Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 03, 2021 9:01 pm We've finally purchased our plot of land and so the next start of our journey has started - Finding a builder, and figuring out what we actually want to build. And there is a lot to figure out... I've been reading about Passive House designs/certifications. Does anyone have experience with these? My questions are 1. Is this feasible for a build in Australia without going into the multiple millions of dollars? What sort of budget should I be expecting? A lot of information on the internet talks about a 10/15% increase in cost, which seems very optimistic. 2. Any drawbacks that we're not aware of? 3. Does anyone have direct experience building or living in a Passive House certified home? 4. Is it actually worth certifying, compared to just making a highly insulated home? Thanks Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 2Nov 04, 2021 9:56 am Why don't you come up with a design and analyse the options for materials, costs, etc The last time I looked at Passivhaus certification it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Australia is in a moderate zone unlike northern Europe OT, Worse will be a carbon tax on building materials, ie concrete, bricks , steel, etc Save your pennies Sydney and Melbourne's housing costs keep going up BTW, The internet doesn't certify code compliance aussie Engineers do, and there's no appetite to keep pushing costs up for the battlers and punters Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 3Nov 04, 2021 10:21 am StructuralBIMGuy You seem to be annoyed about this. I'm just trying to gather information, its difficult to understand what's worthwhile and what is not. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 4Nov 04, 2021 10:29 am Annoyed about sky rocketing building Costs and price gouging .... 100% If you have the money hire a passivhouse certified Architect...for what's it worth then do a cost benefit analysis Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 5Nov 04, 2021 10:34 am > If you have the money hire a passivhouse certified Architect...for what's it worth then do a cost benefit analysis I'd rather ask around for other's experiences first, rather than go ahead and just spend money. I honestly don't understand why you're so angry about this post. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 6Nov 04, 2021 11:38 am ren_ho > If you have the money hire a passivhouse certified Architect...for what's it worth then do a cost benefit analysis I'd rather ask around for other's experiences first, rather than go ahead and just spend money. I honestly don't understand why you're so angry about this post. just search his other posts, 99% of them are the same dribble or a variation of. Its unlikely this is the right place to find feedback on the experiences you're looking for. A vast majority of people building in Australia aren't building these types of houses. Volume builders build the the bulk of the stock these days. If you cant find it via the search functions, its likely not there. But it also doesn't cost you anything to speak with an architect who specialises in this stuff to ask about their prior projects and costs for a view of the outcomes. They may even be able to put you in touch with the owners of those projects for a chat. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 7Nov 04, 2021 12:30 pm Join the MEEH (My Efficient Electric Home) Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MyEfficientElectricHome They specialise in these types of discussions and reducing your home's carbon footprint. Some of the members include architects, trades, energy raters, etc. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 8Nov 04, 2021 1:23 pm Noname Thanks - Yeah, I didn't find a lot of information on the forum. I'm actually not too interested in certification, more on the benefits. We've been calling some architects, but I was hoping to get experience from a more unbiased source - like those who have built, or investigated but discarded it an option. keyman Good suggestion! I've joined now Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 9Nov 04, 2021 1:39 pm StructuralBIMGuy keyman Join the MEEH (My Efficient Electric Home) Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/MyEfficientElectricHome They specialise in these types of discussions and reducing your home's carbon footprint. Some of the members include architects, trades, energy raters, etc. LOL, I noticed someone posted a hack about bubble wrap on the windows? How's that's going to get certified? Meta has already announced there's a change in direction.. hacks and thumbs up don't cut it any more HTH Its not for certification Bimboy, its a comment made while discussing how to make your home more energy efficient. Is this another one of those senior moments your comprehension goes out the window? Aesthetics aside, you could wrap your house in blankets and you'd make it more energy efficient. You still think FB is entering the housing market? lol. I'd see someone about what appears to be your deteriorating state. For anyone in the thread who interested, here's the post where BIMboy makes some really weird connections. I genuinely starting to think this account is a bot.. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 10Nov 04, 2021 1:53 pm Noname Aesthetics aside, you could wrap your house in blankets and you'd make it more energy efficient. If you are licensed to certify the Data then people might believe you? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 11Nov 04, 2021 2:02 pm StructuralBIMGuy Noname Aesthetics aside, you could wrap your house in blankets and you'd make it more energy efficient. If you are licensed to certify the Data then people might believe you? another hit to the comprehension metric. Keep going BIMboy. Its just starting to look like you've had a stroke. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 12Nov 04, 2021 2:06 pm forgot to post the thread - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=103796 you can practically feel the eyerolls of the 3.5k people who clicked on that thread. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 13Nov 04, 2021 8:24 pm Despite having butted heads with Chris a number of times on this forum, I agree with him here. For our upcoming build we looked at going down this path and weighing up all the cost benefit ratios and found that it was just not worth it. In a cold climate like Chris says ie alpine or Tassie, it would be worthwhile forking out for all the extra thermal insulation necessary to achieve Passivhaus certification ( plus the other aspects ) but for us living 1.1k from the coast in Sydney the cost was a lot more than I thought practical. Stewie Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 14Nov 04, 2021 8:56 pm stewie D Did you end up going with any aspects that similar or related to that certification? We're also leaning towards not going for passive house certification as it seems like overkill. But we do like a few of the ideas, like having filtered, heat trapping ventilation and high air tightness. Still not sure how much it would cost us though. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 15Nov 04, 2021 9:02 pm We were just going to go with the compulsory BASIX but because we were over the skylight or sky window limit we had to get an independent Thermal assessor to do a report. Double glazing to most windows, R 4.1 to the ceilings, R 2.5 to the walls for insulation, window orientation etc. Stewie Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 16Nov 04, 2021 10:18 pm FWIW in Adelaide you'd be looking at $500k+ for a certified passivhaus and that's for a very modest sized home. You will also need to engage an architect who specialises in this design. If you have the money and want to try it out, go for it. However just focusing on solar passive principles will get you a long way for less. Going for better windows, insulation and air tightness will reach a point where the increase in benefits starts to become minimal in terms of thermal efficiency. PH crosses that line of not being worth it in my view. However, some people are not that constrained by money so by all means, create a super efficient house. If it's the environment you care about then also factor in the footprint of materials used. Some people go PH to 'go eco' but then build huge houses using large amounts of resources and materials. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 17Nov 05, 2021 6:17 am stonesthrow FWIW in Adelaide you'd be looking at $500k+ for a certified passivhaus and that's for a very modest sized home. You will also need to engage an architect who specialises in this design. If you have the money and want to try it out, go for it. However just focusing on solar passive principles will get you a long way for less. Going for better windows, insulation and air tightness will reach a point where the increase in benefits starts to become minimal in terms of thermal efficiency. PH crosses that line of not being worth it in my view. However, some people are not that constrained by money so by all means, create a super efficient house. If it's the environment you care about then also factor in the footprint of materials used. Some people go PH to 'go eco' but then build huge houses using large amounts of resources and materials. I find this thread extremely interesting with some really thought provoking comments. I have a bit of a passion for improving thermal efficiency, not an expert by any means, but when I built my place in 2019 I was on a pretty tight budget ( 4 kids are expensive). I think spent less that $2000 on trying to get my home let's say more air tight. The difference in winter is incredible. On the coldest Sydney mornings when its 5 degrees outside we are still 18-19 inside. Most of the winter days we are 20-21 degrees without heating. Here is what I did: 1. Sarking - We sarked every single wall and taped every joint so there was no gaps with insulation tape. Sarking cost me around $1700. Admittedly I used my 2 teenage boys as free labour for the taping. Might have paid them $50, but nothing substantial 2. Expandable Foam - where ever there was a penetration, be it a water pipe or electrical conduit, we filled that with expandable foam. probably spent $60 and a bit of labour. 3 Walls have r2.5 batts and ceiling have both an R1.5 anticon blanket and R5.0 batts. 4. Windows - my biggest regret, I have a combination of commercial and residential due to budget constraints. For those who don't know the different residential glass is roughly 4mm residential v 6mm for commercial. In summer, the rooms with commercial glass are substantially cooler. If I was to every build another house for myself I would go a step further and spend another $30-40,000 doing the following: 1. I would cover the entire frame and roof with a 15mm structural ply, seal every joint, then sark and seal every joint in the sarking. 2. I would be more careful with my window sizing on the western and northern facades and choose either low E or double glazing. I dont think I would go the next step and get a fresh air ventilation system as Sydney's climate is mild enough to be able to open windows most of the year. The takeaways for me are: 1. Living in a home with better thermal comfort is a fantastic experience. Not freezing when you wake up in winter and being able to wear t shirts around the house is liberating. This past June on a very cold day I turned up at a new client's home and they were almost wearing ski gear it was so cold inside their old home. 2. You can get really effective results without breaking the bank. Sorry for the long post. Have to go to work now Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 18Nov 05, 2021 7:19 am Ashington Homes stonesthrow FWIW in Adelaide you'd be looking at $500k+ for a certified passivhaus and that's for a very modest sized home. You will also need to engage an architect who specialises in this design. If you have the money and want to try it out, go for it. However just focusing on solar passive principles will get you a long way for less. Going for better windows, insulation and air tightness will reach a point where the increase in benefits starts to become minimal in terms of thermal efficiency. PH crosses that line of not being worth it in my view. However, some people are not that constrained by money so by all means, create a super efficient house. If it's the environment you care about then also factor in the footprint of materials used. Some people go PH to 'go eco' but then build huge houses using large amounts of resources and materials. I find this thread extremely interesting with some really thought provoking comments. I have a bit of a passion for improving thermal efficiency, not an expert by any means, but when I built my place in 2019 I was on a pretty tight budget ( 4 kids are expensive). I think spent less that $2000 on trying to get my home let's say more air tight. The difference in winter is incredible. On the coldest Sydney mornings when its 5 degrees outside we are still 18-19 inside. Most of the winter days we are 20-21 degrees without heating. Here is what I did: 1. Sarking - We sarked every single wall and taped every joint so there was no gaps with insulation tape. Sarking cost me around $1700. Admittedly I used my 2 teenage boys as free labour for the taping. Might have paid them $50, but nothing substantial 2. Expandable Foam - where ever there was a penetration, be it a water pipe or electrical conduit, we filled that with expandable foam. probably spent $60 and a bit of labour. 3 Walls have r2.5 batts and ceiling have both an R1.5 anticon blanket and R5.0 batts. 4. Windows - my biggest regret, I have a combination of commercial and residential due to budget constraints. For those who don't know the different residential glass is roughly 4mm residential v 6mm for commercial. In summer, the rooms with commercial glass are substantially cooler. If I was to every build another house for myself I would go a step further and spend another $30-40,000 doing the following: 1. I would cover the entire frame and roof with a 15mm structural ply, seal every joint, then sark and seal every joint in the sarking. 2. I would be more careful with my window sizing on the western and northern facades and choose either low E or double glazing. I dont think I would go the next step and get a fresh air ventilation system as Sydney's climate is mild enough to be able to open windows most of the year. The takeaways for me are: 1. Living in a home with better thermal comfort is a fantastic experience. Not freezing when you wake up in winter and being able to wear t shirts around the house is liberating. This past June on a very cold day I turned up at a new client's home and they were almost wearing ski gear it was so cold inside their old home. 2. You can get really effective results without breaking the bank. Sorry for the long post. Have to go to work now Simeon Good points. You could get a better performance for $0 just by getting the design right. Good orientation, rooms in the right locations, appropriate external shading, correct window sizing/location in each room etc. can be all done at the concept stage for no extra cost. Maybe spend up to $1000 to get an energy assessor model the plan and give you more advice. If you want to go further and spend dollars, the next steps would be upgrade insulation, double glaze and better air tightness (usually by a better builder who will generally cost more than a volume builder). Like you touched on, it also depends a lot on which climate you're in. Sydney is much easier to create thermal comfort than say Canberra or Hobart. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 19Nov 05, 2021 7:45 am It's not $0. Ashingtons example was cheap, But is appears they also built their own home - they had unparalleled access to do these things to it and could do it at cost. Unless you are doing this, your builder will charge you for it, so Good design can still cost an arm and a leg to achieve for somone engaging a builder tobuild their home. The point is that there are many ways to achieve thermal efficiency without going down a route of some boutique German certification and likley cheaper. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Experience with Passivhaus/Passive House certification 20Nov 05, 2021 7:58 am Noname It's not $0. Ashingtons example was cheap, But is appears they also built their own home - they had unparalleled access to do these things to it and could do it at cost. Unless you are doing this, your builder will charge you for it, so Good design can still cost an arm and a leg to achieve for somone engaging a builder tobuild their home. The point is that there are many ways to achieve thermal efficiency without going down a route of some boutique German certification and likley cheaper. Of course it can cost zero. The core fundamentals are easy to learn. Of course it will only get you so far without engaging an expert, but even shifting rooms and removing windows /reducing window size can achieve a lot. Sometimes a simple mirror of a plan would achieve a lot. All you would need is a builder willing to make changes (some aren't). It could even reduce the cost if you're removing windows or making them smaller. For your reference Performance Labels: Window assemblies in housing, except timber windows, must be labelled so the label can be seen when it is in situ. For timber… 6 2358 0 2182 I apologise for any confusion, but your understanding is correct. We approached our situation differently based on advice from… 11 37603 |