Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Apr 12, 2022 11:42 pm Hi all, need help from members here. For my new double story build, architect has allowed Hebel panel as upper level cladding. Ground is all bricks. Some builders saying just use EPS foam as its lightweight, easy to install, less cost and has no known issues, while hebel is heavy, cost more and will crack etc. I also think on what hebel panel will sit because it's heavy, as foam can just be screwed to studs. Please help and provide some feedback. Not sure what to do. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 2Apr 13, 2022 5:07 am EPS is combustible meaning that in the event of a fire, it will contribute significantly to the spread of fire. Yes it costs less than Hebel, but in about 5 years time, most likely you will need to re-render as all the nail heads will be visible then. EPS has also been banned from commercial buildings and residential buildings with 3 storeys or above. Depending on your state, your home insurance will also likely to be significantly higher if you have EPS cladding. Lastly, if there is a hail storm, there is good chance your EPS cladding will be damaged. Hebel on the other hand is not combustible, more expensive to install and may require more engineering due to the weight. It is normally fixed into tophats that are screwed to the external walls. If not installed properly, it is prone to cracks. You will also need to render it after install which adds to the overall cost. Another cladding product that is also popular is James Hardie Scyon Axon. It is made of fibre cement, non combustible, cost effective and fairly durable. You can paint them using standard external paint. It is fixed through tophats / directly to external walls. The only downside is probably the insulation factor. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 3Apr 13, 2022 8:43 am Hey newdev Welcome to the forum What would you expect an architect to say, they have been caught out with EPS EPS looks great on their fake Coloured renderings, Unfortunately, they had no idea ( or didn't care) what problems they were creating in the commercial apartment sector. Interestingly, last month the regulators asked engineers (EA) to solve that problem. The simple solution is don't use it. ATM, Builders are just trying to turn a quick buck, most don't care about non-compliance, insurance companies will put a stop to it quick smart, when home owners have problems obtaining cover. Have you own building Bim quants, data/ costs and weight up your best material option Not sure what to do? Start by paying for top quality Drawings, data and advice, there are PROS on this forum Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 4Apr 13, 2022 9:16 am https://www.vic.gov.au/banning-dangerou ... rians-safe some info for you there. it is unfortunate that they didn't expand the ban to residential housing. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 6Apr 18, 2022 6:29 pm EPS is a performance based solution, therefore it is up to the certifier to accept and sign-off. Whereas Hebel is a Deem-to-Satisfy system. Victoria was having a lot of trouble with EPS as water was getting into the eps and creating some major issues with mould, you also have a an issue where you need to be fire rated due to proximity to the boundary We are Expert Consultant's, and we are here to help. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 7Apr 19, 2022 10:44 am buildingandLegal Can you explain that in laymans terms? What does a performance based solution mean compared to "deem to satisfy"? Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 8Apr 19, 2022 11:19 am With "deem to satisfy" basically follow the cookbook (NCC requirements) approach and it can be certified by a building surveyor OT the cookbook is over 1000 pages and counting, unfortunately, even structural items within the cookbook may still require and engineer certification Change the recipe and it becomes a developed performance solution steps are
Usually a page or two carried out by trusted experts or engineers and certified by a building surveyor as "Fit For purpose" try google here performance based solution vs deemed to satisfy imo, the simplest way is to get an engineer to sign off and you are covered for both, the same bim model and data can the be used for quants and costing. LOL, never had a builder come back and say your model is non-compliant the build cost have increase. Though Architects models get butchered hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 9Apr 19, 2022 11:22 am Think of the Building Code of Australia (BCA) & the Australian Standards like a recipe book, Both provide a method to achieve an outcome, eg do this, then this and finally this and you comply with the codes, you follow it's recipe. This is referred to as a DTS (Deemed-to-Satisfy..the code's requirements). eg for tie-down of a timber frame in a N3 wind zone (exposed to wind) the codes DTS = rods on either side of an opening, concrete nails @ 1200mm and an anka bolt, dyna bolt etc are to be m12 to each end of a bracing sheet (a recipe) A Performance Based Solution is where you through the recipe away, You still need to meet the Performance Requirements of the BCA eg the house will stand up, won't fall apart, will resist wind. For whatever reason you can't follow a DTS you can make up your own version. So where you make you're own recipe, like swapping the 2 x m12 bolts for 4 x m10 @ 200mm centres, you need to produce a report showing how your 4 x m10 @ 200centres meets or exceeds the Requirements of the Codes, This is referred to as a Performance Based Solution PBS (Alternate Solution). A PBS is assessed by a Certifier and accepted or rejected. The risk the certifier runs is any failure of a PBS is 100% claimable against the certifiers insurance, and a lot of policies exclude PBS. As a rule of thumb a PBS will range in price due to complexity from $2k to $6k to develop. Hope this helps to explain We are Expert Consultant's, and we are here to help. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 11Apr 19, 2022 12:13 pm If its a simple ie, classA, flat block, N1 wind loading, which is a std build the builder should include everything that's required (NCC). Though some builders still come back and ask for and charge more for extra requirements? Normally, there should be no surprises once you pay for a Preparation of Plans agreement (PPA) in finalising contract documents which includes, Contour , soil report, engineering, variation upgrades are extras, etc. be warned don't pay too much for PPAs, if there is a dispute (NCC) on compliance inclusions then there is no simple resolution.... off to court. Is the writing on the wall for yet another Perth builder? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 12Apr 19, 2022 1:28 pm When building some 7years ago,used XPS and render still looks perfect with no marks breaking the surface. Used for one room above garage, storeroom and still performing as promised. Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 13Apr 25, 2022 6:46 pm thanks everyone for the feedback and sorry for my late reply. I will consider using hebel for upper level cladding. Will also consider other options like James hardie as suggested but insulation properties may not be as close to hebel. thanks Re: EPS Foam vs Hebel cladding on upper level 14Apr 25, 2022 7:04 pm Good for you, weigh up the pros and cons with data and proofs Make sure you have the certified details and 1st stage Quants and costs That way you can make informed decisions, thus avoiding the builder coming back at you with "that is non compliant and there will be additional costs..." (ouch) there's no coming back from that once you have signed up Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Oh no! I would use a can of expandable foam ( there are some that will take render) then cut it back and render over the top 1 4141 There is nothing in the various codes and standards that puts this requirement on the builder to do. I think that is what you are asking. Don't waste time trying to get… 5 2391 I was looking at different options for a fence for my build and Hebel PowerFence seemed like a good option (one of the criteria was a solid wall look). However, I don't… 0 5896 |