I'm lucky to be able to do this most every day. Not going into it all. At lease there's something happening now. I'm not concerned with anyones opinions. If we can work it out I'll take it done. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 49Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am Kippers01 @noname of course they don't. However i think it will reflect poorly on Wisdom Homes credibility and brand reputation if they strongly claim their personally identified customers are mis-representing facts here but don't explain actually how. Who would you believe? I note Mark's comments here are quite detailed and specific whilst WisdomHomes is simply a vague and 'legalese' template response. We are not talking about any questionable online avatar's comments here. Mark is confirmed as a real Wisdom Homes customer and any innapropriate comments made about him can have serious consequences. I fear you are probably right about Wisdom taking "the appropriate action" to simply shut Mark down. Not everyone can afford lawyers' fees circa $600 per hour or has the resources of the ACCC to respond appropriately and safely in these situations. It doesn't reflect poorly on them at all. This is exactly along the playbook lines on how to manage these incidents publicly without it devolving to a slinging match. I think you place too much value in what a company says rather than over how they act. And in this case their action is to make a brief statement defending their position and setting some facts straigt. Anything more than this is unnecessary. they key points here are that Mark is claiming delays - wisdom has said the home is on track to be built within the 44 week contract period. SO Id say marks coments dont really support anything other than he's freaking out unnecessarily at this point while he's still in teh contract period because somone else is progressing faster than him. This is the equivalent of picking a line at macdonalds, only to see the other lines move faster than yours and getting upset about the line you are in. His comments might hold some weight AFTER the 44 week contract period if his home is still not built. As you yourself know, there are delays in building. Some of that is baked into the contract period. Even though delays may happen, time can also be made up. I'm currently following an Instagram account where a 45 week contract build is in week 73 and counting. THAT is a delay. THAT is a travesty. THAT is causing untold amounts of stress to the clients due to the ongoing ineptitude of that particular builder. At this stage Marks situation while undoubtedly stressful, doesn't appear to be being made more stressful by the builder, but by mark's seemingly unreasonable expectations of the builder that is currently operating within the terms of their contract. What else do you want? The builder has claimed Marks comments contain inaccuracies and don't reflect the actual situation and have themselves offered that they are operating inside the terms of the contract. I can guarantee you that the builders response is thought out and can be backed up. How many times have you seen upset clients lash out and actually be in the wrong? spoiler alert - Almost always when they get to this stage (getting on forums and getting angry). People who are wrong don't get "shut down". They are presented with the reality of the situation they are creating and are given the choice to cease doing so or if they chose to continue, can defend their position legally. The "shut down" is often by the client themselves because they realise they are unable to stand by their comments with anything that resembles the proof they claim of their contractual terms not being met. Don't forget emotional outbursts are often hyperbole and that is as good as false. You dont really need a lawyer, let alone one that cost 600 bucks an hour to claim an egregious breach of contract. An email/letter outlining the breach with undeniable proof to teh builder is generally all it takes to get a positive outcome for free. Right now mark is taking pictures of the weather daily. His mind is so clouded by his seemingly unfounded rage that he doesn't even realise you can just get the data from the BOM....an arguably much more reliable independent source. Even with this data, if the house is completed in the contract period, its useless stress he's creating for himself. Anyway. Im done trying to add some rational thought to this conversation. The rest is up to you. I could care less. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 50Nov 30, 2022 10:40 am Noname Kippers01 @noname of course they don't. However i think it will reflect poorly on Wisdom Homes credibility and brand reputation if they strongly claim their personally identified customers are mis-representing facts here but don't explain actually how. Who would you believe? I note Mark's comments here are quite detailed and specific whilst WisdomHomes is simply a vague and 'legalese' template response. We are not talking about any questionable online avatar's comments here. Mark is confirmed as a real Wisdom Homes customer and any innapropriate comments made about him can have serious consequences. I fear you are probably right about Wisdom taking "the appropriate action" to simply shut Mark down. Not everyone can afford lawyers' fees circa $600 per hour or has the resources of the ACCC to respond appropriately and safely in these situations. It doesn't reflect poorly on them at all. This is exactly along the playbook lines on how to manage these incidents publicly without it devolving to a slinging match. I think you place too much value in what a company says rather than over how they act. And in this case their action is to make a brief statement defending their position and setting some facts straigt. Anything more than this is unnecessary. they key points here are that Mark is claiming delays - wisdom has said the home is on track to be built within the 44 week contract period. SO Id say marks coments dont really support anything other than he's freaking out unnecessarily at this point while he's still in teh contract period because somone else is progressing faster than him. This is the equivalent of picking a line at macdonalds, only to see the other lines move faster than yours and getting upset about the line you are in. His comments might hold some weight AFTER the 44 week contract period if his home is still not built. As you yourself know, there are delays in building. Some of that is baked into the contract period. Even though delays may happen, time can also be made up. I'm currently following an Instagram account where a 45 week contract build is in week 73 and counting. THAT is a delay. THAT is a travesty. THAT is causing untold amounts of stress to the clients due to the ongoing ineptitude of that particular builder. At this stage Marks situation while undoubtedly stressful, doesn't appear to be being made more stressful by the builder, but by mark's seemingly unreasonable expectations of the builder that is currently operating within the terms of their contract. What else do you want? The builder has claimed Marks comments contain inaccuracies and don't reflect the actual situation and have themselves offered that they are operating inside the terms of the contract. I can guarantee you that the builders response is thought out and can be backed up. How many times have you seen upset clients lash out and actually be in the wrong? spoiler alert - Almost always when they get to this stage (getting on forums and getting angry). People who are wrong don't get "shut down". They are presented with the reality of the situation they are creating and are given the choice to cease doing so or if they chose to continue, can defend their position legally. The "shut down" is often by the client themselves because they realise they are unable to stand by their comments with anything that resembles the proof they claim of their contractual terms not being met. Don't forget emotional outbursts are often hyperbole and that is as good as false. You dont really need a lawyer, let alone one that cost 600 bucks an hour to claim an egregious breach of contract. An email/letter outlining the breach with undeniable proof to teh builder is generally all it takes to get a positive outcome for free. Right now mark is taking pictures of the weather daily. His mind is so clouded by his seemingly unfounded rage that he doesn't even realise you can just get the data from the BOM....an arguably much more reliable independent source. Even with this data, if the house is completed in the contract period, its useless stress he's creating for himself. Anyway. Im done trying to add some rational thought to this conversation. The rest is up to you. I could care less. It's not all about the weather. It's about recording their progress as compared to the progress their reporting on our portal. e.g. They had the brick work complete last week. Brickies coming next month. They told us the lack of trusses caused delays out of their control. They'd been sitting there since 13th of October. The list goes on. Builders aren't always right & can make mistakes but you seem to just know everything. I run a very successful business that deals with all the major building suppliers from CSR, Rondo & many many more with a very loyal group of hard workers that have never left me in 17 years. I suppose that's because I'm a chronic liar with emotional outburst. I have a great legal team too. Anyway, I'm sick of listening to this crap. I couldn't care lass Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 51Nov 30, 2022 10:49 am A positive of all this discussion is that wisdomhomes have publicly retracted their earlier advice to @Mark_Ashworth that his build will be delayed by about 8 weeks. They have now confirmed 44 weeks. If this indeed happens then I would suggest leveraging social media has been an effective tactic here. I would suggest publishing a factual weekly record of your build's progress online including details of any delays. Don't get 'buried' by the distracting posts.
Note that in their HIA contract, Wisdom Homes is required to advise their customer in writing of any extensions necessary to the contract build time within 10 days of the time of delay (usually for weather but can be for other unforeseen circumstances). Wisdom Homes must explain the specific reason/s for the delay. Customers can dispute this if appropriate. It is not acceptable to just wait until PCI and simply produce a list of rainy days from the BOM or other broad unsubstantiated excuses. Following this requirement could save customers $1,000's that can be offset from their final stage payment. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 52Nov 30, 2022 10:49 am Mark Ashcroft It's not all about the weather. It's about recording their progress as compared to the progress their reporting on our portal. e.g. They had the brick work complete last week. Brickies coming next month. They told us the lack of trusses caused delays out of their control. They'd been sitting there since 13th of October. The list goes on. Builders aren't always right & can make mistakes but you seem to just know everything. I run a very successful business that deals with all the major building suppliers from CSR, Rondo & many many more with a very loyal group of hard workers that have never left me in 17 years. I suppose that's because I'm a chronic liar with emotional outburst. I have a great legal team too. Anyway, I'm sick of listening to this crap. I couldn't care lass their obligation is to deliver a house to you in 44 weeks. The rest of the frills like portals etc are not contractual obligations, but services they hope to offer in a way that differentiates them commercially from the rest - those are not obligations to you. Youre emotional. thats clear and youve admited to as much. Theres been a fair bit of hyperbole in your posts, just go back and take a read. I warned you about your chosen approach and you've been called out by your target. Ball is in your court. For somone who "runs a sucessfull business" you dont seem to know how to handle business in a busines like manner. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 53Nov 30, 2022 10:50 am also you may wish to consult your "great legal team" about your approach and responses. I suspect they might lead you in a different direction Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 54Nov 30, 2022 11:07 am Noname also you may wish to consult your "great legal team" about your approach and responses. I suspect they might lead you in a different direction We are finally getting somewhere with head office. They want to restart the relationship and come up with a workable plan. I'm being heard for once & no longer have to listen to your dibble. Good Bye Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 55Nov 30, 2022 11:08 am I think Wisdom Homes saying publicly that Mark has misrepresented the facts posted here without further public explanation is innapropriate. I suggest they consider apologising and retracting this assertion. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 56Nov 30, 2022 11:15 am Kippers01 I think Wisdom Homes saying publicly that Mark has misrepresented the facts posted here without further public explanation is innapropriate. I suggest they consider apologising and retracting this assertion. It's not innapropriate. Like I said textbook approach. They have nothing to apologise for if they are correct. Think about that for a minute. Ball is in marks court. I can already predict how this will play out. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 57Nov 30, 2022 11:16 am Mark Ashcroft Noname also you may wish to consult your "great legal team" about your approach and responses. I suspect they might lead you in a different direction We are finally getting somewhere with head office. They want to restart the relationship and come up with a workable plan. I'm being heard for once & no longer have to listen to your dibble. Good Bye Bye. Come back in 44 weeks to let us know how you got on. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Think twice before using Wisdom Homes 59Nov 30, 2022 11:25 am Mark_Ashcroft please keep us all updated weekly with the on the ground progress of your Wisdom Homes build. Don't wait until the 44 weeks is up. I suggest arranging to meet your site supervisor on site every week to inspect progress. Can someone please offer some advice? Im DESPERATE. Because I'm completely and utterly exhausted. How long are variations taking with other companies at the moment? We… 0 18970 In fairness nobody gave a crap about the ACCC and the gag clauses continued in the pro forma templates of a few other builders after the ACCC took on Wisdom, and more… 19 74009 Hi Everyone, I am exploring builder in NSW and received a very tempting quote from Wisdom home for their momentum series. I just want to know experience of building… 0 9364 |