Posting this to get opinions.
Signed contract in March 2021
Title for land issued early July 2021
Final plans signed end July 2021
Various excuses from builder, was told in mid October -waiting for insurance and then build permit.
Early December 2021= price increase variation.......
Slab thrown mid February 2022
Currently busy with brickwork.
What should the start date have been ? And what should the completion date be?
Standard HIA contract,
45days to commence,
250 days to complete.
No dates specified in contract.
Building delays
Page 1 of 2
Exactly the same for me. Signed in March 2021 and they only placed the slab in Feb 2022. Waiting for frame stage now. It says my build is supposed to be finished by August 2022.
My builder is telling me that they have 12months to complete my house from slab down
What should the start date have been ? And what should the completion date be?
Standard HIA contract,
45days to commence,
250 days to complete.
No dates specified in contract.
Standard HIA contract,
45days to commence,
250 days to complete.
No dates specified in contract.
it will be n the contract. read it again
There are no dates specified in my contract. I am in WA
does WA do this differently? I find it hard to reconcile that such basic terms as the time to completion isn't specified.
There are no dates specified in my contract. I am in WA
Does it have 'Commencement' clause in general conditions?
Our HIA contract (QLD) does, and it references Item 14 of the contract (Anticipated start date) which has a number in days from contract date, and states if there's nothing there then it's 60 days.
My WA contract just states "45days from date contract was signed" or calculated from the date that the last requirement was met. So i am thinking that the 45 days to start is from July when title for land was issued, and then 250 days to complete. ???
250 days starts from site start. Considder the site scrape/fill the start date. 250 days + any noted days for inclement weather delays + any delays considdered reasonable considering the situation with covid/supply shortages/trade shortages etc. This last one requires notification in writing.
Basically for single story 270-280+x, where x is really undeterminable untill you get the letter
But you're looking at end of october/November.
Given you're bricking, on tour way to lock up, sounds like it's on track.
All of the prestart delays were more or less unavoidable. With federal grants, supply and trade issue and covid, its been a perfect storm.
Basically for single story 270-280+x, where x is really undeterminable untill you get the letter
But you're looking at end of october/November.
Given you're bricking, on tour way to lock up, sounds like it's on track.
All of the prestart delays were more or less unavoidable. With federal grants, supply and trade issue and covid, its been a perfect storm.
My issue is with the start date. Everything regarding pre-start selections was sorted before July 2022. Contract stated that time to commence is 45 days from contract signing, this didn't happen as they had to wait for land title to be issued. So should the 45 days start date not be calculated from title issue date ?
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
as you've pointed out earlier 45 days OR from the date the last requirement was met.
The contract should stipulate what the “other requirements are met” should be.
Generally, the HIA contract specifies builders have 45 working days to commence the build once several clauses have been met. The date starts from the latest of the dates for things such as finance, building permit, power, water, titles etc.
You need to understand the order of operations and what the builder considers the “latest of the dates” is to be informed as to what the “start date” refers to. Hence why the start date is usually the site scrape/fill. There is no way to argue that the timer hasn’t started from that point. Prior to that, the argument is technical, and would require you to engage legal advice to pursue in any meaningful way.
Separately, but relevant, The HIA contract stipulates circumstances a contract can have a price increase. These include:
“Such circumstances include, but are not limited to, a delay in the commencement of home building work beyond 45 working days after the date of the contract, being a delay:
• that is caused solely by the failure of the owner to comply with a condition imposed under the contract – including the satisfactory production of evidence of the owner’s ability to pay the contract price (finance approval) or the owner’s title to the land; or
• that occurs without any failure on the part of either the owner or the builder, such as a natural disaster” (Read: covid has been lumped into this too by some builders and is arguable both ways. New contracts have covid clauses to clarify).
I would hazard a guess you have such a clause in your contract around the delay, and more specifically around titles.
Yes the builder knew your titles were out past 45 days. But so did you, and you had the contract in hand, with clauses in black and white, and you signed it. This might sound blunt, but the expectation of signing any complex legal documents is that you either explicitly understand them, or get independent advice if you don’t. Any contract specialist or lawyer would have highlighted this as a risk to you.
The intent of this clause is not to stooge you out of more money but to factor in potential cost increases due to the delays. Otherwise people would be signing fixed price contracts on land that isn’t titling for 12-18 months (yes it happens) and expecting to pay prices that are no longer feasible for builders to deliver. While the intent is reasonable, it is an open door/loophole for potential exploitation. Verifying which way it being used is not simple and able to be completely obfuscated by non-verifiable explanations from the builder that would require costly legal action to get to the bottom of.
There are many analogies that i could give you here, but I will assume the above should make sense.
Some builders invoke the clauses because they can, even if they don’t need to, others wear the costs because they have a steady pipeline of inflated contracts and margin is still being made on yours, and some are invoking it because they were too competitive on price and now cant deliver without the extra funds.
The contract should stipulate what the “other requirements are met” should be.
Generally, the HIA contract specifies builders have 45 working days to commence the build once several clauses have been met. The date starts from the latest of the dates for things such as finance, building permit, power, water, titles etc.
You need to understand the order of operations and what the builder considers the “latest of the dates” is to be informed as to what the “start date” refers to. Hence why the start date is usually the site scrape/fill. There is no way to argue that the timer hasn’t started from that point. Prior to that, the argument is technical, and would require you to engage legal advice to pursue in any meaningful way.
Separately, but relevant, The HIA contract stipulates circumstances a contract can have a price increase. These include:
“Such circumstances include, but are not limited to, a delay in the commencement of home building work beyond 45 working days after the date of the contract, being a delay:
• that is caused solely by the failure of the owner to comply with a condition imposed under the contract – including the satisfactory production of evidence of the owner’s ability to pay the contract price (finance approval) or the owner’s title to the land; or
• that occurs without any failure on the part of either the owner or the builder, such as a natural disaster” (Read: covid has been lumped into this too by some builders and is arguable both ways. New contracts have covid clauses to clarify).
I would hazard a guess you have such a clause in your contract around the delay, and more specifically around titles.
Yes the builder knew your titles were out past 45 days. But so did you, and you had the contract in hand, with clauses in black and white, and you signed it. This might sound blunt, but the expectation of signing any complex legal documents is that you either explicitly understand them, or get independent advice if you don’t. Any contract specialist or lawyer would have highlighted this as a risk to you.
The intent of this clause is not to stooge you out of more money but to factor in potential cost increases due to the delays. Otherwise people would be signing fixed price contracts on land that isn’t titling for 12-18 months (yes it happens) and expecting to pay prices that are no longer feasible for builders to deliver. While the intent is reasonable, it is an open door/loophole for potential exploitation. Verifying which way it being used is not simple and able to be completely obfuscated by non-verifiable explanations from the builder that would require costly legal action to get to the bottom of.
There are many analogies that i could give you here, but I will assume the above should make sense.
Some builders invoke the clauses because they can, even if they don’t need to, others wear the costs because they have a steady pipeline of inflated contracts and margin is still being made on yours, and some are invoking it because they were too competitive on price and now cant deliver without the extra funds.
My issue is with the start date. Everything regarding pre-start selections was sorted before July 2022. Contract stated that time to commence is 45 days from contract signing, this didn't happen as they had to wait for land title to be issued. So should the 45 days start date not be calculated from title issue date ?
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
no it shouldn't, unless you have explicitly put it in the contract as a special condition.
you not providing the evidence of title to the builder constitutes a delay outside of their control.
basically if you knew the title isn't going to be issued, you should've asked for a lot of special conditions to be added around that and/or amendment to some standard clauses, to which the builder probably wouldn't agree.
the fact that they 'knew' about it just means they wouldn't be able to invoke the 'unforeseen circumstances' clause of the contract, but they can still invoke the 'delays' one.
it'd be unreasonable to expect them to honor a price given over a year ago, especially in current market.
as you've pointed out earlier 45 days OR from the date the last requirement was met.
The contract should stipulate what the “other requirements are met” should be.
Generally, the HIA contract specifies builders have 45 working days to commence the build once several clauses have been met. The date starts from the latest of the dates for things such as finance, building permit, power, water, titles etc.
You need to understand the order of operations and what the builder considers the “latest of the dates” is to be informed as to what the “start date” refers to. Hence why the start date is usually the site scrape/fill. There is no way to argue that the timer hasn’t started from that point. Prior to that, the argument is technical, and would require you to engage legal advice to pursue in any meaningful way.
Separately, but relevant, The HIA contract stipulates circumstances a contract can have a price increase. These include:
“Such circumstances include, but are not limited to, a delay in the commencement of home building work beyond 45 working days after the date of the contract, being a delay:
• that is caused solely by the failure of the owner to comply with a condition imposed under the contract – including the satisfactory production of evidence of the owner’s ability to pay the contract price (finance approval) or the owner’s title to the land; or
• that occurs without any failure on the part of either the owner or the builder, such as a natural disaster” (Read: covid has been lumped into this too by some builders and is arguable both ways. New contracts have covid clauses to clarify).
I would hazard a guess you have such a clause in your contract around the delay, and more specifically around titles.
Yes the builder knew your titles were out past 45 days. But so did you, and you had the contract in hand, with clauses in black and white, and you signed it. This might sound blunt, but the expectation of signing any complex legal documents is that you either explicitly understand them, or get independent advice if you don’t. Any contract specialist or lawyer would have highlighted this as a risk to you.
The intent of this clause is not to stooge you out of more money but to factor in potential cost increases due to the delays. Otherwise people would be signing fixed price contracts on land that isn’t titling for 12-18 months (yes it happens) and expecting to pay prices that are no longer feasible for builders to deliver. While the intent is reasonable, it is an open door/loophole for potential exploitation. Verifying which way it being used is not simple and able to be completely obfuscated by non-verifiable explanations from the builder that would require costly legal action to get to the bottom of.
There are many analogies that i could give you here, but I will assume the above should make sense.
Some builders invoke the clauses because they can, even if they don’t need to, others wear the costs because they have a steady pipeline of inflated contracts and margin is still being made on yours, and some are invoking it because they were too competitive on price and now cant deliver without the extra funds.
The contract should stipulate what the “other requirements are met” should be.
Generally, the HIA contract specifies builders have 45 working days to commence the build once several clauses have been met. The date starts from the latest of the dates for things such as finance, building permit, power, water, titles etc.
You need to understand the order of operations and what the builder considers the “latest of the dates” is to be informed as to what the “start date” refers to. Hence why the start date is usually the site scrape/fill. There is no way to argue that the timer hasn’t started from that point. Prior to that, the argument is technical, and would require you to engage legal advice to pursue in any meaningful way.
Separately, but relevant, The HIA contract stipulates circumstances a contract can have a price increase. These include:
“Such circumstances include, but are not limited to, a delay in the commencement of home building work beyond 45 working days after the date of the contract, being a delay:
• that is caused solely by the failure of the owner to comply with a condition imposed under the contract – including the satisfactory production of evidence of the owner’s ability to pay the contract price (finance approval) or the owner’s title to the land; or
• that occurs without any failure on the part of either the owner or the builder, such as a natural disaster” (Read: covid has been lumped into this too by some builders and is arguable both ways. New contracts have covid clauses to clarify).
I would hazard a guess you have such a clause in your contract around the delay, and more specifically around titles.
Yes the builder knew your titles were out past 45 days. But so did you, and you had the contract in hand, with clauses in black and white, and you signed it. This might sound blunt, but the expectation of signing any complex legal documents is that you either explicitly understand them, or get independent advice if you don’t. Any contract specialist or lawyer would have highlighted this as a risk to you.
The intent of this clause is not to stooge you out of more money but to factor in potential cost increases due to the delays. Otherwise people would be signing fixed price contracts on land that isn’t titling for 12-18 months (yes it happens) and expecting to pay prices that are no longer feasible for builders to deliver. While the intent is reasonable, it is an open door/loophole for potential exploitation. Verifying which way it being used is not simple and able to be completely obfuscated by non-verifiable explanations from the builder that would require costly legal action to get to the bottom of.
There are many analogies that i could give you here, but I will assume the above should make sense.
Some builders invoke the clauses because they can, even if they don’t need to, others wear the costs because they have a steady pipeline of inflated contracts and margin is still being made on yours, and some are invoking it because they were too competitive on price and now cant deliver without the extra funds.
I had another look at my contract.
So the last condition that was met is "builder has received approval from all relevant authorities", this i assume would be builders permit?
So there was no "delay"
Basically a builder can sign a build contract and take as long as they like to start the build ? Then once they start, one year to finish........
How on earth do they make money taking so long to build a single story house.
And now they have COVID to blame for delays and price increases.
Yes there has been delays and price increases caused by COVID.
But what was the reasons before COVID?
Everyone that I have spoken to, talks about delays and price increases, this is going back 12+ years.
Building a new house is an extremely frustrating process.......
My issue is with the start date. Everything regarding pre-start selections was sorted before July 2022. Contract stated that time to commence is 45 days from contract signing, this didn't happen as they had to wait for land title to be issued. So should the 45 days start date not be calculated from title issue date ?
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
Builder used the "did not comence within 45days of contract signing" clause to issue a price increase variation. When the contract was drawn up, the builder new that the land title would only be issued in July......
This builder has tried to get me to sign all sorts of
variations since signing the contract in March 2021
no it shouldn't, unless you have explicitly put it in the contract as a special condition.
you not providing the evidence of title to the builder constitutes a delay outside of their control.
basically if you knew the title isn't going to be issued, you should've asked for a lot of special conditions to be added around that and/or amendment to some standard clauses, to which the builder probably wouldn't agree.
the fact that they 'knew' about it just means they wouldn't be able to invoke the 'unforeseen circumstances' clause of the contract, but they can still invoke the 'delays' one.
it'd be unreasonable to expect them to honor a price given over a year ago, especially in current market.
I consulted with a lawyer regarding the price increase, he put it to me bluntly.
I can fight it with a good chance of winning, but it will cost me more than the variation in legal fees and interest on the mortgage, it would sour the relationship with the builder and i would lose government grant.
The other option would be to cancel the contract contract, lose government grant, find another builder who will charge more than first one.
I chose the cheapest option, and paid the variation.
And to think that I almost signed up with celebration homes !!!!!
I can fight it with a good chance of winning
Curious on what basis.
Regardless of your building contract argument could be made that price rises are a result of unforeseen conditions beyond control of the builder. Under such conditions I believe a valid variation claim can be made.
Builder is not your insurer against rising costs.
In any case even if you pay more you won't lose because the value of your property will rise. If you screw builder to the wall it will cost you more. Be careful of karma.
Builder is not your insurer against rising costs.
In any case even if you pay more you won't lose because the value of your property will rise. If you screw builder to the wall it will cost you more. Be careful of karma.
Posting this to get opinions.
Signed contract in March 2021
Title for land issued early July 2021
Final plans signed end July 2021
Various excuses from builder, was told in mid October -waiting for insurance and then build permit.
Early December 2021= price increase variation.......
Slab thrown mid February 2022
Currently busy with brickwork.
What should the start date have been ? And what should the completion date be?
Standard HIA contract,
45days to commence,
250 days to complete.
No dates specified in contract.
Signed contract in March 2021
Title for land issued early July 2021
Final plans signed end July 2021
Various excuses from builder, was told in mid October -waiting for insurance and then build permit.
Early December 2021= price increase variation.......
Slab thrown mid February 2022
Currently busy with brickwork.
What should the start date have been ? And what should the completion date be?
Standard HIA contract,
45days to commence,
250 days to complete.
No dates specified in contract.
Hi cabinetmaker
Exact dates are not typically written in the construction contract, number of days/weeks are. Just the same, delay can be determined by surrounding circumstances. Best to take your matter to a specialist construction lawyer in your area, who can look over your contract and documents, and help you make an informed decision on your best course of action.
Cheers
John
On this topic - our build is, or will be very shortly, over the contracted 250 working day limit with no prospect of completion in sight. Not even at lockup. The builder has not given any notice of any delays at any point. I expect they will send something on the very last day that they are required to inform us....
but, barring that, in the standard WA HIA fixed price contract, if a builder goes over the date, and hasn't given any notice, what would a 'reasonable agreement' mean in terms on a contract extension? It seems that liquidated remedies are not usual in WA contracts and there is nothing scheduled for any sort of remedy or penalty. Anyone know what is reasonale or usual? Just seems ridiculous that we keep incurring extra living costs and the builder doesn't seem to bother having any sort of tradesperson organisation. Its so frustrating.
but, barring that, in the standard WA HIA fixed price contract, if a builder goes over the date, and hasn't given any notice, what would a 'reasonable agreement' mean in terms on a contract extension? It seems that liquidated remedies are not usual in WA contracts and there is nothing scheduled for any sort of remedy or penalty. Anyone know what is reasonale or usual? Just seems ridiculous that we keep incurring extra living costs and the builder doesn't seem to bother having any sort of tradesperson organisation. Its so frustrating.
It would be reasonable to claim for your additional accomodation and storage costs etc (or lost rental income) beyond the expected move in date based on the contract build time, less any days work that was notified to you at the time as cancelled due to weather. Maybe discuss first with your builder and you may be able to agree a weekly amount to offset the final payment without engaging tribunals and lawyers etc.
It would be reasonable to claim for your additional accomodation and storage costs etc (or lost rental income) beyond the expected move in date based on the contract build time, less any days work that was notified to you at the time as cancelled due to weather. Maybe discuss first with your builder and you may be able to agree a weekly amount to offset the final payment without engaging tribunals and lawyers etc.
It's already in your contract at a pittance.
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