Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Mar 12, 2021 9:52 am Hi everyone My wife and I are about to embark on a knock-down rebuild in Western Sydney. We are having a bit of trouble with locking down our kitchen & butler pantry lay-out (see below latest drawing with the butler largely empty reflecting the TBC status). We are thinking of moving the fridge cavity to the wall adjoining the Butler (and increasing the cavity to 1000W x 800D to accommodate a larger french-door fridge), facing the fridge out towards the island bench. This would obviously reduce the walking space in the butler (where we had envisaged having a L shaped 600mm deep bench, where we would have our double sink and dishwasher and where our airfryer, toaster etc would live). I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how best to achieve the above (if it can even be achieved at all!). The Butler adjoins a lounge room with dimensions 4070 (horizontal on the drawing below) x 3450 (vertical on the drawing below). We would prefer not to eat into the lounge space, but are willing to consider it. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 3Mar 14, 2021 3:48 pm Thanks Shux, that looks good. I suppose with your drawing below there is ~2800mm to accommodate the fridge cavity + walkway, bench depth and shelving in the Butler Pantry whereas we will have ~2100mm. In that case it seems like we would have to drop the bench depth to make it all work, or we could drop the shelving and narrow the walkway/eat into the adjacent lounge. Just a question about your drawing - we were planning to have the dishwasher adjacent to the double sink in the butler. The dishwasher door would then open into the walkway... do you think this would be a design flaw (there would be no/limited access to the walkway while the dishwasher door is fully open)? Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 4Mar 14, 2021 8:45 pm brampton Thanks Shux, that looks good. I suppose with your drawing below there is ~2800mm to accommodate the fridge cavity + walkway, bench depth and shelving in the Butler Pantry whereas we will have ~2100mm. In that case it seems like we would have to drop the bench depth to make it all work, or we could drop the shelving and narrow the walkway/eat into the adjacent lounge. Just a question about your drawing - we were planning to have the dishwasher adjacent to the double sink in the butler. The dishwasher door would then open into the walkway... do you think this would be a design flaw (there would be no/limited access to the walkway while the dishwasher door is fully open)? If you're going to rearrange it similar to the plan Shux posted you could consider the following tweaks. move the cooker into the external pantry wall with the fridge move the double sink to where the cooker is move the single sink and dishwasher into the left pantry wall so that when you walk into the opening you're facing the dishwasher and can access it front on. Rotating the kitchen that way gives you more space to play with in the pantry so you could widen the pantry so that you can walk around the dishwasher when its open from both sides. you could then add a sliding door to the pantry to cut off any noise when the dishwasher is running. that gives you the entire island bench for storage and prep/eating/homework etc without sacrificing your ability to clean things as the sink is easily in reach and has plenty of space around it as well. and the storage space in the island would be far deeper at 800-900mm deep vs most wall cupbaords at 600mm deep, letting you utilise the space for bulkier objects. Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 5Mar 15, 2021 7:16 am Hi Brampton, from the version we have, we're actually going to shorten the area with the fridge cavity is so the walkway is 1100 wide and the dishwasher opens into the butler pantry opening. The sink then moves along. I wanted the dishwasher near a double sink but didn't want the double sink in the island. From this the island also gets shortened and we add some width to square it out so we can sit around 2 sides rather than a row. My parents have the sink in the same position and their dishwasher at a right angle opening into the pantry. It works well for them as the dishwasher isn't open for a long time and doesn't limit access to the fridge etc to put food away. Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 6Mar 25, 2021 2:28 pm Thanks Spazzen and Shux Spazzen, thanks for the suggestions. We're happy with location of the cooktop and double sink for now. Good tip re: noise from the dishwasher. We don't plan on using the dishwasher other than when we entertain and in our experience sliding doors don't block that much noise anyway. shux, we are similarly trying to keep our island clear. We hadn't thought of squaring it out but I don't think that would suit our space in anyway. Interesting that you mention the DW will be at a right angle to the sink... We had planned on having the DW next to the double sink which would sit underneath the AS0612 window, for ease of rinsing & stacking etc but in the event there is not enough space along that edge, good to know that we could move it so that the DW sits at a right angle to the sink, like yours. We don't have updated drawings yet but will share them once received. Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 7Jun 28, 2021 8:52 pm Hi everyone We've received the kitchen and butlers pantry drawings - see below. The entry to the BP is to the left of the Fridge. Just seeking some advice re: placement of the bin drawer. Currently it is in the BP, but I'm conscious that in its current position it would open out into the same space that would be occupied by a person using the double sink in the BP (for example, when they are washing dishes). This seems like it might be poor placement, so we have asked around and sought some second opinions. So far, we have received the below suggestions: 1. moving bin drawer from BP cabinet 4 to BP cabinet 10 (down 1 spot away from the sink-side) 2. moving bin drawer from BP cabinet 4 to Kitchen cabinet 19 (so it is adjacent-ish to the dishwasher). I say adjacent-ish because there is still square set framing that divides the Kitchen and BP 3. moving bin drawer, DW and double sink such that the new positions are bin drawer (BP cabinet 10), double sink (BP cabinet 9), DW (BP cabinet 7). We are open to considering other suggestions and advice. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 8Jun 28, 2021 9:31 pm brampton Hi everyone My wife and I are about to embark on a knock-down rebuild in Western Sydney. We are having a bit of trouble with locking down our kitchen & butler pantry lay-out (see below latest drawing with the butler largely empty reflecting the TBC status). We are thinking of moving the fridge cavity to the wall adjoining the Butler (and increasing the cavity to 1000W x 800D to accommodate a larger french-door fridge), facing the fridge out towards the island bench. This would obviously reduce the walking space in the butler (where we had envisaged having a L shaped 600mm deep bench, where we would have our double sink and dishwasher and where our airfryer, toaster etc would live). I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how best to achieve the above (if it can even be achieved at all!). The Butler adjoins a lounge room with dimensions 4070 (horizontal on the drawing below) x 3450 (vertical on the drawing below). We would prefer not to eat into the lounge space, but are willing to consider it. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ always depends on how you want to use the whole kitchen and pantry.. if you have the fridge projecting into the pantry do you need/want a wall to enclose the back so the fridge isn't exposed and if you expect to have a crowd of family and friends helping themselves to the fridge i would have the fridge at the other end of he kitchen with a small drinks fridge on the island and less traffic near the stove and for keen coffee and tea people where will you keep your kettle (and toaster) and if you expect to do so much work in the pantry how will you use all that island space? Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 9Jun 30, 2021 3:33 pm Hi Oklouse Thanks for your advice. To answer your questions: The fridge is projecting (facing) the island. The back of the fridge will be facing the pantry. The back of the fridge is enclosed, so from the pantry there will only be a wall opposite the benchtop. We couldn't locate the fridge at the other end of the island because there are sliding doors out to the alfresco there. I've never heard of a small drinks fridge on the island, but that sounds like an interesting idea. Kettle will most likely be in the kitchen, next to the single sink. Island will be used for food prep, casual dining (when we can't be bothered to set up the dining table) and kids doing homework. Did you have any specific thoughts on the bin drawer placement? How are things set up in your kitchen, if you don't mind me asking. Always interested to hear about/see other people's kitchen layouts Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 10Jun 30, 2021 3:58 pm get the bigger sink in the main kitchen area and the smaller one in the pantry. Youll be using the main part of the kitchen more and its near your dishwasher. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 11Jun 30, 2021 4:53 pm Thanks Noname. We will certainly consider making the main kitchen sink a double sink. Just to confirm though, the DW is currently in the Pantry (not the main Kitchen). Would you then suggest keeping both areas with a double sink? Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 12Jun 30, 2021 5:11 pm brampton Thanks Noname. We will certainly consider making the main kitchen sink a double sink. Just to confirm though, the DW is currently in the Pantry (not the main Kitchen). Would you then suggest keeping both areas with a double sink? Oh I thought I saw a dw on the island with a single sink. Double near the DW for sure. Other is personal preference then I guess. We've got two dishwashers side by side and a double sink ourselves lol Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 13Jun 30, 2021 6:08 pm brampton I think the way the bin and DW is set up in your drawing will work fine. There is space to stand Infront of the sink and scrape plates into an open bin and then stack the dishwasher. I'd imagine that the dishes will end up getting put in the sink and benchtop above the DW so it's all at hand. Where the DW is situated will make walking into the BP a bit tight when it's open but realistically you should be fine. The one thing I'd definitely do is swap out the 2 door cabinets on the island for three drawer cabinets. Set the top 2 drawers at around 220 mm and then the lower drawer is usually around 300. You will get so much more use out of the storage space. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 14Jun 30, 2021 7:53 pm brampton Hi Oklouse Thanks for your advice. To answer your questions: The fridge is projecting (facing) the island. The back of the fridge will be facing the pantry. The back of the fridge is enclosed, so from the pantry there will only be a wall opposite the benchtop. We couldn't locate the fridge at the other end of the island because there are sliding doors out to the alfresco there. I've never heard of a small drinks fridge on the island, but that sounds like an interesting idea. Kettle will most likely be in the kitchen, next to the single sink. Island will be used for food prep, casual dining (when we can't be bothered to set up the dining table) and kids doing homework. Did you have any specific thoughts on the bin drawer placement? How are things set up in your kitchen, if you don't mind me asking. Always interested to hear about/see other people's kitchen layouts attached suggestions for pantry with the big fridge space, dw and double sinks with cabinet doors under the sink across the corner and then wide drawers and all other pantry storage is open shelves unless you prefer the wall cabinets visible from the kitchen to have doors and you will see that instead of an extra long pantry i've placed teh fridge more towards the kitchen work space and added a base and wall cabinets on the outside of the pantry for much easier access and ideal location for dinnerware, coffee or wine servery Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ and happy to share details about my kitchen layout ...having designed and built numerous kitchens my current kitchen, built as a renovation to an older home, has a smaller storage only pantry with all the cooking and preparation being done in the main kitchen, waste disposal consists of twin plastic bins that stand on the floor under a wide drawer in a purpose built opening on the out of sight side of the island...works perfectly and minimal cost.. .all my cabinets and drawers were designed and built to suit the specific items to be stored and the way we like to cook eg distance between counters is 1500 so two can work side by side, dishwasher is to the right of the double sink with double drainers as we use the sink drainers as prep area, everyday dinnerware and cutlery is stored within arms reach of the dishwasher and "good" dinnerware and cutlery is stored in cabinets wrapped around the outside of the pantry, inside of the pantry has mostly 150mm deep shelves ideal for most cans, packets and bottles and odd shaped packets of rice, pasta and flour etc is stored in drawers ..we have splashback storage behind sliding glass doors with wide shallow shelves sized for spices, herbs, oils, sauces and vinegars and wall cabinets have extra shelves (ie floor and then two shelves ideal for plates and serving dishes, there's a stacked wall oven and microwave with saucepan drawer at the bottom and cabinets at the top with vertical dividers to stand trays and drying racks side by side instead on top of each other ...my advice is always to think about how you like to work, what you need to store and design the space to suit yourselves...luckily you have plenty of space and that makes it so much easier to plan although one problem with too much space is i tend to accumulate more things than needed Re: Seeking help with kitchen/butler pantry floorplan 15Jul 05, 2021 8:51 pm Thanks Noname, Chippy and OkLouise for your replies. Chippy, thanks for the reassurance re: the bin opening. We will certainly consider changing the cabinets on the island to drawers - thanks for the suggestion. OkLouise, thanks for the detailed drawing. Do you think it makes sense to have a built-in bin drawer to the right hand side of where the the double sink is? We were thinking of also having a small bin inside a cabinet (like you have) in the main kitchen. The wall cabinets on the outside of the pantry are also a great idea, but we are happy to keep the current layout there. Thanks also for sharing details of your kitchen - it all sounds very well thought out and I appreciate all the detail... it has certainly given me some ideas for our kitchen Hi, We're building a double-storey in Perth and I'm undecided with the kitchen sink situation. I'm set on having the main sink with dishwasher in the scullery - and… 0 20916 Hi everyone! 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