Thomas Archer Hive 45 - Boroondara [2021]

Hi All,

We have just started our first ever home build with TAH. Being our first home build, we are somewhat nervous and feel that we will miss important considerations so any guidance or feedback is highly appreciated.

At the same time, we would like to contribute back to the forum by documenting the entire journey with TAH and provide insights we learn on the way for new home builders.

Progress so far:
- Initial deposit and design fees paid following PSQ and concept design (July '21)
- Soil test and site survey completed (Aug '21) and now waiting for report
- Joinery list received and our selections provided (Aug '21)

Next steps:
- Soil and site survey report
- Master drawings
- Concept landscape design (not with TAH)

Summary of our build (mostly provisions at this stage):

• Hive 45 with C5 Facade (photo below)
• $45k site cost (we have a slope of ~1.5m across building footprint)
• $181k in upgrades incl C5 Facade which is not included in base price
• $14k in design changes with 17m2 increase in space
• $6k for engineered cover and scaffolding of pool within 2m of home
• $3k design fee

Overall experience (thus far):

The experience thus far has been exceptional. The Business Development Consultant (BDC) was a qualified architect/designer with many years of experience and understood the cost of upgrades and possible changes in detail.

We had spoken with several other builders and most of them didn’t appreciate the limitations of our block, or understand good design principles such as maximising north facing light.

The $3k design fee was unique to TAH, but we found this to be well justified given the upfront time and effort made by the BDC in drafting a custom design to suit our block.

Questions/considerations:

1. I’m thinking of going full electric so no gas because it’s better for the environment, but also reduces my upfront and ongoing costs. Are there any con’s I should consider?
2. Our landscaper is recommending a 6x3m concrete pool sit right up against the house behind the dining room which is single story. Does this still require an engineered cover for entire pool + scaffolding, or will a 225kg load bearing cover + fencing be sufficient?
3. Has anyone been successful with getting their builder to match online price for appliances? Might be something I have to do after handover.
4. Would doing reverse cycle HVAC 6 zone after handover be a good idea, and if so, are there any provisions I need to make with my builder? I have tradie mates that do heating/cooling.

Howdy fellow neighbor!

Just came across your post and we too are building our version of the Que in Boroondarah with TA - almost at plastering stage and the team have been working very quickly since they started mid April 2021.

We wish you all the very best and hope you have a wonderful journey towards moving into your first ever home build!

To quickly answer some of your questions -
1. Full electric - Initially we considered this but ultimately decided to get gas instead - it suited our style of cooking (Asian). To be honest I don't think there really is a wrong or right answer, just what you think will best suit your lifestyle once you settle in.
3. Price matching appliances - We tried to do this prior to signing the tender but unfortunately TA were unable to match. In the end we bought the set from Harvey Norman (Neff) a few months ago and took advantage of the promotion they had going at the time. Will now install post handover.

Hope this helps!

We are at a similar stage to you!

What joinery list did you receive from them?

With the 1.5m fall, how many steps have they allowed for across your slab?

Also keen to know who you are going with for your pool and landscaping.

Congrats!

Will be following with interest

The joinery list covers cabinetry e.g. kitchen, island, bathroom vanity, study, mudroom fitout, and living room fitout. It also has pricing for S grade of laminates.

Only one set of steps. 400mm if I recall correctly in discussions. I could potentially put another set of steps but the issue is that it raises the ceiling height of living spaces at back of house even further. With a 2700mm at front, the ceiling at back is 3100mm, which is already big dollars so going up to 3500mm with another set of stairs would be insanely expensive. Worth noting that we have an overshadowing of private space issue which only gets worse with higher ceilings.

I'm still looking at various options for pools but leaning towards a pre-cast fully tiled concrete pool. Pre-cast is relatively new but many builders such as Metricon and L37 are offering it as a standard option. Finding an experienced pool installer/builder who is familiar with pre-cast installation is the challenge. Landscape design is through Outdoor Creations.

Congrats, the Hive looks like a good floor plan and has some similar elements to what we have done.

To answer your questions:
1. We have gone full electric. I don't see any cons, unless you are hell bent on having gas for a specific reason. I'm not 100% sold that your upfront costs will be less, but if you pair it with solar panels I agree your ongoing costs will be less.
2. i'd be guessing they will still get you to do the hardcover. By way of reference ours was about 5.5k
3. Nope
4. I preferred to do something like HVAC with the builder, given the ducting / electrical required etc. I found the HVAC consultant to be very good and helpful with various options if that makes a difference

Do you know how many steps you need to meet the 400mm step down in the slab?

Hello! Awesome to see another build thread! We are just about to sign off on our Tender and move into contract stage. So not far ahead! Will be following your journey

Questions:

1. We are going full electric, and will be getting at least 10kw PV system post handover, and will assess if a battery makes sense or not down the line. One thing to note - you will need to change your hot water system to a heat pump system, which will mean you need a water tank plumbed to your toilets - this is about 5-6k for the tank.
2. Didn't get a pool - sorry can't really help here
3. TAH were firm that they can't get anything other than "Commercial prices" which is basically the RRP prices you see at E&S trading
4. We are getting our HVAC done with our build. If you are doing ducted, I suggest to do it with the build. Getting the ducting and vents etc on your ground floor will be difficult post handover. Not sure about provisions here, might be good to check with your mates as they may have an idea of what they would need to be able to install a ducted system post-handover. Have you thought about which system you want to get?

Looking forward to see how you progress! Best of luck!

Will let you know once draft master drawings are ready.

Thanks for the feedback. Definitely need to look more into going full electric.

Haven't looked into HVAC model yet but ideally it should have 6 zones and easy to use control panel. I hear Actron are popular but open to suggestions.

One thing that really solidified our choice to go full electric was our gas bill for the last month. We have a 2 year old so the heater is on most of the time (its gas ducted and only 2 zones, up and down). I think it was something like $400-500 for 28 days.

I've been researching other peoples solar PV setups and found a few that I think would have similar electric usage to us, and they are in credit at the end of the year. The idea to not have to pay gas/elec bills again just really sold it to me haha.

We are getting the ActronAir ESP Platinum QUE 19kw 3-phase system with 8 zones (approx $27k for us). Having researched the pro's to the system I knew it was worth the money considering how picky we are with temperature in our house. if we didn't care about the looks / amount of outdoor units, we like the control/efficiency of split systems, but really didn't want 8 units + multiple outdoor condensers.

Tell me about it. My current weatherboard home is 1 star without insulation so our gas bill is also through the roof.

The ESP Platinum QUE is top of the range and a really nice unit. If we're still within our budget, I'd like to get this also. Otherwise, we might have to settle with the Actron Advance + Neo controls.

Hi annakoh, while you are still looking for options, check for AirSmart small duct system too. This is far better than current offerings, But the price tag would be around 30 - 40K mark.

does TA offer AirSmart ? thx

have to check with them. Last time I checked there was one customer who got a system. ( not a lot of ppl do this due to the price tag is almost close to 2 x daikin systems )

it doesn't work with the traditional mass air flow concept , rather mixing the hot/cold air at a high velocity using low cross sectional ducts.

airsmart is available (we have it), but the 30-40k estimate i would suggest is quite a bit off

Cool. Roughly how much was your cost ? And how many kw ? Do you know the rough cost for a 20kw system ?

I got this number from an installation company near moorrrabin.

32kw system, 28 outlets and 3 zones.

100% heating output (ie entire house can be heated at same time) and 96% cooling output.

$67k - 2 yrs ago

interesting..I think it could be due to the quote is from a direct installer. if you add to the builders margin etc it would then bump up to approx 50K mark. which for a 20kw system looks in range. They didn't quote me with specifics like the # of zones or outlets. Could have been just the base offering then. Also explains why not a lot of ppl do this.

how is your experience with the system btw ? I was told the heating quality is as similar to what hydronic heating does.

i'm not so sure it is as simple as adding builder's margin onto the price as there are structural and electrical components to consider. Our HVAC consultant also said that it is not common for houses to achieve 100% heating / cooling output and most places generally go for 90-100% heating and at most 80% cooling. This is because most people don't heat or cool their entire house at any one time as not every part of the house is always in use.

The issue we had was that the max system size is 16 kw so we jumped effectively from 16 to 32 (i.e 2 units). I am unsure what other sizes are available (if at all).

As with all HVAC systems, the more zones / outlets the more expensive. We have 3 zones but have allowed for the ability to add 1 more for the kids to control their temperature when they are older. We have also spec'd nest thermostats to hopefully leverage on their smarts to be more efficient (the nests were not part of the 67k).

In terms of experience, our build is yet to finish. The price I gave was our contract price which was quoted about 18 months ago. I have used it a few times during the progress of the build and it is far superior to standard ducted systems. I can't compare to hydronic as I haven't lived in a house with hydronic. Most of the sub contractors that have been through the house also comment on it as well and the site supervisor (who has never had a system installed before on one of his builds) is impressed as well.

As a comparison, when we did our tender we also quoted a daikin system. That price was approx 30-35k from memory, however did not achieve the same output.