Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Sep 22, 2021 2:46 pm Good afternoon all, I am in the process of organising concrete for a skirt around the foundation of our new house. Along one side of the house, 1 out of 3 concreter's we have had quote, have said we will need a retaining wall along the fence before we can have the concrete done. The others have said they will just 'box it out' and do the concrete, without the need for a wall. I have attached 2 photos. Our neighbours garage is on the left, with our side of the house seen on the right. Any advice on this issue is greatly appreciated. We personally have no idea what to believe. Thanks. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 3Sep 22, 2021 7:54 pm Hi pulse. Thanks for the reply. They are not right on the boundary, there is enough room for a fence (as opposed to their bricks representing the actual boundary like some blocks) Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 5Sep 23, 2021 10:49 am moudzj I think the odd concreter is right here. This should be fenced/retained first, and then some fill brought in to adjust levels, and then poured properly. What I was going to do (before talk of an actual retaining wall) was build the fence along the whole way, with a double plinth at the bottom, therefore raising the base of the fence, acting as a retaining wall of sorts and assisting in levelling out the ground. Then concreting after that is done. Would that work? Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 6Sep 23, 2021 10:55 am Cappa87 moudzj I think the odd concreter is right here. This should be fenced/retained first, and then some fill brought in to adjust levels, and then poured properly. What I was going to do (before talk of an actual retaining wall) was build the fence along the whole way, with a double plinth at the bottom, therefore raising the base of the fence, acting as a retaining wall of sorts and assisting in levelling out the ground. Then concreting after that is done. Would that work? In my opinion, this would be the best way to do it. Also this way in the future, if you ever need to cut or remove part of, or all of the path for whatever reason, you wont disturb your neighbours property. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 7Sep 23, 2021 11:00 am Thanks for the opinion. This was the plan with the 2 x concreters (and the fencer) who said I didn't need the actual retaining wall. The suggestion of a retaining wall in addition to the fence has just thrown me, and given my lack of knowledge, I didn't know what to think. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 10Sep 23, 2021 2:20 pm A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 11Sep 23, 2021 3:02 pm Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 12Sep 23, 2021 3:05 pm Noname Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. Thank you very much for that advice, I expected as much. I will look in to the spoon drain solution. It has to be linked in to a storm water? as opposed to perhaps running out to the front of the property? Maybe a silly question. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 13Sep 23, 2021 3:09 pm Noname Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. not quite. he's responsible for not changing the natural direction of water flow, or not creating unnatural channels for water where it would all collect and couple of spots and amplify the stream. if the natural direction of flow before any houses were constructed was from his property onto his neighbor's, and his neighbor decided to cut the block creating even bigger drop, and opportunity for water to pool - then it would be his neighbor's responsibility Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 14Sep 23, 2021 3:16 pm strannik Noname Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. not quite. he's responsible for not changing the natural direction of water flow, or not creating unnatural channels for water where it would all collect and couple of spots and amplify the stream. if the natural direction of flow before any houses were constructed was from his property onto his neighbor's, and his neighbor decided to cut the block creating even bigger drop, and opportunity for water to pool - then it would be his neighbor's responsibility This description of events is exactly the case. Land naturally flowed downhill in that direction on a very minor slope. My block ended up a little higher after construction at the point of the slab. They then had their land cut even lower prior to their construction. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 15Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm strannik Noname Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. not quite. he's responsible for not changing the natural direction of water flow, or not creating unnatural channels for water where it would all collect and couple of spots and amplify the stream. if the natural direction of flow before any houses were constructed was from his property onto his neighbor's, and his neighbor decided to cut the block creating even bigger drop, and opportunity for water to pool - then it would be his neighbor's responsibility is that the argument you want to have with the neighbour when (not if) it happens? Keep in mind that the builders created the artificial grading away from the house as per most drainage notes on foundation designs. Easily argued that changed the natural flow of the water to directly into the neighboring property. That said, those provisions are more about not directing existing flows that are otherwise naturally occurring such as streams, creeks or specifically building a channel to aggregate run off and then wantonly directing it somewhere it shouldn't be rather than the LPOD. The scenario the OP has would be covered under "unreasonable flow of water between properties" in Victoria. Given it would be due to landscaping or concreting, it becomes a civil matter. So i dont think you could argue any natural course exists in this scenario. Like I said, cheaper to collect it and dispose of before ending up in an expensive argument with the neighbor. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 16Sep 23, 2021 3:53 pm Cappa87 Noname Cappa87 A further question somewhat related - as you can see from the photos, the neighbour (on the left) has had a site cut on their block that has resulted in it being significantly lower than mine. This was not the case before, or at least, nowhere near to the extent it is now. Am I responsible for directing water away from their brick wall? The builders of their structure are required to allow for drainage away from the structure, but it doesn't appear possible at the boundary like that. My land clearly slopes away form my brickwork as required by our builder. You are responsible for ensuring you don't direct water towards their property. As it stands now, you are. As it stands with a perimeter path with adequate fall you will still be directing water that way. You should install a spoon drain to collect it and channel it to storm water. The pic doesn't look like it is reactive clay, but hard to tell. In any case, the neighbor's ditch and low site cut is their problem, you just want to make sure you're not adding to it before they have an issue and start blaming your water management as the cause. That will be more expensive than having the spoon drain installed. Thank you very much for that advice, I expected as much. I will look in to the spoon drain solution. It has to be linked in to a storm water? as opposed to perhaps running out to the front of the property? Maybe a silly question. you could, but depending on where it would discharge and the impact of that discharge, you could end up with a different problem. considder strannik's point about amplifying. You may not know what the long term effect of doing this is. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 17Sep 23, 2021 4:20 pm Noname is that the argument you want to have with the neighbour when (not if) it happens? Keep in mind that the builders likley created the artificial grading away from the house as per most drainage notes on foundation designs. easily argued that changed the natural flow of the water to directly into the neighboring property. Like I said, cheaper to collect it and dispose of before ending up in an expensive argument with the neighbor. it's not going to be 'easily argued' if there is a general slope in the land towards the neighbor's house. on the contrary, it will be 'easily argued' that the problems are of the neighbor's own (or rather their builder's) doing since they decided to cut the land creating opportunity for water to pool there. you could probably also just as easily argue that putting the house there actually protects them from most of the discharge, since it's collected by the roof as well as other side of the house, and directed into the drainage instead of flowing across the land. i would suggest to the neighbor that they should put a strip drain next to their wall to direct any water away. cause if you leave that gap, there's still a good chance there will be water pooling there, even if OP puts a strip drain on the edge of their skirting. that's what i'm planning to do in the new house we're building, cause my view is that it's my responsibility to protect my investment, rather than rely on neighbors to do so and argue the finer legal points when the issue arises. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 18Sep 23, 2021 4:40 pm strannik it's not going to be 'easily argued' if there is a general slope in the land towards the neighbor's house. on the contrary, it will be 'easily argued' that the problems are of the neighbor's own (or rather their builder's) doing since they decided to cut the land creating opportunity for water to pool there. you could probably also just as easily argue that putting the house there actually protects them from most of the discharge, since it's collected by the roof as well as other side of the house, and directed into the drainage instead of flowing across the land. i would suggest to the neighbor that they should put a strip drain next to their wall to direct any water away. cause if you leave that gap, there's still a good chance there will be water pooling there, even if OP puts a strip drain on the edge of their skirting. that's what I'm planning to do in the new house we're building, cause my view is that it's my responsibility to protect my investment, rather than rely on neighbors to do so and argue the finer legal points when the issue arises. it's not a general slope. It's landscaping done by the builder as part of the foundation/drainage design. Sure the neighbours site cut is not the OPs fault, but again there is enough going on the OPs property for there to be plenty points of contention for an argument that escalates and result in reports, professional opinions etc. Expensive. Because it would be a civil matter, if the neighbor engages through that process, it wouldn't matter what the "real" story is or who is right, but sure as hell collecting and disposing of the water will result in a shorter lived argument that costs less than the one you're suggesting. the neighbor can do a bunch of stuff to protect their property too, but thats not in the OPs control. SO in my opinion, op should do what is in their control to head off any arguments or perceived liability that results from not doing it. seems pretty sensible to me. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 19Sep 23, 2021 4:51 pm the problem is that what you're suggesting isn't going to shorten the argument in the event the issue does arise. because it will still be a matter of reports and professional opinions on whether the drainage is adequate Re: Concrete skirt question. Retaining wall or not? 20Sep 23, 2021 8:36 pm [quote="strannik":3ftptx0k]the problem is that what you're suggesting isn't going to shorten the argument in the event the issue does arise. because it will still be a matter of reports and professional opinions on whether the drainage is adequate [/quote:3ftptx0k] It does shorten it because it wouldn't be a protracted argument. There wouldn't be a slew of conflicting opinions, because there is only one reasonable outcome - if the water is collected and diverted from the neighbours property, then the op hasn't contributed to the damage or acted in a negligent way. End of argument. I don't think any profesional would risk their reputation to provide a report that contradicts that. 😉 If you need help tying your shoelaces in the morning, I'll be busy, sorry. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Thanks for your reply! All valid points and I agree with you on many of them. I am in QLD, any recommendations on a construction lawyer would be helpful 3 2629 Thank you again Simeon.. I will call my certifier for that. Have a good day 4 5141 Thanks for the insights, that makes perfect sense, and yeah, I will be leaning on the experience of the excavator operator entirely. 6 16105 |