Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 13, 2021 8:54 am I am in the process of building one of “Shed and Homes “ in Lonsdale Adelaide , engineered kit homes. It is built with truecore steel frames and black colourbond sheets. They are building it just to lock up stage and they had put it to council It is almost complete and looks great but there is a big problem. They charged me $8000 for the rhino P-51 MR sarking which would’ve only cost them a few hundred dollars and I can live with, but it was not installed correctly according to the spec sheet. Instead of putting in a minimum 20 mm gap with spacers to create a thermal break, they sandwiched the sarking in between the colourbond sheet and frame . This has been a huge oversight by them due to their inexperience as they only mainly build sheds. It will now create a thermal bridge and allow the heat to transfer straight into the internal steel frames. I have been told by an insulation expert that they missed a real opportunity to keep the heat out of the house, Where they could’ve used a product like thermal break 7 instead of the sarking The Rhino sarking they used has a R1.1 rating But only if it’s installed with a minimum 20 mm spacing, but now it would have no rating at all , as told to me by the Rhino tech person. Now my problem is to keep the heat out from my Gyprock. The builder now has reluctantly agreed to add some kind of thermal break because he was pressured by the council, by adding 20 mm thick timber batons inbetween, so the GypRock can screw into it, but I have been told by the insulation expert that it will not do that much to keep the heat out and my house will be very hot and uncomfortable. To make things worse he has not even indicated that the aluminium windows and doors will have a thermal break and will cause more heat to radiate into the house, Even worse he did not even order the correct glazing windows which I have told him to rectify. His solution to me when I told him it will be hot was to add curtains, sounds like a joke. My question is if I go above and beyond at a greater cost to me with the internal insulation will it be ok , or should I just bite the bullet , before the windows and doors get installed, and pay for someone to remove all the colourbond sheets and sarking and put in the correct thermal break 7 product or something more suitable, or even just put the spacers in. This would not be a cheap exercise but at least my house will be livable. What experience have people had here with thermal bridging and thermal breaks with steel framed shed type homes. Thanks for any advice Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 3Nov 13, 2021 9:32 am Hey Nik007 Welcome to the Engineering Data/proofs universe (humour) Go back to whoever did your design and ask for Comsol engineering FEM thermal performance of insulated panel and window glazing which can be used to certify your design/build Avoid architectural thermal performance of insulated panel and window glazing which has no Data/proofs= no certification Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 4Nov 13, 2021 9:49 am Thanks for the reply but it’s not actually my design, it’s a premade kit home supplied by steelex to their franchisee shed and homes , just the framing and tin, then they got an independent energy assessor to get the six star energy rating for council approval.it doesn’t even mention a thermal break in there. I’m not sure who I would ask for that. Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 5Nov 13, 2021 10:15 am Nik007 just the framing and tin, then they got an independent energy assessor to get the six star energy rating for council approval.it doesn’t even mention a thermal break in there. I’m not sure who I would ask for that. Sorry, literally a campfire oven, I doubt there is a 6 star energy rating? Go back to the energy certifier and software company they used and give them heaps. They will need to model the impact of heat transfer/m2 + connections over the entire building Contact the uni engineering dept ..they might put you on to someone local? hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 6Nov 13, 2021 3:23 pm You are entitled to have your house built in conformance with approved building permit drawings or else builder is in breach of the contract. If your builder completes your home and obtains occupancy certificate that means it is legally fit for occupation however if your plans called for 6 star energy rating than that is what you get. You need to be careful about opinion you get from others, yes there is always better way to do something but the builder only needs to comply with the contract. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 7Nov 14, 2021 8:52 am The builder is building the house to lock up stage only so the certificate of occupancy will not be done by him, I am hiring a building supervisor after the lock up to get that. My builder engaged an assessor for a six star energy rating which has been stamped, but it does not specify on there about thermal break, so I doubt at the end it will comply with the 6 star., but it may be hard to prove at the end of the build . The builder is already in breach of contract as it is now six months over the completion time specified and they are still not finished. I could engage a lawyer and fight it but sometimes the money wasted on that and time, it might be better just for me to pay to solve the problem? The big problem is that they just did not install the sarking to the spec sheet, i.e. there is no gap between iron sheets and the metal frame , so would that mean they have been negligent? Would that be easy to prove to a judge? Is it worth the fight , energy, stress and time wasted?? It is the first house I have ever built, I’m not a rich man, I would’ve hoped that the builder knew what he was doing with thermal dynamics but he doesn’t obviously They just want to build it to lock up as agreed in contract ,, get their money and walk away and leave the problems with me. Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 8Nov 14, 2021 9:37 am You weren't prepared:- 1.with the correct documentation 2.with clauses in the contract to cover you in case of "What if..." 3. And underestimated the process and you have limited funds to complete 4.The builders are way too smart for the regulators, free access to lawyers thru their associations with the MBA 5.Battlers can't afford justice in the courts 6. Yep as you have realised "They just want to build it to lock up as agreed in contract ,, get their money and walk away and leave the problems with me." Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 9Nov 14, 2021 7:41 pm Your sarking is only the first line of defence against heat transfer, are there no batts specified in the walls? Has your insulation expert given you a written report? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 10Nov 14, 2021 8:28 pm Yes there is an energy report with the recommended R rating to do that but I have been told that because there is no thermal break between the colourbond tin and the steel frame all the heat will transfer into the frames and the insulation will do minimal especially through the walls Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 11Nov 14, 2021 8:31 pm Nik007 Yes there is an energy report with the recommended R rating to do that but I have been told that because there is no thermal break between the colourbond tin and the steel frame all the heat will transfer into the frames and the insulation will do minimal especially through the walls Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 13Nov 14, 2021 10:39 pm Nik007 Also I noticed that the energy report indicates weatherboard sheets instead of colourbond im assuming so it could pass Here Thermal Conductivity of different building materials You will need to re-run the simulations. But I would have to say its too late Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 14Nov 15, 2021 7:57 am The best you can do is to get a second opinion via independent energy rating report. If your independent report states that as built six star rating cannot be achieved then you will have a case against the builder however be careful as the legal costs can get out of hand. I have seen $2500 concreting dispute cost both parties $30K in legals before they shook hands on $2500. (emotion, ego and pride involved). Your independent rater could then run what if to find out how six star can be achieved alternatively. You did not answer if your insulation expert gave you a written report or was he merely mouthing off? Don't forget you are not building a home but a barn shed then turning it into a home, did you expect no problems? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 15Nov 15, 2021 8:29 am Thanks , That is a good idea to get another 6 star energy report, the expert did not give me a report but I can get it from him I didn’t expect to have problems as it was meant to be a fully engineered house, and if he had used the correct thermalbreak 7 material between the sheets and frames , and Installed correctly I wouldn’t of had these problems, I just expected the builder knew how to built the kits he sells the right way . I’m a traffic controller and I have had to be the one to educate him, it’s a worry he is a disaster. it seems my only solution is to just pay for him to remove all the sheets and put this product in as I have been told it is very Good He refuses to pay for it and yes court is expensive Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 16Nov 15, 2021 9:36 am Contact your Building Commission in your state (LOL, except NSW where you don't have one) and lodge a complaint I don't see why you should have to pay for a mistake your energy certifier has made, besides the builder should have check it, he has a duty of care? Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Thermal bridging on a “Shed and Homes” kit house 18Nov 15, 2021 7:54 pm They have suggested to put 20 mil thick timber batons on the internal frame so the Gyprock screws into it to create the thermal break, but now I am combating the heat at the Gyprock end rather than before the frames at the colourbond end so internal frames will be hot I’m not sure if that will make my house too hot even with good insulation fitted Is it possible to render an old corrugated iron shed.I have heard that it can be done if it is covered with chicken wire first.Not sure of the ratio of the render mix and… 0 4889 Thanks. Yeh ideally that would have been good, but have progressed too far now. Hoping some well placed internal walls fixed up into the battens will provide some… 2 5369 Hi, I am sheeting the inside of a 5.7 x 8m shed with gyprock. 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