Architect vs Custom Home Builder

Hi all

I have a query about building with a high end 'custom home' builder with an inhouse architect/designer (definitely not a volume/project builder or dressed up one like Metricon) vs. going to an architect, and then a high end builder that only builds from external architect plans.

I'm still very new to this and trying to work out which route I should go with, and it's hard getting solid information from builders/architects themselves because it all feels like they're trying to sell me something. Has anybody had experience with one or the other, or both that can provide some advice on:

One one hand it seems quite handy and streamlined that I can go to a custom home builder and work with an inhouse architect to design a plan from conception that keeps in mind what the builder is capable of, as well as works within your budget. I've been to some of these builders display homes and they're beautiful inside, and the work and finishes look quite good. The custom builders I've looked at have all got awards from HIA and the MBA. The consultants from these companies I've spoken to all say that there's no significant benefit to working with an external architect and they can do the portfolios of these architects with no issue. Most custom builders have provided a rough figure of $2500+ per sqm.

On the other hand, I've spoken to some award winning architects and the construction companies they work with, and some of the things that they state is:
- a custom home builder is just a dressed up project/volume builder with a suit on
- most custom builders don't have inhouse architects, just designers they call architects - any good architect will be working with an architectural firm or their own firm. Furthermore designers, or maybe architects that work for these custom builders are only able to build a custom builders style or design, they don't have freedom
- their homes look lovely because anybody can throw in high end finishes like marble countertops etc.
- however their floor plans are basic and not very different from volume builders, there's no real creativity, they're 'copiers' and they chase pinterest/current trends
- architects and bespoke builders offer architectural features where 'the devil is in the detail' (no idea what that means), the simpler a building appears the more difficult it is because you can't hide flaws, cantilever construction that custom home builders won't be able to do etc.
- most architects have provided a rough figure of 10% of build @ $3000+ per sqm.

It's just getting all a bit confusing I feel like I've spoken to 30+ different consultants in the past few weeks and things are starting to blend in together, which is quite concerning as this will probably be the biggest financial decision I make in my life.

I've always thought that high end custom home builders were the highest tier, and now it seems like architects are telling me there's a higher tier still!

I guess the only thing I've really noticed is that a lot of architect portfolios I've looked at are using concrete walls with really minimalist style which I don't notice from many custom home builders.

I was wondering if anybody can shine a light on whether either of these things from either party is true, whether there's a real significantly beneficial difference in engaging an architect vs. using a high end custom builder (especially when the cost appears to be much higher), or any other general information?

Thanks for your time!

The biggest piece of advice i can give you is make sure you ‘own the plans’, soil and contour survey.
We have just built a custom home, we first approached a builder who recommended a building designer, who worked independently from the builder, however we felt that he didn’t understand what we wanted and instead designed a more cookie cutter acreage style home (his specialty). We walked away after paying $6000 with plans we owned but didn’t like. WE also paid for a survey but unfortunately it was a basic survey and not usable on our large block (but obviously gave them basic levels for the design)
Secondly we went to another builder, they had an in-house building designer, paid $3000 for a plan, survey and soil test, we had in writing that we owned the design and that they would provide both the soil and survey in DWG, we ultimately walked away after the tender came back $550k over budget (even though they advised all along we were within budget).
Third and finally we found a very small builder, by this stage we knew what we wanted (a mixture of the previous two plans), went to a draftsmen and he drew up what i wanted, again we owned the plan, we sent the plans to tender and picked our builder.
We paid for full construction drawings, basix, bush fire report, septic reports and full DA, the we signed with the builder, at this take we paid approx $40k in reports, drawings and DA approval.
WE originally looked at full architect but with a quote of 10% of build cost, it just seemed to much for us.
We worked on $2000-2500sqm, but i suspect architect designed homes would be closer to $3-5000sqm.

Thanks for your reply gogo65.
What are the implications if we don't own our own plans? I spoke to a one custom home builder who has built some beautiful homes, lots of great reviews, builds about 10 houses a year, and said to me the initial process up to pricing is a few hundred dollars, however upon pricing etc. it goes up to a few thousand and the build proceeds. We could walk away before the pricing etc. and it wouldn't cost us much yet we would have had initial designs and layout drawn out, initial 3D walkthrough etc. However, with them we would not own the plans and they would. This particular builder is not on my shortlist regardless as they have said they definitely cannot do a 7+ star natHERs house.

I really find it hard to accept you've walked around after paying $9000 in fees... did any of those plans etc. help with the final build? I guess I feel like I -really- want to get it right the first time because I would definitely feel annoyed regardless of sunk cost fallacy if I paid 6k and had to walk away...

My budget is quite flexible from 2.5k-4.0k per sqm... but I really don't want to get any higher than I have to if compromises start happening. i.e. the 4.0k I'm willing to go up to for the 'perfect' no compromise dreamhome

The problem not owning your own plan, is you put blood sweat and tears into it, to make it yours, then you cant take it anywhere else for a quote.
If you get the perfect plan and then they own it, you have to start again.
In regards to our build,yep it was a hard pill to swallow but ultimately over the bigger picture we ended up with our beautiful home and were able to ensure it came in under budget, and designed by me, to be perfect for us.

Where are you building?

Hey gogo65! We're building in Adelaide metro (Rostrevor)

I have a general idea for a floor plan that I've drawn out, and also a facade, and materials
But the thing is I'm a very uncreative person (healthcare professional) - very functional and orthodox minded in everything I do (work, games, sports). For example I'm easy to read in games with my friends because I would always go for the most optimal play in terms of percentages/calculations without thinking of the human element of how my friends know that I will go for the optimal play, so perhaps it's better to go for the suboptimal play.

The reason why I'm saying this because I think my floor plan is designed based off what I think my needs are, based off looking at a million floor plans online and walking through display homes. I think I like it - but I'm not a creative architect. I also don't know a whole lot about houses. Thus I would love for a professional to look at my site to maximise the site's potential to design me something that takes into account my needs and wants, and designs something aesthetically pleasing and maybe unique? I say unique because going through some of the new development areas really disgusts me, with every single house looking the same.

I'm not really sure whether it's best to go to an architect for this and risk blowing out my budget, or just stick with a reputable custom home builder. I'm not sure what little details the architect will be able to do for me, and I'm not sure if ignorance is bliss (if I don't know about the detail then it won't bother me.. until I do know? sort of thing). I mean it was only this week that I learnt cornices were an actual thing where the absence of one = $$$ (apparently because the walls have to be precise and it's easier to hide flaws with cornices).

Furthermore my site is pretty flat and rectangular, just got a significant tree on council land which I need to ensure footings don't damage the roots. Some have advised and architect is better utilized to maximize a challenging site such as massive slopes or super narrow to ensure maximum light capture. So I'm unsure if an architect would be wasted for a flat, easier site.

What I have mostly seen though, is these custom home builders have beautiful facades (that I love), but some of these architects have truly different designs that I haven't seen in any custom builder - the whole minimalist, concrete walls, cantilever look. For example:
https://wolfarchitects.com.au/portfolio ... 2C10%2C231

The other thing that I really want in my build is an energy efficient, passive house esque design (doesn't have to be passivehaus certified) that can provide a stable internal temperature. This puts another whole issue into the equation because not every builder or architect can do this.

I think I'm at a stage of analysis paralysis trying to make the most optimal decision, lol

Just to put it in perspective, I’m also a health professional and also not very creative.
Maybe due to my age and this being our 5th house and 4th build, I am able to look at a plan and know what works and doesn’t work (for us).
The examples by wolf architects are definitely beautiful but may end up pushing the budget (I would assume most of those are in the 3 million + range (if that’s in your budget then maybe go down that track, because you want to get it right).
Other option is a building designer, more qualifications than a draftsmen but not as expensive as an architect, may be able to give you the sparkle you want.

Our house is different, has some beautiful features, a different facade (for an acreage home), has been designed to take advantage of the northerly aspect and contours but isn’t over the top cost wise. I think there is definitely a balance between design, function and budget. This is the facade we built, I gave our draftsmen some pictures of homes I liked and he came up with this, it’s not cookie cutter but not cost prohibitive.

Hi All,

Am in the same journey and is debating to choose between a volume builder like [CLARENDON [Fan of their BOSTON 36 design] and WISDOM Homes [their AMBASSADOR 36 design] or some small custom builders [who are having their own designers] and are specifying that they will give better value in terms of quality than the volume builders. On the other hand there is option of going for an independent architect who will take care of designs, DA approvals, drawing construction plans etc.,] I wanted to design 36 Squares house with void, courtyard and make it high energy efficient. I got inspired by one article where one volume builder in Melbourne had slightly modified their construction methodology to achieve 7.5 star rating.https://renew.org.au/sanctuary-magazine/house-profiles/project-home-powerhouse/.

Am currently discussing with CLARENDON and WISDOM, whether they can slightly modify the above designs and make it more energy efficient, Am doubtful but checking. I assume if they can incorporate these changes, looks like I can rely upon their brands to build the house with no risks, but as per above comments, looks like the actual build will be done by sub contractors

Next option, is I spoke with few small custom builders and they got good reviews and they are open to incorporate these options and build, but there is this lingering doubt in my mind as their own draftsmen, designers design the plans, slightly doubtful about whether they do compromise on some internals like the construction strength, piering etc

Third and final option, which some people strongly advised me go for a completely independent architect and get the plans, da approvals, construction plans from them and armed with that do the shopping for builders, so in this way am assured that any custom builder that I choose have to follow the Constuction plan that the architect gives. At this stage I assume this would be the better option. Any suggestions on my thinking please. Also my budget is very limited, so I am planing to inform the architect that when they design, they need to keep the typical cost of say CLARENDON or WISDOM's top range and design.

A typical CLARENDON and WISDOM home with their premium inclusions is coming roughly to 500K to 525K and am thinking to give this to the architect as the guidelines and design and then use any good custom designer to build. However, one small doubt, typically any custom builder includes in their cost estimate the cost of design, approvals etc., am curious if I approach them with my architect plans, do they really give any discount, as they need not incur these costs?

I got quotes from different architects and liked so far one specific architect's quote, Wanted to seek your views on this;

This architect quoted;

Design - $7400
3D Visualisation of front elevation - $950
Landscape Design $2370
Survey - $980
BASIX Certificate - $680
Hydraulic Engineering - $1170
Development Application Fees - $3700
Construction Certificate Fees - $3700
Total $20950 Plus GST

Your honest feedback and suggestions would be helpful to me.

As referred above my budget is strictly limited as quoted above. I do not want to go to custom builders who charge say $2000 and above. I want to go with custom builders who are close to project builders but with slightly higher cost.
Thx

Here's the problem as I see it
Architects and builders conveniently leave out the engineering upfront, once you have paid a deposit and you're locked in... then be prepared for the $ticker $hock price increases . ie geotech, footings, upgrade structurals, basic engineering costs , material compliances checks, alternate solutions certification, etc.
OT The 3D AEC Bim process includes engineering, Data and proofs, etc...
LOL, but all you are given/or offered is 3D visualisation of the front Elevation $950? go back and ask for 3D Engineering visualisation and data to be included and be prepared for the unknow/additional costs.
Cheers
Chris

Yes their quote for 3D visualisation is purely for front elevation only. Also apologies not understood fully your sentence Architects and builders conveniently leave out the engineering upfront, once you have paid a deposit and you're locked in... then be prepared for the $ticker $hock price increases . ie geotech, footings, upgrade structurals, basic engineering costs , material compliances checks, alternate solutions certification, etc." Whether when the architect gives me the construction plan, does it not cover these? Once I take these to any custom builder, they should give a quote to me right. I am going to ask them to give a fixed quote based on the construction plans, if yes are there still chances of price increase? am curious. Thx

Architects can't certify construction/engineering details.. they should tell you that?

They will quote you roughly on what they have minus the engineering... you haven't paid for any structural?

It's not fixed until all the drawings and contract documentation is provided

How do they fix unforeseen items/problems... they are estimates at best, money grabbing opportunities at worse.
Clients always pay for increases/variations ..read and understand the process & contract
Goodluck

Sorry Venkata, but your budget is unrealistic for a custom build that is also energy efficient. Stick with a project home, try and get a block that has good orientation and then pick a design that makes use of the orientation.

Hi gogo65,

Thanks for the reply, but still am curious how the particular customer in Melbourne could able to achieve a high energy efficient house of 7.5 star at 1600 per SQM.



https://renew.org.au/sanctuary-magazine/house-profiles/project-home-powerhouse/

I know they convinced a volume builder and somehow achieved this, While I continue this with CLARENDON and WISDOM, not yet raised energy efficiency stuff with them though, I think somehow I can find a small entry level custom builder who takes;

a. the architect plans that I give
b. uses the same grade of inclusions that a typical volume builder uses
c. adds his/her builder's margin and so I should be in a position to achieve under $2000 rate

Well, am not sure, but am trying to find answers, before I resign to the fact that only for my budget I need to go to cookie house builds by volume builders.
https://renew.org.au/sanctuary-magazine/house-profiles/project-home-powerhouse/

Hi Venkata

I have been reading this thread wondering whether or not I should add my 2 cents. I couldn't help myself Gogo has been spot on with his comments.

It's a really interesting article and reading between the lines I am wondering how long ago did they actually build this house. The reason I ask is that I know you could build a home in Victoria for the $1600/sqm mark around 4-5 years ago. Completely impossible now given the massive price increases in building materials.

The other thing that stands out is the Nathers process as I have been going through the Nathers process for years and I actually achieved the first 5 star Nathers rating for an office park many years ago.

But a lot of the things you need to do are complete rubbish from a thermal perspective such as recycled materials etc. In a house if you want thermal efficiency without selling a kidney you mainly need to focus on keeping the dwelling as airtight as possible. Forget all the rubbish about reverse brick veneer, it's all theoretical rubbish and not practical in the real world. These latest BASIX models were developed by a weekend engineer who lives on a yacht at Palm Beach who seems to think that concrete floors are warmer to walk on than carpet floors on a cold winter's morning. We all know from common sense that that isn't true.

We have actually developed a really cost effective real world method of building energy efficient homes that maintain a 10 degree difference between internal and external temperatures. It really doesn't add much to the build costs but there is no way you could do this for anywhere near $1,600/sqm.

I don't even think Clarendon or Wisdom could build a basic home for that. Their advertised prices for a 340sqm home are close to that but when you add site costs and some basic upgrades you are going to be closer to $700,000. There is a great thread I think called Boston 36 where a gentlemen gives the full breakdown of his build with clarendon that started in the $500's and finished in at $732,000.

Anyway, I hope you manage to find a solution to your dilemma.

Have a great weeked

Simeon

Hi Venkata

I have been reading this thread wondering whether or not I should add my 2 cents. I couldn't help myself Gogo has been spot on with his comments.

It's a really interesting article and reading between the lines I am wondering how long ago did they actually build this house. The reason I ask is that I know you could build a home in Victoria for the $1600/sqm mark around 4-5 years ago. Completely impossible now given the massive price increases in building materials.

The other thing that stands out is the Nathers process as I have been going through the Nathers process for years and I actually achieved the first 5 star Nathers rating for an office park many years ago.

But a lot of the things you need to do are complete rubbish from a thermal perspective such as recycled materials etc. In a house if you want thermal efficiency without selling a kidney you mainly need to focus on keeping the dwelling as airtight as possible. Forget all the rubbish about reverse brick veneer, it's all theoretical rubbish and not practical in the real world. These latest BASIX models were developed by a weekend engineer who lives on a yacht at Palm Beach who seems to think that concrete floors are warmer to walk on than carpet floors on a cold winter's morning. We all know from common sense that that isn't true.

We have actually developed a really cost effective real world method of building energy efficient homes that maintain a 10 degree difference between internal and external temperatures. It really doesn't add much to the build costs but there is no way you could do this for anywhere near $1,600/sqm.

I don't even think Clarendon or Wisdom could build a basic home for that. Their advertised prices for a 340sqm home are close to that but when you add site costs and some basic upgrades you are going to be closer to $700,000. There is a great thread I think called Boston 36 where a gentlemen gives the full breakdown of his build with clarendon that started in the $500's and finished in at $732,000.

Anyway, I hope you manage to find a solution to your dilemma.

Have a great weeked

Simeon

Hi Simeon,

Very much appreciate your reply. Of course, am in very early part of the journey and hence your inputs clearly had brought me down to earth. Just if for the time being , I keep aside my desire to have energy efficient house aside [looks like this is definitely beyond my budget], Could you please share your thoughts on my initial dilemma of going with CLARENDON/WISDOM sort of builder vs customer builders with their own in house drawn designs or a completely outside architect and then engage custom bulilder. From costing perspective and from the other doubts on each and every option, could you please suggest which option is feasible.

I will also search and understand the other thread that you referred about a persons's actual journey on BOSTON 36 with CLARENDON.

Thx

Venkata

I wish I could put my actual thoughts/advice on here but I don't really want to get into a war with the project home builders so I will be polite:

1. Don't give up on your dream for an energy efficient home. Its achievable for a very small cost, Your builder just needs to know how to make your dwelling airtight, and off course you need to think about window sizes and placement and orientation during the design phase.

2. I would forget about the rate/sqm discussion and work out what your maximum budget is and the key things that are important to you, such as bedrooms, study, living areas kitchen, style of the home.

3. I would then go to either a small builder who does custom designs ( when I say custom I mean 100% custom, not just a modified version of their plans) and get them to design you a home that fits your budget. It may not be a 350sqm home, it may be a 275sqm home, but if they are clever at designing it you wont mind, it's all about efficient use of space.

4. The other alternative to point 4 would be to go to a good drafting company ( you don't want to pay more than$11-$12,000 for a whole approval including engineering) and get them to design to your budget and then tender your build out to 3 or 4 builders.

I'd be happy to pass on some building tips to either you or you builder ( assuming they would speak to me ) as to what they would need to do to get your home airtight without sending you broke. On this note having worked in the project home world, I guarantee that you will have a zero% chance of getting one of those companies to modify their process for you.

If you want to take this off line and chat in more detail just PM me.

Cheers

Simeon

Hi Simeon,

Thanks I will PM you for any further queries.

Thx

What exactly do people usually mean when they say 'custom home'?

Any home that's not one of the builder's standard plans, or those fancy designer homes?

For example we are starting to build another house to fix up all the mistakes from the previous one, and this time I spent about 3 months drawing up the floor plan that suits us (hopefully), before we even got to picking the builder. So it is sorta custom, but at the end of the day there is a finite number of layouts that you can fit on a small lot, so plenty of builders would have something conceptually similar.