Thomas Archer Nouveau 41 Glen Eira Build [2021]

We’re building with TA and also putting in the sanden unit. We were given the option of the Rinnai or the sanden. This was towards the end of last year

We are at the PSQ stage, did anyone go way over their initial PSQ?
What costs or upgrades you may have not considered at PSQ, that came up later?

These threads are amazing we've learnt so much and hopefully can pass it on

For us, there was an $85k difference between PSQ and our tender. A large chunk of this were actually site costs (>$30k difference).

Our sales person (C) was actually pretty good at the PSQ stage, considering many upgrades early. The big ticket things we included after PSQ, by choice, included appliance upgrades ($10k), electrical upgrades ($15k - note we were told everyone goes over on this), flooring ($8k) and joinery ($7k).

I should also note that we actually saved some money on certain items between PSQ and Tender too. Ie. our sales person budgeted for $20k on the HVAC but it ended up being approx $17k.

We don't have a lot of custom joinery. We'll do this post handover. But from our experience and from talking with others, this is where the costs between PSQ and Tender can really start to climb.

The styling person at TA is great at keeping you to a budget *if* that is something that is important to you.

Update: We were given the option to get the Sanden unit (thank god). I just sent an email explaining why we shouldn't need a water tank (thanks Wellbuild - Let's see what they say!). But to be honest, I am just happy to be getting a top system vs the Rinnai (which I can't find much feedback on).

is the Sanden unit a electrical or gas hot water system with solar panel ?

as far as I know , water tank or solar hot water system , you must at least have 1 of them to quality the 6 star energy rating

We actually came in at $100K over our PSQ. But that wasn't a surprise to us as we added in direct stick flooring, the $27k actron system, the natural stone benchtops/splashbacks, and about $12k site cost increase. We didn't add a lot of the appliances, electricals etc. in the PSQ, but to be honest, we had no guidance around this and only now looking back do I have the knowledge to actually state the upgrades I would like. At least I know what to do for our next build

Thanks to Wellbuild, I understood the rules around this and also the loophole, and hopefully this helps someone in the future. (for clarity, this was my explanation to TAH, we haven't heard back if they agree to this yet)

The building regulation (PN-55) that explains the rules around this:


All new Class 1 buildings require:
• A rainwater tank (minimum capacity of 2000 litres) connected to all toilets in the building for the purpose of sanitary flushing; or
• A solar water heater system installed in accordance with the Plumbing Regulations 2008 (the Plumbing Regulations)

The Plumbing Regulations allows two different options of water heated systems to choose from:
• a gas boosted solar water heater or
• a heat pump water heater (if it is not connected to the mains electricity supply)

Where a heat pump water heater is installed, no part of the heater that is capable of heating water is to be connected to mains electricity.

"A Sanden Hot Water Heat Pump uses industry-leading technology found in refrigeration and air conditioning units, where energy is drawn in from the ambient atmosphere and transferred into heat. An Ozone friendly refrigerant R744 (CO2) absorbs the heat, which then flows into a compressor where it’s converted into a high-temperature gas. Then, it passes through a condenser within the water tank and the water is heated up. No backup booster is required." Ref

Given the Sanden system does not use electricity to heat the water, but rather draws energy from the ambient atmosphere to heat the water, it is my understanding you should not need a 2000L water tank.

Great news.

To be honest, if our family was bigger, we'd have opted for the water tank and would be happy with this. I'm really supporting of water tanks and those that are plumbed to toilets.

But for our situation, we couldn't make the cost and savings work. That's why we'll put in a water tank for irrigation instead.

Excellent summary!

I'm told that the VBA regs will be hopefully changing soon anyway so folks might not need to use this.

Great summary. I will see how they react to you; and I will follow!!

To be honest with you, I am also not opposed to it. I'm all for renewable energy/sustainable living. Though the cost of the tank was something that I found hard to stomach and can't believe we'd spend $5000+ on flushing toilets over the course of us living at this house. And would help with the cost of our solar PV system (we unfortunately don't get a rebate )

So you are getting a rainwater tank post handover, but only for irrigation (garden hose/sprinklers?)

Is it difficult to get a tank plumbed to the toilets in the future?

I'm not a builder, but I'm guessing that getting a tank plumbed to your toilets after handover might be tricky and expensive relative to doing it during the build. You might be able to get it pre-plumbed though.

We're getting the sanden unit and also 3000L tank plumbed to all toilets. TA did discuss with us the option of "pre-plumbing" the toilets so that we could install a tank after handover, but in the end we just got TA to install the tank and (hopefully) keep it hassle free (no worries about building permit delays or "performance solutions"). I also figured that the savings in installing a tank after handover wouldn't be that great once you take into account the tank, pump, slab, installation and plumber to hook it all up.

From memory if they were to pre-plumb the toilets to be connected to a tank later, they would provide a inlet pipe with stopcock at the location you intend to install the tank, so your plumber just needs to connect your tank to this. So you want to have a good idea of where you'll put the tank and what size it will be.

Can't help you out with cost since we never got it priced, but I wouldn't think getting the pre-plumb would be too expensive, since they have to plumb your toilets to something anyway.

*edit* double post

Thanks for the info rockedout !

Update on the Heat pump hot water unit, we weren't able to skip the water tank, so we have just accepted it as part of the cost.

We got the Sanden 315L unit priced up, and it came to approx $2.4k - a lot higher than the amount wellbuild said they got ($850). I wonder why we have such a LARGE discrepancy? I'm getting worn out with this topic now and at this point we are just happy to absorb the cost as I know it is a vastly superior unit to the Rinnai.

$2.4k is really a lot higher than the Rinnai one... Why would you say the Sanden unit is "vastly superior"?

A few reasons:

Sanden uses 0.84kw of power to output 5kw of heat for a COP of 5.96, compared to the Rinnai at a COP of 4.

The Sanden unit is whisper quiet (literally at 37db) vs Rinnai at 48db (about the sound of light traffic).

Sanden has 6yr warranty on the unit and 15 yr warranty on the tank vs Rinnai at 3yr for unit and 6yr for tank

The Sanden unit also doesn't need a backup element to heat the water!

Understood. I was aware of these... but $2.4k...

Quick update: We have officially entered the contract stage!

Now it's time to get all of our pre-site preparations done..

Woo hoo!! So super exciting!! All the best ahead for the build and we can’t wait to see pics of your beautiful home come to life!

Yayyyy.... Hoping everything goes smoothly