Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 7Dec 23, 2021 1:21 pm strannik Fore2 I just had a stroke reading this! Sounds like a typical horror story from a volume builder. Reading all of them almost scared us away from building our first home, and made us realise that picking a right builder is probably the most important decision we'll have to make during the whole process. i think they meant it's a poorly formatted wall of text. hard to read > stroke. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 8Mar 29, 2022 1:24 pm Intripidlol Hi guys, first time building, and looking for some clarification between the 'types' of builders there are. Finding it really confusing with terminology from companies I've spoken too, and can't really find an answer on google. I feel like everybody is trying to sell me their service without giving me real information. Could anybody please clarify the following: (I'm from South Australian so using SA building companies because that's all I know) 1. Project/Volume builder: the most common type of builder, display homes everywhere. Website with many different floorplans. The most affordable, with the poorest quality of construction. Markets themselves as 'customizable', but really you can only select one of their template floorplans with very superficial customization. Unable to design a truly unique floor plan for you? Only really able to build on flat square/rectangle blocks. What most people build with? Been quoted from $900-1500 per sqm. So companies like: - Weeks (https://weeks.com.au/) - Rivergum (https://rivergumhomes.com.au/) - Metricon (https://www.metricon.com.au/) - I think they market themselves as a more premium volume builder? But even their signature line is all templates? 2. Custom builder: a builder that builds 'custom' to your idea/floor plan. Has no templates? Able to customise your floorplan into a build. Has an inhouse designer/architect. Able to build on a variety of blocks. Usually start around $2000 per sqm. So companies like: - Scott Salisbury (https://www.scottsalisburyhomes.com.au/) - Latitude 37 (https://www.l37.com.au/) - Samuel James (https://www.samueljames.com.au/) (these two I figured, but the rest is confusing): 3. Spec Builder: what exactly are they, how do they market themselves, and how do they differ from project and custom builders? 4. Premium Builder: are these basically custom builders? 5. 'Bespoke/Boutique' Builder: found some that do not do -any- design work at all, but only work off architectural plans. Are these the highest 'tier' of builder with the best quality, or is it all just marketing? How do they compare to 'custom' builders - can custom builders do similar quality? Been quoted at least $4000 per sqm. For example: - Ikon Projects (http://www.ikonprojects.com.au/) 5a. If 'bespoke/boutique' builders are better, what's the deal with most of the HIA/MBA awards going to custom builders? 6. Architects - what is the benefit of going to an independent architect (and tendering to a 'bespoke/boutique' builder) vs. going to a 'custom builder' that has an inhouse architect (not designer). I have been told that 'custom builders' recycle their floorplans and aren't truly custom, and their architects design to that builders 'style' - and that they're not truly 'custom', and just a pimped out volume builder with better decorations. Is that true? 7. It seems people talk about custom builders being better than volume builders, but within the custom builder category, is there a big difference between different custom builders (especially ones that have awards)? 8. Home lottery homes - typically these homes are lovely, are these usually built by custom builders or achitecturally designed? I've been told display homes are generally built with better trades to the best quality, and not really representative of a builders typical work. Well today I went to a display home of an award winning custom builder (starts at $2500 per sqm) and I was shocked to see this kind of quality: https://imgur.com/a/CM6DCtg Is this the best I should expect/representative of $2500+ per sqm work, or am I just too anal/OCD and have unrealistic expectations of perfection? Thanks for all your help! Would you care to share who you ended up going with? Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 9Mar 29, 2022 1:46 pm kungpo747 Who did you end up picking. We share your concerns. peterpeter Intripidlol Hi guys, first time building, and looking for some clarification between the 'types' of builders there are. Finding it really confusing with terminology from companies I've spoken too, and can't really find an answer on google. I feel like everybody is trying to sell me their service without giving me real information. Could anybody please clarify the following: (I'm from South Australian so using SA building companies because that's all I know) 1. Project/Volume builder: the most common type of builder, display homes everywhere. Website with many different floorplans. The most affordable, with the poorest quality of construction. Markets themselves as 'customizable', but really you can only select one of their template floorplans with very superficial customization. Unable to design a truly unique floor plan for you? Only really able to build on flat square/rectangle blocks. What most people build with? Been quoted from $900-1500 per sqm. So companies like: - Weeks (https://weeks.com.au/) - Rivergum (https://rivergumhomes.com.au/) - Metricon (https://www.metricon.com.au/) - I think they market themselves as a more premium volume builder? But even their signature line is all templates? 2. Custom builder: a builder that builds 'custom' to your idea/floor plan. Has no templates? Able to customise your floorplan into a build. Has an inhouse designer/architect. Able to build on a variety of blocks. Usually start around $2000 per sqm. So companies like: - Scott Salisbury (https://www.scottsalisburyhomes.com.au/) - Latitude 37 (https://www.l37.com.au/) - Samuel James (https://www.samueljames.com.au/) (these two I figured, but the rest is confusing): 3. Spec Builder: what exactly are they, how do they market themselves, and how do they differ from project and custom builders? 4. Premium Builder: are these basically custom builders? 5. 'Bespoke/Boutique' Builder: found some that do not do -any- design work at all, but only work off architectural plans. Are these the highest 'tier' of builder with the best quality, or is it all just marketing? How do they compare to 'custom' builders - can custom builders do similar quality? Been quoted at least $4000 per sqm. For example: - Ikon Projects (http://www.ikonprojects.com.au/) 5a. If 'bespoke/boutique' builders are better, what's the deal with most of the HIA/MBA awards going to custom builders? 6. Architects - what is the benefit of going to an independent architect (and tendering to a 'bespoke/boutique' builder) vs. going to a 'custom builder' that has an inhouse architect (not designer). I have been told that 'custom builders' recycle their floorplans and aren't truly custom, and their architects design to that builders 'style' - and that they're not truly 'custom', and just a pimped out volume builder with better decorations. Is that true? 7. It seems people talk about custom builders being better than volume builders, but within the custom builder category, is there a big difference between different custom builders (especially ones that have awards)? 8. Home lottery homes - typically these homes are lovely, are these usually built by custom builders or achitecturally designed? I've been told display homes are generally built with better trades to the best quality, and not really representative of a builders typical work. Well today I went to a display home of an award winning custom builder (starts at $2500 per sqm) and I was shocked to see this kind of quality: https://imgur.com/a/CM6DCtg Is this the best I should expect/representative of $2500+ per sqm work, or am I just too anal/OCD and have unrealistic expectations of perfection? Thanks for all your help! Would you care to share who you ended up going with? Hi guys, We ended up going with an independent architect. Architect works closely with a number of builders and whilst we will tender with all of them, we have one in mind that we would like to work with. Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 10Mar 29, 2022 1:54 pm Thanks @Intripidlol Do you have an idea of the price / m2 estimate this is going to cost you? (and what included / excluded) Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 11Mar 29, 2022 2:03 pm architect is costing ~60k still in design stage budgeting 1m for construction house ~300 - 330 sqm est. $3333 - 3030 per sqm - this was completely within reasonable for all the inclusions we wanted pre-pandemic. I'm unsure given recent exorbitant inflation if we are able to construct what we wanted pre-pandemic. this includes architect and complete construction (foundation to landscaping and handover). - very close to passivehaus standard - triple glazed throughout - smart home - lift - solar panels etc. - no pool this excludes surveying fees, council fees, arborist fees etc. hope this helps Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 12Mar 29, 2022 2:05 pm Thanks @Intripidlol, appreciate the details Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 13Mar 30, 2022 12:04 pm Intripidlol architect is costing ~60k still in design stage budgeting 1m for construction house ~300 - 330 sqm est. $3333 - 3030 per sqm - this was completely within reasonable for all the inclusions we wanted pre-pandemic. I'm unsure given recent exorbitant inflation if we are able to construct what we wanted pre-pandemic. this includes architect and complete construction (foundation to landscaping and handover). - very close to passivehaus standard - triple glazed throughout - smart home - lift - solar panels etc. - no pool this excludes surveying fees, council fees, arborist fees etc. hope this helps intripidlol Interesting. We're attempting a similar thing (similar size, close to passivhaus standard, ~340sqm). We found that 1m was not enough for this - at least 20% to 30% more required. We're in Sydney though, where I imagine everything is more expensive. Good luck! I'd be curious to see how your build goes Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 14Mar 30, 2022 12:28 pm ren_ho Intripidlol architect is costing ~60k still in design stage budgeting 1m for construction house ~300 - 330 sqm est. $3333 - 3030 per sqm - this was completely within reasonable for all the inclusions we wanted pre-pandemic. I'm unsure given recent exorbitant inflation if we are able to construct what we wanted pre-pandemic. this includes architect and complete construction (foundation to landscaping and handover). - very close to passivehaus standard - triple glazed throughout - smart home - lift - solar panels etc. - no pool this excludes surveying fees, council fees, arborist fees etc. hope this helps intripidlol Interesting. We're attempting a similar thing (similar size, close to passivhaus standard, ~340sqm). We found that 1m was not enough for this - at least 20% to 30% more required. We're in Sydney though, where I imagine everything is more expensive. Good luck! I'd be curious to see how your build goes Thanks for your insight, that leaves me curious to ask a couple of questions? Completely understandable that building in Sydney is more expensive, used to live there so I get it Is that 20 to 30% more post pandemic? Because our budget was for pre pandemic prices... with the increase I'm not even sure if our budget can facilitate our build anymore. What kind of inclusions/materials are you guys going for? We found that there are typically luxury materials in this kind of budget that would eat up budgets such as full marble etc. Which we actually don't like.. most of the materials we are going for in the build are more robust, and not 'luxury' Also no appliances are included in our build, supplying them ourselves out of building contract Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 16Mar 30, 2022 1:01 pm Intripidlol ren_ho Intripidlol architect is costing ~60k still in design stage budgeting 1m for construction house ~300 - 330 sqm est. $3333 - 3030 per sqm - this was completely within reasonable for all the inclusions we wanted pre-pandemic. I'm unsure given recent exorbitant inflation if we are able to construct what we wanted pre-pandemic. this includes architect and complete construction (foundation to landscaping and handover). - very close to passivehaus standard - triple glazed throughout - smart home - lift - solar panels etc. - no pool this excludes surveying fees, council fees, arborist fees etc. hope this helps intripidlol Interesting. We're attempting a similar thing (similar size, close to passivhaus standard, ~340sqm). We found that 1m was not enough for this - at least 20% to 30% more required. We're in Sydney though, where I imagine everything is more expensive. Good luck! I'd be curious to see how your build goes Thanks for your insight, that leaves me curious to ask a couple of questions? Completely understandable that building in Sydney is more expensive, used to live there so I get it Is that 20 to 30% more post pandemic? Because our budget was for pre pandemic prices... with the increase I'm not even sure if our budget can facilitate our build anymore. What kind of inclusions/materials are you guys going for? We found that there are typically luxury materials in this kind of budget that would eat up budgets such as full marble etc. Which we actually don't like.. most of the materials we are going for in the build are more robust, and not 'luxury' Also no appliances are included in our build, supplying them ourselves out of building contract Post pandemic. We're close to starting our build, but haven't executed yet. The pricing was done about a month ago. Inclusions aren't crazy - nothing really extravagant. Standard appliances, stone countertops, standard materials (hebel veneer). The big unusual items are triple glazing, an HRV system, and guarantees of air tightness. Its a double storey building. I'd guess that post pandemic you'll need to increase that budget - if we had built this 2-3 years ago we'd be paying probably 30% less. Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 17Mar 30, 2022 1:03 pm Intripidlol Is that 20 to 30% more post pandemic? Because our budget was for pre pandemic prices... with the increase I'm not even sure if our budget can facilitate our build anymore. whoops! if you're still working on pricing from 2 years ago, you're in for a bit of a shock. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 18Mar 30, 2022 1:03 pm Some inputs from my experience: 1) 90%+ of architects are useless overpriced buggers, you better go with a good building designer and learn about good passive solar designs yourself, so you can recommend and choose best orientation and positions for your rooms; 2) if your triple glazed windows come from Europe, expect 6 months lead times and $2k per sqm (for what it was less than $1.5k in 2019); 3) do not just invest into insulation materials (which are still relatively cheap), invest into quality insulation installation, infrared camera and blowout testing. Most of the insulation issues arise from the bad installations, not from the quality of material (which will still be deteriorating over time); 4) consider thermal mass to the important areas, so go either partially RBV/full brick or invest into phase change materials. I personally decided to go with frameless ICF-based system for my build, but not so many builders around who can build with it. 5) consider low power small duct aircon system (e.g. Airsmart), it is much more energy effective and if you build your house right, you won't be using it often; 6) performance of solar panels will deteriorate significantly once they got covered with dust and debris (which may happen within few months depending on your area). Consider investing into lithium batteries as your back up option. 7) strongly consider slab insulation. In fact, if you follow Swedish Insulated slab paradigm, you can save a lot of money on earthworks and concrete as well as potential piling but you would have to spend them on a quality XPS insulation under your slab. This is a very shallow floating slab (100-200 mm footings only), so it doesn't require any piles or deep footings even on H2 soils. But good luck in finding decent structural engineers who are familiar with the concept and will approve. Also, to some recent local vendors charge for XPS insulation as wounded bulls, although it is really not supposed to cost more than $15 for 100 mm thick sheets; 8 ) consider wireless systems for your smart home. They are quite reliable those days, X times cheaper and there was a cool vendor on this forum, they make their own custom switches. Also, keep in mind that you would rarely want all your switches and outlets to be smart, usually only in living areas, master bedroom and master ensuite will be more than enough. Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 19Mar 30, 2022 10:48 pm ren_ho Intripidlol ren_ho intripidlol Interesting. We're attempting a similar thing (similar size, close to passivhaus standard, ~340sqm). We found that 1m was not enough for this - at least 20% to 30% more required. We're in Sydney though, where I imagine everything is more expensive. Good luck! I'd be curious to see how your build goes Thanks for your insight, that leaves me curious to ask a couple of questions? Completely understandable that building in Sydney is more expensive, used to live there so I get it Is that 20 to 30% more post pandemic? Because our budget was for pre pandemic prices... with the increase I'm not even sure if our budget can facilitate our build anymore. What kind of inclusions/materials are you guys going for? We found that there are typically luxury materials in this kind of budget that would eat up budgets such as full marble etc. Which we actually don't like.. most of the materials we are going for in the build are more robust, and not 'luxury' Also no appliances are included in our build, supplying them ourselves out of building contract Post pandemic. We're close to starting our build, but haven't executed yet. The pricing was done about a month ago. Inclusions aren't crazy - nothing really extravagant. Standard appliances, stone countertops, standard materials (hebel veneer). The big unusual items are triple glazing, an HRV system, and guarantees of air tightness. Its a double storey building. I'd guess that post pandemic you'll need to increase that budget - if we had built this 2-3 years ago we'd be paying probably 30% less. Yeah when I first started approaching this build I had budgeted 1m for construction and it was completely within reason, however with pandemic prices inflating once we were in the middle of design it's pain a huge pain in the behind We haven't had our final quote yet Re: Different types/levels/tiers of building companies 20Mar 30, 2022 10:51 pm alexp79 Some inputs from my experience: 1) 90%+ of architects are useless overpriced buggers, you better go with a good building designer and learn about good passive solar designs yourself, so you can recommend and choose best orientation and positions for your rooms; 2) if your triple glazed windows come from Europe, expect 6 months lead times and $2k per sqm (for what it was less than $1.5k in 2019); 3) do not just invest into insulation materials (which are still relatively cheap), invest into quality insulation installation, infrared camera and blowout testing. Most of the insulation issues arise from the bad installations, not from the quality of material (which will still be deteriorating over time); 4) consider thermal mass to the important areas, so go either partially RBV/full brick or invest into phase change materials. I personally decided to go with frameless ICF-based system for my build, but not so many builders around who can build with it. 5) consider low power small duct aircon system (e.g. Airsmart), it is much more energy effective and if you build your house right, you won't be using it often; 6) performance of solar panels will deteriorate significantly once they got covered with dust and debris (which may happen within few months depending on your area). Consider investing into lithium batteries as your back up option. 7) strongly consider slab insulation. In fact, if you follow Swedish Insulated slab paradigm, you can save a lot of money on earthworks and concrete as well as potential piling but you would have to spend them on a quality XPS insulation under your slab. This is a very shallow floating slab (100-200 mm footings only), so it doesn't require any piles or deep footings even on H2 soils. But good luck in finding decent structural engineers who are familiar with the concept and will approve. Also, to some recent local vendors charge for XPS insulation as wounded bulls, although it is really not supposed to cost more than $15 for 100 mm thick sheets; 8 ) consider wireless systems for your smart home. They are quite reliable those days, X times cheaper and there was a cool vendor on this forum, they make their own custom switches. Also, keep in mind that you would rarely want all your switches and outlets to be smart, usually only in living areas, master bedroom and master ensuite will be more than enough. Don't think you can approach certified passivehaus without an architect, at least in Adelaide anyway. Also think it's a bit disingenuous to call 90% of architects useless, most of the very high end builders I spoke to worked regularly with certain architects. Blower testing and thermal imaging is pretty much a standard part of the process with passivehaus. Thermal mass and solar orientation is not as significant (although still warranted esp. Solar for light orientation) in a building built to passivehaus Hi, have purchased a house with 2 single garage doors. The Centre pillar one side sits proud to the other. Can I change 2 doors into one. Please see picture. 0 6347 yep you need a joint, foam is easiest, will look fine once rendered with a joint. 2 5234 |