Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jan 28, 2022 3:57 pm Hello, I have a house construction about to start the frame stage where the engineering members include both steel (posts and beams) and timber frames. Should I start steels first or timber frames first? My steel guy just wants to do both posts and beams in one trip while my carpenter's timeline is not yet ready. That means the steel guy would need a lot of bracings around his beams to keep them steady. Later on, the carpenters will have to remove them. Does that sound like a bit of trouble or does that sound normal? This is my first project as an owner-builder. I don't have much experience. Appreciated this forum a lot, trust some of you may give me your experience and/or insights. Thanks LT Re: Frame stage - Steel work first or Timber frames first? 2Jan 28, 2022 7:26 pm Normally the steel would be brought to site and installed by the builder, posts, then walls and then beams with a crane if needed. If it extensive the steel might be erected by a crew and the carpenter can alter the frames to suit later and remove bracing Re: Frame stage - Steel work first or Timber frames first? 3Jan 31, 2022 2:20 pm tranlan257 Hello, I have a house construction about to start the frame stage where the engineering members include both steel (posts and beams) and timber frames. Should I start steels first or timber frames first? My steel guy just wants to do both posts and beams in one trip while my carpenter's timeline is not yet ready. That means the steel guy would need a lot of bracings around his beams to keep them steady. Later on, the carpenters will have to remove them. Does that sound like a bit of trouble or does that sound normal? This is my first project as an owner-builder. I don't have much experience. Appreciated this forum a lot, trust some of you may give me your experience and/or insights. Thanks LT Tranlan257 You should always install the steel first. I am editing this post as it's probably a good time to explain why you should always do steel first for the best quality and avoid pre-manufactured frames. So project home builders who mainly use pre-manufactured frames tend to erect the frames before the steel. Custom builders who cut their own frames on site will generally do the steel first. Pre-manufactured frames and made based off the construction drawings and assume that each step of the build has gone perfectly ahead of their installation. We all know that concreting isn't a perfect science and sometimes rebates are wrong, or the slab might have some high point and low points. The other issue is that I have often found that pre-manufactured frames arent perfect, they can be bowed or warped or simply be cut incorrectly. So if you have an imperfect frame installed on an imperfect slab, and then you are trying to fit a structural steel post or beam, they often don't fit. So you end up seeing lots and lots of plastic packers holding up steel posts so that they bridge the gaps. Ideally you want to get your steel in first, and then have a skilled carpenter customise cutting the frames to the conditions that they find with the steel and slab so you end up with a snug fit. I have attached some images of a friends home who was building with a very well know project home builder which demonstrates the issues of installing the steel first. I hope this helps Simeon Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Frame stage - Steel work first or Timber frames first? 4Feb 01, 2022 4:10 pm Ashington Homes tranlan257 Hello, I have a house construction about to start the frame stage where the engineering members include both steel (posts and beams) and timber frames. Should I start steels first or timber frames first? My steel guy just wants to do both posts and beams in one trip while my carpenter's timeline is not yet ready. That means the steel guy would need a lot of bracings around his beams to keep them steady. Later on, the carpenters will have to remove them. Does that sound like a bit of trouble or does that sound normal? This is my first project as an owner-builder. I don't have much experience. Appreciated this forum a lot, trust some of you may give me your experience and/or insights. Thanks LT Tranlan257 You should always install the steel first. I am editing this post as it's probably a good time to explain why you should always do steel first for the best quality and avoid pre-manufactured frames. So project home builders who mainly use pre-manufactured frames tend to erect the frames before the steel. Custom builders who cut their own frames on site will generally do the steel first. Pre-manufactured frames and made based off the construction drawings and assume that each step of the build has gone perfectly ahead of their installation. We all know that concreting isn't a perfect science and sometimes rebates are wrong, or the slab might have some high point and low points. The other issue is that I have often found that pre-manufactured frames arent perfect, they can be bowed or warped or simply be cut incorrectly. So if you have an imperfect frame installed on an imperfect slab, and then you are trying to fit a structural steel post or beam, they often don't fit. So you end up seeing lots and lots of plastic packers holding up steel posts so that they bridge the gaps. Ideally you want to get your steel in first, and then have a skilled carpenter customise cutting the frames to the conditions that they find with the steel and slab so you end up with a snug fit. I have attached some images of a friends home who was building with a very well know project home builder which demonstrates the issues of installing the steel first. I hope this helps Simeon Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hi Simeon, Thanks so much for your technical explanation with pictures and great details of various issues. It's good to know, my pleasure, appreciated it a lot. I have a 'stick build' for timber frames which is to build the timber frames on site, not a prefab. You're right about the potential issue with slab. I have just picked up one issue via slab marking-out task before framing. The concreter missed the step-down for brick flashing on two walls adjoining the alfresco, resulting in an extension of both walls with brickwork to be built from the alfresco instead. The issue caused changes in the rooms' dimensions (larger), the alfresco (smaller), and the balcony (smaller) on the first floor above the alfresco. We decided to build on slab rather than to cut the concrete. For steelwork (posts and beams installation), do you think I should ask for an additional building inspection for steel when it's done (before timber frames)? Leaving everything to the completion of the frame stage to inspect at once seems a bit of a risk? There are no split inspections between major tasks of the frame stage but I'm happy to pay for extra inspections to ensure that things are going ok, no surprise in the end. Any potential issue with steel installation can be spotted? Thanks again for your insight. Much appreciated X Cheers LT Re: Frame stage - Steel work first or Timber frames first? 5Feb 01, 2022 4:13 pm tranlan257 Ashington Homes tranlan257 Hello, I have a house construction about to start the frame stage where the engineering members include both steel (posts and beams) and timber frames. Should I start steels first or timber frames first? My steel guy just wants to do both posts and beams in one trip while my carpenter's timeline is not yet ready. That means the steel guy would need a lot of bracings around his beams to keep them steady. Later on, the carpenters will have to remove them. Does that sound like a bit of trouble or does that sound normal? This is my first project as an owner-builder. I don't have much experience. Appreciated this forum a lot, trust some of you may give me your experience and/or insights. Thanks LT Tranlan257 You should always install the steel first. I am editing this post as it's probably a good time to explain why you should always do steel first for the best quality and avoid pre-manufactured frames. So project home builders who mainly use pre-manufactured frames tend to erect the frames before the steel. Custom builders who cut their own frames on site will generally do the steel first. Pre-manufactured frames and made based off the construction drawings and assume that each step of the build has gone perfectly ahead of their installation. We all know that concreting isn't a perfect science and sometimes rebates are wrong, or the slab might have some high point and low points. The other issue is that I have often found that pre-manufactured frames arent perfect, they can be bowed or warped or simply be cut incorrectly. So if you have an imperfect frame installed on an imperfect slab, and then you are trying to fit a structural steel post or beam, they often don't fit. So you end up seeing lots and lots of plastic packers holding up steel posts so that they bridge the gaps. Ideally you want to get your steel in first, and then have a skilled carpenter customise cutting the frames to the conditions that they find with the steel and slab so you end up with a snug fit. I have attached some images of a friends home who was building with a very well know project home builder which demonstrates the issues of installing the steel first. I hope this helps Simeon Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Hi Simeon, Thanks so much for your technical explanation with pictures and great details of various issues. It's good to know, my pleasure, appreciated it a lot. I have a 'stick build' for timber frames which is to build the timber frames on site, not a prefab. You're right about the potential issue with slab. I have just picked up one issue via slab marking-out task before framing. The concreter missed the step-down for brick flashing on two walls adjoining the alfresco, resulting in an extension of both walls with brickwork to be built from the alfresco instead. The issue caused changes in the rooms' dimensions (larger), the alfresco (smaller), and the balcony (smaller) on the first floor above the alfresco. We decided to build on slab rather than to cut the concrete. For steelwork (posts and beams installation), do you think I should ask for an additional building inspection for steel when it's done (before timber frames)? Leaving everything to the completion of the frame stage to inspect at once seems a bit of a risk? There are no split inspections between major tasks of the frame stage but I'm happy to pay for extra inspections to ensure that things are going ok, no surprise in the end. Any potential issue with steel installation can be spotted? Thanks again for your insight. Much appreciated X Cheers LT Hi LT By inspection I am assuming you mean by the certifier? if so, from experience certifiers rarely pick up on steep issues unless there is something blatantly wrong. You would be better off getting your engineer to come and check if you need some reassurance cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Frame stage - Steel work first or Timber frames first? 6Feb 02, 2022 10:26 am Hi Simeon, I refer to the list of inspections required in the building permit. They are limited to some only, including footings/pre-slab, steel for slab (before concrete), frame, and final inspections for my permit. When there are significant works progressing towards the inspection of the frame stage, it'd be good if each task (done by a sub-contractor) could ensure its own perfection. Then there is no big surprise in the end But you're right, you may be better off getting my engineer to come and check it. Thanks for your opinion. Much appreciated X Cheers LT This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 4806 Hi I am wanting some opinions about the build of a steel shed I am going to get one about 4.5 x 2.5 m steel shed and the height will be about 2.3-2.4m high The one I am… 0 14389 That sucks! Hope it all works out. Good to move away from steel anyway for all your reasons, but it's also thermally poor. 16 17724 |