Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Aug 28, 2021 6:48 pm [EDIT: title change]
Hello h1 brains trust, This first home buyer is in need of your collective wisdom and advice. Grateful for anything you can share that could help me out of this. Long story short(ish): I purchased a specific lot (untitled) on the say-so of a volume builder to build a specific design of theirs on it. (God that sounds naive now I see it typed on a page.) Now, the developer won't approve the build I was assured by the builder was compliant, and will only approve the build if 1500mm (x9500mm) is chopped off/out of the build. I'm $1.5k in the hole to the builder for a build that is not what they promised, and that they should have known was not compliant from the start, but worse, i'm stuck with a block of land that will not fit the smallest 3br builds of now three volume builders I have approached. What can I do? What makes the most sense financially, and considering the 5months+ already put into this, that I can never get back? The long version: I started to put feelers out to builders earlier this year to get some idea of costs, timeframes, processes involved in building a new house, specifically as a single, first home owner. Given that I would be the only applicant on the homeloan, I wasn't even sure I was in a financial position to be approved for a loan. Once I had a vague idea how the whole thing works, knew I could service a loan, and what I could build for my intended budget having contacted various builders, in MAR2021 I chose and began working with a specific volume builder (B) who had a design I liked and who could facilitate finding land to build it on. On written advice from Bs sales rep (SR) I purchased the lot they recommended (titling late 2022) in regional Victoria. (APR2021) At the time of signing the land contract & paying land deposit (APR2021) B requested payment of $500 as initial deposit to prepare itemised build quote having already advised an estimated overall figure for the build and providing the proposed "compliant" siting plan. Subesquently, B then issued prelim quote with various upgrades/colour choices that had been costed and agreed, which I signed (APR2021), paying a further $1000 to move the build process forward and have the HIA contract drawn up said to take 4weeks. After chasing up twice, contract was finally issued almost 8 weeks later. (JUN2021) SR had told me, in writing, on multiple occasions since March that the proposed siting was compliant with D guidelines. Unconvinced I raised it directly with SR in writing at least twice, and even asked SR via email "why doesn't the proposed siting have to comply with D guidelines?" SR told me they "had read D guidelines" and it was compliant. At the eleventh hour, (second week of June 2021) still unconvinced that the build/siting was compliant, I contacted the developer directly seeking confirmation of relevant setbacks, and that Bs proposed siting was compliant. By this point SR had even at one point told me the build/siting was compliant with the Small Lot Building Code. I could not see anywhere in the land contract that said my lot - at ~315m2 - was designated as a small lot. On 29th June, having raised my concerns about compliance with D guidelines with a new contact at B, the new contact emailed to say they were in talks with D, and did not have a resolution but would advise me of outcome asap. Meanwhile SR is still contacting me wanting to 'go through/allay any final concerns' to get the HIA contract signed and "make sure I didn't miss out on extra 10k regional FHOG...." At this point, I told SR that I wasn't going to sign because I wanted the contract looked at by a lawyer/conveyancer to protect my interests/do my due diligence and would rather lose the 10k regional FHOG than run the risk of signing and have it cost me more in the long run becasue of something I overlooked. On 30th June, the last day to have contract signed to be eligible for regional FHOG and after weeks of chasing up an outcome, D rejected Bs siting as being non-compliant with D guidelines, and stated they will only approve the build if over 1500mm is cut from the length to comply with setbacks per D guidelines. (D guidelines are more onerous than council/standard in this.) We're talking here about reducing a 15.Xm build length to under 14m, reducing internal space by something like 1500mm*9500mm. Fast forward to this week, an email arrives from a new rep from B - a customer relationship guru (RG) - with new drawings and telling me (SURPRISE!) that they have to reduce the size of the build to comply with D guidelines, and if I can let them know I'm happy with the changes they'll go ahead and reissue the HIA contract, with credit for reduction in floorplan. ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME?! I didn't reply because, just WTF. RG then calls me a couple of days later to ask whether I received his email and if I was happy to go ahead with new changes like everything is just peachy. I would have screened his call if i'd known it was him because how do I even begin to address this? B knows I told them that I was worried it wasn't compliant but they've just pretended like it's nothing, like it's news to them. So, put on the spot I told RG that I don't want the changes, that I only purchased the block because SR told me to, and told me repeatedly the builld was compliant, despite my questioning it and now here I am stuck with this land that two other builders can't fit their smallest build on it, and have no idea how to move forward with any of it. RG listened like it was all new to him, said he could understand that I didn't want to reduce the size, but there was really no other option. RG said would pass my decision on to his manager to see if another solution could be found, would let SR & their manager know too. I told RG (now realising that doing so was probably a mistake) that D said they may consider allowing me to effectively exchange my lot, for a fee, and obviously for the difference in price of the land, and that the price point of a new lot the same size as my currenyt one is looking like being at least 50k on top of the price I paid for mine. Maybe that will end up being the least bad option? I can never get the last 5 months back in terms of equity (I doubt D will re-value the lot in my favour,) or the 9 months (and counting) difference between the projected titling dates. After hanging up, for good measure, I forwarded RG the emails from SR evidencing the times SR had told me the build/siting was compliant and I had nothing to worry about. I honestly thought that it would spark a bit of an "oh f.ck" moment for RG & people up the chain, and that I would have someone important from B writing me to apologise and acknowledging that SR f.cked up, that it has put me in this position, and at the very least offering to refund my deposit, no questions asked. Naively I thought they might even offer to cover the admin/contract fees for changing lots, or offer to throw in a few extra upgrades or something if I stayed with them. Nope! SR emailed me later the same day or maybe it was the next(?) to say RG had passed on that I don't approve of and won't proceed with the proposed changes. SR wrote that they can understand that I don't want to reduce the size of the build and like water off a duck's back, essentially put the fault on D saying "it's unfortunate that D won't bend their rules." No ownership of the f.ck up, no acknowledgement that they gave me the wrong information - repeatedly, no apology, no solution, nothing. And to add insult to injury, SR had the gall to ask me if i'd agreed on a new lot with D yet, and to let SR know asap once I know the new lot price so SR can get the broker to call me to re-evaluate my borrowing capacity. !?!? If you've made it this far into my situation/rant, thanks for sticking it out. What should I do? Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 4Aug 29, 2021 12:16 am I'm really surprised that those setbacks can't be relaxed (for a fee). Over here that lot would go under small lot category. We're currently building on 392m lot and setbacks are 3m front, 1.75 back. You can also consider building without eaves at the back (and front if you're allowed) to give you up to a meter of usable space back. Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 6Aug 29, 2021 2:13 pm strannik I'm really surprised that those setbacks can't be relaxed (for a fee). Over here that lot would go under small lot category. We're currently building on 392m lot and setbacks are 3m front, 1.75 back. You can also consider building without eaves at the back (and front if you're allowed) to give you up to a meter of usable space back. Thanks for the suggestions Strannik - eaves are allowed to encroach upt to a point so they are not currently affecting compliance with the required setbacks. Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 7Aug 29, 2021 2:48 pm oklouise what a nightmare!! can you post a copy of the plans and suggested alterations and what is the width of the block? Thanks oklouise, but for me it's not a matter of what the suggested alterations are. The thing is, I told SR that I was not willing to lose any internal space, that would not proceed with B if any reduction in size was required. They promised me they would be delivering what was agreed, and on that basis I signed land contracts and paid deposits for land and to B, only to be told now that I have signed my life away, that they can't deliver on what they promised. As the authority/industry expert in this space, they should have known that, and, they had the necessary information available to them all along. EDIT: for typos Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 8Aug 29, 2021 3:23 pm awkwajena oklouise what a nightmare!! can you post a copy of the plans and suggested alterations and what is the width of the block? Thanks oklouise, but for me it's not a matter of what the suggested alterations are. The thing is, I told SR that I was not willing to lose any internal space, that would not proceed with B if any reduction in size was required. They promised me they would be delivering what was agreed, and on that basis I signed land contracts and paid deposits for land and to B, only to be told now that I have signed my life away, that they can't deliver on what they promised. As the authority/industry expert in this space, they should have known that, and, they had the necessary information available to them all along. EDIT: for typos i was hoping that there could be some modification that could help but now only options seems to be get legal advice before any further action, best of luck Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 9Aug 29, 2021 3:56 pm oklouise awkwajena oklouise what a nightmare!! can you post a copy of the plans and suggested alterations and what is the width of the block? Thanks oklouise, but for me it's not a matter of what the suggested alterations are. The thing is, I told SR that I was not willing to lose any internal space, that would not proceed with B if any reduction in size was required. They promised me they would be delivering what was agreed, and on that basis I signed land contracts and paid deposits for land and to B, only to be told now that I have signed my life away, that they can't deliver on what they promised. As the authority/industry expert in this space, they should have known that, and, they had the necessary information available to them all along. EDIT: for typos i was hoping that there could be some modification that could help but now only options seems to be get legal advice before any further action, best of luck Thanks, I do appreciate that you're offering help, and I don't mean to be ungrateful There is room within the bounds of the build envelope once setbacks are accounted for, to extend the width by 1970mm down one side (14m) but B are a volume builder and I get the feeling that their current proposal is already pushing it in terms of their willingness to amend their designs. They could have proposed to put the deleted space back by incorporating down the side, but the didn't/ Plus, even if B agreed to add that, the configuration of the rooms would see it adding to bedrooms and wet areas, and would require even more customisation to put it back in the living/dining/kitchen where is had been taken from. Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 10Aug 29, 2021 4:01 pm Just keep in mind that pursuing legal action might cost you a lot, with no guranteed result. A lawyer will probably tell you that in your initial appointment. Even initial consultations might cost you close to what you're likely to get back from the builder (your deposit). Tbh if you absolutely can't use this lot for your purpose (like building a 2 storey house instead), I would just resell the lot and buy something else. You might even make some money off it if the land prices went up in your area. Re: Help. Builder convinced me to a specific lot, now can't 11Aug 29, 2021 5:19 pm strannik Just keep in mind that pursuing legal action might cost you a lot, with no guranteed result. A lawyer will probably tell you that in your initial appointment. Even initial consultations might cost you close to what you're likely to get back from the builder (your deposit). Tbh if you absolutely can't use this lot for your purpose (like building a 2 storey house instead), I would just resell the lot and buy something else. You might even make some money off it if the land prices went up in your area. Thanks strannik. Agreed, I really don't want to go down the road of pursuing legal action, I don't need that drama. And you're right it's $ for possibly nothing, and I went into this wanting to spend modestly, comfortably within my means not throwing money away. On selling the land/nominating a new purchaser, I am worried that if I do that, I will no longer be eligible for the base 10k First Home Owner Grant (FHOG.) Does anyone know definitively? On the SRO website, there is no reference to previous land purchases in the eligibility criteria, though equally, i'm yet to read anywhere that prior ownership of residential land definitely does not impact FHOG eligibility. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 12Aug 29, 2021 7:41 pm You will lose the grant on this one (not sure if it will make you ineligible for the future). You'll also be up for stamp duty if you flip straight away, but you can potentially make more than that (again, depending on the prices in your area). Give you an example: the lot we signed a contract on last November, has settled just now. A lot 50m smaller than ours around the corner just sold for 80k over the price we paid. That's how much prices moved in 9 months in our area. So before you try to get rid of it, make sure you're not just giving away lots of equity to someone else. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 13Aug 29, 2021 7:46 pm Also maybe look at other builders too, you don't have to use volume builders to get economical build, and some other buildrs might be more accomodating to fitting a house within allowed setbacks Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 14Aug 29, 2021 11:27 pm Previously owning land doesn't exclude you from the fhog, I owned a block back when I was 18 and it wasn't an issue. It does affect eligibility for the first home loan deposit scheme if you were using that. awkwajena strannik Just keep in mind that pursuing legal action might cost you a lot, with no guranteed result. A lawyer will probably tell you that in your initial appointment. Even initial consultations might cost you close to what you're likely to get back from the builder (your deposit). Tbh if you absolutely can't use this lot for your purpose (like building a 2 storey house instead), I would just resell the lot and buy something else. You might even make some money off it if the land prices went up in your area. Thanks strannik. Agreed, I really don't want to go down the road of pursuing legal action, I don't need that drama. And you're right it's $ for possibly nothing, and I went into this wanting to spend modestly, comfortably within my means not throwing money away. On selling the land/nominating a new purchaser, I am worried that if I do that, I will no longer be eligible for the base 10k First Home Owner Grant (FHOG.) Does anyone know definitively? On the SRO website, there is no reference to previous land purchases in the eligibility criteria, though equally, i'm yet to read anywhere that prior ownership of residential land definitely does not impact FHOG eligibility. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 16Sep 12, 2021 1:51 pm I've tried to read through your post and understand it. Feel free to correct my assumptions if I have gottent them wrong. So to date you have paid $1500 to the builder? You don't own the land outright because its not titled yet but paid a deposit on it and will pay the balance 30 days after titles issued? So was that included in the $1500 approve or extra costs that you have outlayed. Where abouts in Regional Victoria are you building? Prices have really gone up. And it just maybe worthwhile building any house that you can fit onto the block. Live in it for a year (if your doing FHOG) and then flick it and buy something else. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 17Sep 12, 2021 8:59 pm icat2000 I've tried to read through your post and understand it. Feel free to correct my assumptions if I have gottent them wrong. So to date you have paid $1500 to the builder? You don't own the land outright because its not titled yet but paid a deposit on it and will pay the balance 30 days after titles issued? So was that included in the $1500 approve or extra costs that you have outlayed. Where abouts in Regional Victoria are you building? Prices have really gone up. And it just maybe worthwhile building any house that you can fit onto the block. Live in it for a year (if your doing FHOG) and then flick it and buy something else. Hi icat2000, Thanks - yep you've understood correctly. $1500 to the builder so far, being $500 initial deposit required byt the builder when I signed the land contract, and then $1000 at signing of prelim quote having chosen upgrades, colours, electrics etc, in order to progress to issue of contract & additional drawings etc. I don't own the land outright, but I am contracted to buy it and cannot cancel that contract without significant cost. I have paid ~$12000 to the land sales agent as deposit for the land, and yep the rest is due after titling. You may well be right just building whatever I can fit but that will leave me worse off financially, thank to builder funk ups. I'm building in Geelong City Council area, prices have increased, but I'd planned to build and hold, not looking to build & sell. In letting go of my intended build plan and just building anything that can fit, i'm looking at either having to build a 2br (instead of 3) which is going to fairly significantly affect both resale and rental return, or finding a custom builder which is going to add costs that may well push me into spending more than is smart, and still means internal size/floor space remains compromised. What do you think about the loss of the regional FHOG? Ddo you think just cut my losses in terms of the 10k regional FHOG that I lost because of builder delay/mistake/incompetence? They knew the whole time that 30 June was a critical date to have contracts signed for me to be eligible for that 10k. Thanks, appreciate your thoughts! Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 18Sep 13, 2021 3:25 pm couple things to consider:
Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 19Sep 14, 2021 12:01 pm awkwajena icat2000 I've tried to read through your post and understand it. Feel free to correct my assumptions if I have gottent them wrong. So to date you have paid $1500 to the builder? You don't own the land outright because its not titled yet but paid a deposit on it and will pay the balance 30 days after titles issued? So was that included in the $1500 approve or extra costs that you have outlayed. Where abouts in Regional Victoria are you building? Prices have really gone up. And it just maybe worthwhile building any house that you can fit onto the block. Live in it for a year (if your doing FHOG) and then flick it and buy something else. Hi icat2000, Thanks - yep you've understood correctly. $1500 to the builder so far, being $500 initial deposit required byt the builder when I signed the land contract, and then $1000 at signing of prelim quote having chosen upgrades, colours, electrics etc, in order to progress to issue of contract & additional drawings etc. I don't own the land outright, but I am contracted to buy it and cannot cancel that contract without significant cost. I have paid ~$12000 to the land sales agent as deposit for the land, and yep the rest is due after titling. You may well be right just building whatever I can fit but that will leave me worse off financially, thank to builder funk ups. I'm building in Geelong City Council area, prices have increased, but I'd planned to build and hold, not looking to build & sell. In letting go of my intended build plan and just building anything that can fit, i'm looking at either having to build a 2br (instead of 3) which is going to fairly significantly affect both resale and rental return, or finding a custom builder which is going to add costs that may well push me into spending more than is smart, and still means internal size/floor space remains compromised. What do you think about the loss of the regional FHOG? Ddo you think just cut my losses in terms of the 10k regional FHOG that I lost because of builder delay/mistake/incompetence? They knew the whole time that 30 June was a critical date to have contracts signed for me to be eligible for that 10k. Thanks, appreciate your thoughts! When I meant flick it off. Use it to build and get into the market and then sell it and buy or build something else. Its better to get a foothold in than play the waiting game because you cannot save enough on a rising market. As you have already committed to the land price then you have brought it at the value it was at that particular time. It might be worth much more when it titles. Can they not fit a three bedroom home on the site at all? Even if you build a double storey like the poster above suggests. Re: [VIC] First home buyer mislead by volume builder sales r 20Sep 17, 2021 11:27 am awkwajena [EDIT: title change] Hello h1 brains trust, This first home buyer is in need of your collective wisdom and advice. Grateful for anything you can share that could help me out of this. Long story short(ish): I purchased a specific lot (untitled) on the say-so of a volume builder to build a specific design of theirs on it. (God that sounds naive now I see it typed on a page.) Now, the developer won't approve the build I was assured by the builder was compliant, and will only approve the build if 1500mm (x9500mm) is chopped off/out of the build. I'm $1.5k in the hole to the builder for a build that is not what they promised, and that they should have known was not compliant from the start, but worse, i'm stuck with a block of land that will not fit the smallest 3br builds of now three volume builders I have approached. What can I do? What makes the most sense financially, and considering the 5months+ already put into this, that I can never get back? The long version: I started to put feelers out to builders earlier this year to get some idea of costs, timeframes, processes involved in building a new house, specifically as a single, first home owner. Given that I would be the only applicant on the homeloan, I wasn't even sure I was in a financial position to be approved for a loan. Once I had a vague idea how the whole thing works, knew I could service a loan, and what I could build for my intended budget having contacted various builders, in MAR2021 I chose and began working with a specific volume builder (B) who had a design I liked and who could facilitate finding land to build it on. On written advice from Bs sales rep (SR) I purchased the lot they recommended (titling late 2022) in regional Victoria. (APR2021) At the time of signing the land contract & paying land deposit (APR2021) B requested payment of $500 as initial deposit to prepare itemised build quote having already advised an estimated overall figure for the build and providing the proposed "compliant" siting plan. Subesquently, B then issued prelim quote with various upgrades/colour choices that had been costed and agreed, which I signed (APR2021), paying a further $1000 to move the build process forward and have the HIA contract drawn up said to take 4weeks. After chasing up twice, contract was finally issued almost 8 weeks later. (JUN2021) SR had told me, in writing, on multiple occasions since March that the proposed siting was compliant with D guidelines. Unconvinced I raised it directly with SR in writing at least twice, and even asked SR via email "why doesn't the proposed siting have to comply with D guidelines?" SR told me they "had read D guidelines" and it was compliant. At the eleventh hour, (second week of June 2021) still unconvinced that the build/siting was compliant, I contacted the developer directly seeking confirmation of relevant setbacks, and that Bs proposed siting was compliant. By this point SR had even at one point told me the build/siting was compliant with the Small Lot Building Code. I could not see anywhere in the land contract that said my lot - at ~315m2 - was designated as a small lot. On 29th June, having raised my concerns about compliance with D guidelines with a new contact at B, the new contact emailed to say they were in talks with D, and did not have a resolution but would advise me of outcome asap. Meanwhile SR is still contacting me wanting to 'go through/allay any final concerns' to get the HIA contract signed and "make sure I didn't miss out on extra 10k regional FHOG...." At this point, I told SR that I wasn't going to sign because I wanted the contract looked at by a lawyer/conveyancer to protect my interests/do my due diligence and would rather lose the 10k regional FHOG than run the risk of signing and have it cost me more in the long run becasue of something I overlooked. On 30th June, the last day to have contract signed to be eligible for regional FHOG and after weeks of chasing up an outcome, D rejected Bs siting as being non-compliant with D guidelines, and stated they will only approve the build if over 1500mm is cut from the length to comply with setbacks per D guidelines. (D guidelines are more onerous than council/standard in this.) We're talking here about reducing a 15.Xm build length to under 14m, reducing internal space by something like 1500mm*9500mm. Fast forward to this week, an email arrives from a new rep from B - a customer relationship guru (RG) - with new drawings and telling me (SURPRISE!) that they have to reduce the size of the build to comply with D guidelines, and if I can let them know I'm happy with the changes they'll go ahead and reissue the HIA contract, with credit for reduction in floorplan. ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME?! I didn't reply because, just WTF. RG then calls me a couple of days later to ask whether I received his email and if I was happy to go ahead with new changes like everything is just peachy. I would have screened his call if i'd known it was him because how do I even begin to address this? B knows I told them that I was worried it wasn't compliant but they've just pretended like it's nothing, like it's news to them. So, put on the spot I told RG that I don't want the changes, that I only purchased the block because SR told me to, and told me repeatedly the builld was compliant, despite my questioning it and now here I am stuck with this land that two other builders can't fit their smallest build on it, and have no idea how to move forward with any of it. RG listened like it was all new to him, said he could understand that I didn't want to reduce the size, but there was really no other option. RG said would pass my decision on to his manager to see if another solution could be found, would let SR & their manager know too. I told RG (now realising that doing so was probably a mistake) that D said they may consider allowing me to effectively exchange my lot, for a fee, and obviously for the difference in price of the land, and that the price point of a new lot the same size as my currenyt one is looking like being at least 50k on top of the price I paid for mine. Maybe that will end up being the least bad option? I can never get the last 5 months back in terms of equity (I doubt D will re-value the lot in my favour,) or the 9 months (and counting) difference between the projected titling dates. After hanging up, for good measure, I forwarded RG the emails from SR evidencing the times SR had told me the build/siting was compliant and I had nothing to worry about. I honestly thought that it would spark a bit of an "oh f.ck" moment for RG & people up the chain, and that I would have someone important from B writing me to apologise and acknowledging that SR f.cked up, that it has put me in this position, and at the very least offering to refund my deposit, no questions asked. Naively I thought they might even offer to cover the admin/contract fees for changing lots, or offer to throw in a few extra upgrades or something if I stayed with them. Nope! SR emailed me later the same day or maybe it was the next(?) to say RG had passed on that I don't approve of and won't proceed with the proposed changes. SR wrote that they can understand that I don't want to reduce the size of the build and like water off a duck's back, essentially put the fault on D saying "it's unfortunate that D won't bend their rules." No ownership of the f.ck up, no acknowledgement that they gave me the wrong information - repeatedly, no apology, no solution, nothing. And to add insult to injury, SR had the gall to ask me if i'd agreed on a new lot with D yet, and to let SR know asap once I know the new lot price so SR can get the broker to call me to re-evaluate my borrowing capacity. !?!? If you've made it this far into my situation/rant, thanks for sticking it out. What should I do? Hi awkwajena One option is, you could sell the land and look to build your dream home elsewhere. Cheers, John Get sound legal advice. We manage Building Disputes, Construction Contracts, Security of Payment. PM for queries. https://www.contractsspecialist.com.au/articles/ i did click it, still couldnt make it out rofl. in any case, doesnt look like too extreme a slope, you may be in luck. Just shoot out some emails to volume builders in… 3 14203 go upvc window frames ensure insulation under colorbond. not just sarking, lighter color roof also not sure if you have seen this viewtopic.php?t=5823 last couple of pages… 4 98151 Hi, Seeking volume or semi-custom builder in victoria(east), which have existing double story wide floor plans. Seeking 18-20m wide homes with depth of 12-15m long. Or… 0 18390 |