Dual Occ FSR Calculation in Sutherland Shire

Carmooch · Mar 06, 2022 2:53 pm

We are currently going down the route of developing our block into a duplex in the Sutherland Shire, and I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find clear guidelines around floor space ratio and how this is calculated. I know that part of the garage floor space is excluded from the FSR ratio, but can't find where this is documented in the LEP for example.

The biggest concern I have right now is that I'm getting conflicting reports on whether the stairwell void counts toward the FSR on one or both levels. Our architect is telling us that both levels count towards the FSR which means the 5m2 footprint of the stairwell accounts for 10m2 of the allowable FSR.

Is this correct?

MrsJM · Mar 06, 2022 3:01 pm

Carmooch

We are currently going down the route of developing our block into a duplex in the Sutherland Shire, and I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find clear guidelines around floor space ratio and how this is calculated. I know that part of the garage floor space is excluded from the FSR ratio, but can't find where this is documented in the LEP for example.

The biggest concern I have right now is that I'm getting conflicting reports on whether the stairwell void counts toward the FSR on one or both levels. Our architect is telling us that both levels count towards the FSR which means the 5m2 footprint of the stairwell accounts for 10m2 of the allowable FSR.

Is this correct?

Also built in the Sutherland shire. A void wasn’t included in the floor space ratio. ie we have a void above our dining room and the dining room on the lower floor counts towards floor space but the void above doesn’t

Carmooch · Mar 06, 2022 4:27 pm

MrsJM

Also built in the Sutherland shire. A void wasn’t included in the floor space ratio. ie we have a void above our dining room and the dining room on the lower floor counts towards floor space but the void above doesn’t

Thanks. Any insights regarding the stairwell space specifically?

MrsJM · Mar 06, 2022 6:07 pm

Carmooch

MrsJM

Also built in the Sutherland shire. A void wasn’t included in the floor space ratio. ie we have a void above our dining room and the dining room on the lower floor counts towards floor space but the void above doesn’t

Thanks. Any insights regarding the stairwell space specifically?

Ours wasn’t included. If you look at your building plans and the size of the house, does the floor space take into consideration that void? It shouldn’t. That’s what council go off

MrsJM · Mar 06, 2022 6:11 pm

https://www.millsoakley.com.au/thinking ... imize-gfa/

Ashington Homes · Mar 07, 2022 4:13 am

Carmooch

We are currently going down the route of developing our block into a duplex in the Sutherland Shire, and I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find clear guidelines around floor space ratio and how this is calculated. I know that part of the garage floor space is excluded from the FSR ratio, but can't find where this is documented in the LEP for example.

The biggest concern I have right now is that I'm getting conflicting reports on whether the stairwell void counts toward the FSR on one or both levels. Our architect is telling us that both levels count towards the FSR which means the 5m2 footprint of the stairwell accounts for 10m2 of the allowable FSR.

Is this correct?

Hi Carmooch

I had a look at the Sutherland LEP and the FSR definition requires you to look at the definition for gross floor area. Here is what I have found:

gross floor area means the sum of the floor area of each floor of a building measured from the internal face of external walls, or from the internal face of walls separating the building from any other building, measured at a height of 1.4 metres above the floor, and includes—

Quote:

(a) the area of a mezzanine, and

Quote:

(b) habitable rooms in a basement or an attic, and

Quote:

(c) any shop, auditorium, cinema, and the like, in a basement or attic,

but excludes—

Quote:

(d) any area for common vertical circulation, such as lifts and stairs, and

Quote:

(e) any basement—

Quote:

(i) storage, and

Quote:

(ii) vehicular access, loading areas, garbage and services, and

Quote:

(f) plant rooms, lift towers and other areas used exclusively for mechanical services or ducting, and

Quote:

(g) car parking to meet any requirements of the consent authority (including access to that car parking), and

Quote:

(h) any space used for the loading or unloading of goods (including access to it), and

Quote:

(i) terraces and balconies with outer walls less than 1.4 metres high, and

Quote:

(j) voids above a floor at the level of a storey or storey above.

It seems to be a fairly standard definition in that you can exclude the void on the upper floor only, storage, alfresco, porch and one car space.

I have attached the FSR calc for my duplex ( blue is area included and grey is excluded) Area included in FSR calculationBlue included, grey area excludedLike ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅

I hope that helps

Cheers

Simeon

Carmooch · Mar 07, 2022 9:42 am

Thanks Simeon.

Not long off the phone to Sutherland Council and they have confirmed that it is their policy to count stairwell voids on both levels.

How does this work from a legislative perspective? Can they simply overrule the LEP like that?

Ashington Homes · Mar 07, 2022 11:30 am

Carmooch

Thanks Simeon.

Not long off the phone to Sutherland Council and they have confirmed that it is their policy to count stairwell voids on both levels.

How does this work from a legislative perspective? Can they simply overrule the LEP like that?

Carmooch

Firstly I am not a planner, but I have worked on quite a few major developments over my career and spent a fair bit of time around planners and planning lawyers ( and also studied planning at university).

My understanding has always been that an LEP is locked in stone ( although there is a mechanism in planning law to apply for a variation), where as the DCP can be varied with a good planning argument and design justification.

To me the LEP is clear that the GFA definition excludes the first floor void, so I am not sure why the architect and council now say you have to include it. I was reading the version of the LEP on their website, so perhaps they have an updated version?

If it is important and you are willing to pay for some planning advice I would be more than happy to send you the contact details for 2 planners we use.

Let me know

Cheers

Simeon

O

greg brown · Nov 03, 2023 9:35 pm

Ashington Homes

Carmooch

We are currently going down the route of developing our block into a duplex in the Sutherland Shire, and I'm finding it incredibly difficult to find clear guidelines around floor space ratio and how this is calculated. I know that part of the garage floor space is excluded from the FSR ratio, but can't find where this is documented in the LEP for example.

The biggest concern I have right now is that I'm getting conflicting reports on whether the stairwell void counts toward the FSR on one or both levels. Our architect is telling us that both levels count towards the FSR which means the 5m2 footprint of the stairwell accounts for 10m2 of the allowable FSR.

Is this correct?

Hi Carmooch

I had a look at the Sutherland LEP and the FSR definition requires you to look at the definition for gross floor area. Here is what I have found:

gross floor area means the sum of the floor area of each floor of a building measured from the internal face of external walls, or from the internal face of walls separating the building from any other building, measured at a height of 1.4 metres above the floor, and includes—

Quote:

(a) the area of a mezzanine, and

Quote:

(b) habitable rooms in a basement or an attic, and

Quote:

(c) any shop, auditorium, cinema, and the like, in a basement or attic,

but excludes—

Quote:

(d) any area for common vertical circulation, such as lifts and stairs, and

Quote:

(e) any basement—

Quote:

(i) storage, and

Quote:

(ii) vehicular access, loading areas, garbage and services, and

Quote:

(f) plant rooms, lift towers and other areas used exclusively for mechanical services or ducting, and

Quote:

(g) car parking to meet any requirements of the consent authority (including access to that car parking), and

Quote:

(h) any space used for the loading or unloading of goods (including access to it), and

Quote:

(i) terraces and balconies with outer walls less than 1.4 metres high, and

Quote:

(j) voids above a floor at the level of a storey or storey above.

It seems to be a fairly standard definition in that you can exclude the void on the upper floor only, storage, alfresco, porch and one car space.

I have attached the FSR calc for my duplex ( blue is area included and grey is excluded) Area included in FSR calculationBlue included, grey area excludedLike ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅

I hope that helps

Cheers

Simeon

i am also doing something in the Sutherland Shire.
i noticed on your FSR calculations you used 25% of the site area + 300m
is this allowed in all councils?
that number is what I need, do you know if there is a special process to get it ?.

cheers and thanks
Greg
.

Pulse · Nov 04, 2023 8:10 pm

I found this post really useful in GFA calcs

https://www.millsoakley.com.au/thinking ... imize-gfa/