Browse Forums Building A New House 1 May 08, 2021 8:14 am Hi, We built a new home 2 years ago. We used a PGH slurry brick named (Pewter). We paid top dollar for this product, it was a high catergory brick. We noticed the face of the bricks stained and pitted, mortar in certain areas around our home starting to stain as well, We started asking questions to our builder and they were very unhelpful which led to further suspicions, we then decided to have our mortar tested. The results show that the mix composition does not comply with the NCC or the AS3700 Australian Standards, Yet our builder is still resisting and basically saying that the durability passed, therefore they will be able to prove that the mortar would pass. Is there any Structural Engineer on here preferably from Melbourne that can advise what action would be appropriate in this situation please. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 2May 08, 2021 9:14 am How was it tested? You can get the mortar lab tested but you first need to check your contract to see if there is a Performance Solution that allows a weaker mortar mix to be used. Many builders insert such Performance Solutions now. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 3May 08, 2021 10:58 am What documentary proof has the builder provided that the mortar either meets AS3700 or is a performance solution? If a performance solution is used instead of a Deemed to Satisfy method the onus is on the builder to provide documentary evidence that their mortar meets the requirements of the National Construction Code (NCC). i.e. an expert report, test data etc. In this situation a dismissive response such as saying its "durability passed" is insufficient. Given you have an expert report saying the mortar is defective, formally ask the builder to provide appropriate written details as per the 'proof' requirements of the NCC. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 4May 08, 2021 11:01 am Kippers01 What documentary proof has the builder provided that the mortar either meets AS3700 or is a performance solution? If a performance solution is used instead of a Deemed to Satisfy method the onus is on the builder to provide documentary evidence that their mortar meets the requirements of the National Construction Code (NCC). i.e. an expert report, test data etc. In this situation a dismissive response such as saying its "durability passed" is insufficient. Given you have an expert report saying the mortar is defective, formally ask the builder to provide appropriate written details as per the 'proof' requirements of the NCC. Thank you, I'll try that and let you know what response we get. Cheers Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 5May 08, 2021 11:08 am SaveH2O How was it tested? You can get the mortar lab tested but you first need to check your contract to see if there is a Performance Solution that allows a weaker mortar mix to be used. Many builders insert such Performance Solutions now. It was tested in a lab by a repatable company who has provided us a VCAT Expert Evidence Report. From what I can read in the contract, it only states that Mortar will be considered to be acceptable if it passes the durability test in accordance with Appendix FA of AS3700. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 6May 08, 2021 11:17 am NCC Assessment methods: https://www.abcb.gov.au/-/media/Files/R ... ethods.pdf Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 7May 08, 2021 11:27 am Lou1 Yet our builder is still resisting and basically saying that the durability passed, therefore they will be able to prove that the mortar would pass. Is there any Structural Engineer on here preferably from Melbourne that can advise what action would be appropriate in this situation please. Durability is a function of Environmental factors and Time, By the time it starts impacting your build the structural warranty is long gone, generally leading up, during maintenance period they'll keep coming back with hashers chemical products or/& high pressure cleaners....then they stop . Unfortunately, you are left to fix the mess. Here's some free engineering repair advice, 1. Aggressively clean the bricks 2. Carefully grind out the mortar 3. Repoint the mortar joints it's now going to cost you hundred$/ m2 and rarely are builders forced to do it A simple inspection and test could have put the builder/ brickies on notice when they first started laying bricks . Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 8May 08, 2021 12:05 pm StructuralBIMGuy Lou1 Yet our builder is still resisting and basically saying that the durability passed, therefore they will be able to prove that the mortar would pass. Is there any Structural Engineer on here preferably from Melbourne that can advise what action would be appropriate in this situation please. Durability is a function of Environmental factors and Time, By the time it starts impacting your build the structural warranty is long gone, generally leading up, during maintenance period they'll keep coming back with hashers chemical products or/& high pressure cleaners....then they stop . Unfortunately, you are left to fix the mess. Here's some free engineering repair advice, 1. Aggressively clean the bricks 2. Carefully grind out the mortar 3. Repoint the mortar joints it's now going to cost you hundred$/ m2 and rarely are builders forced to do it A simple inspection and test could have put the builder/ brickies on notice when they first started laying bricks . We put our trust in our builder and the Surveyor. We assumed that the Surveyor would at least act in our best interest, I doubt this has happened in our case unfortunately. The bricks got cleaned aggressively with strong pressure and chemicals, hence why we have a fair amount of pockmarks and stains on the brickface. I should add that they cleaned our bricks twice due to mortar repairs in the initial 3-6 months of handover. The expert reports recommends the following rectification work. (1) Surface Hardening is an acceptable industry practice. (I'm assuming something like Mortarmend type of product) (2) Rake and repoint (3) Render From what I read, Mortarmend is a type of adhesive and only a short term solution, it would also need to be reapplied after 7 years at our expense, Not sure if I'm comfortable with this option. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 9May 08, 2021 1:33 pm StructuralBIMGuy Durability is a function of Environmental factors and Time, By the time it starts impacting your build the structural warranty is long gone, generally leading up, during maintenance period they'll keep coming back with hashers chemical products or/& high pressure cleaners....then they stop . The builder having the contract clause stating "Mortar will be considered to be acceptable if it passes the durability test in accordance with Appendix FA of AS3700" appears to be a devious Get Out Of Jail Free card to me. Do you have an opinion? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 10May 08, 2021 1:36 pm Kippers01 NCC Assessment methods: https://www.abcb.gov.au/-/media/Files/R ... ethods.pdf Thank you Kippers01 Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 11May 08, 2021 1:37 pm Lou1 We put our trust in our builder and the Surveyor. Did you appoint the building surveyor or did the builder? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 12May 08, 2021 1:51 pm SaveH2O StructuralBIMGuy Durability is a function of Environmental factors and Time, By the time it starts impacting your build the structural warranty is long gone, generally leading up, during maintenance period they'll keep coming back with hashers chemical products or/& high pressure cleaners....then they stop . The builder having the contract clause stating "Mortar will be considered to be acceptable if it passes the durability test in accordance with Appendix FA of AS3700" appears to be a devious Get Out Of Jail Free card to me. Do you have an opinion? The Contract Performance Solution re Masonry Mortar Mix States the below. * This Performance Solution relates to allow the nominal mortar mix ratio used in the construction of masonry walls to be 1 part cement, 1 part lime and 10 parts sand. The Lab results show 1 part cement, 0.8 Lime and 9.3 sand. Not sure if there get out of jail card will play out. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 13May 08, 2021 1:54 pm SaveH2O Lou1 We put our trust in our builder and the Surveyor. Did you appoint the building surveyor or did the builder? They did, Pretty sure part of the Surveyors job is to act in the best interest of the owner of the build, Isn't it ? Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 14May 08, 2021 4:42 pm Lou1 They did, In Victoria, the new home owner or a person who has written documentation from the owner authorising them to act as the owner's agent can appoint a building surveyor. This is to prevent the builder appointing their lacky who has a vested interest to 'not rock the boat'. Was this discussed? https://www.vba.vic.gov.au/consumers/ho ... g-surveyor I don't like your chances re the mortar given that you agreed to them using the Performance Solution. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Mortar Mix Composition doesn't Comply with AS3700 16May 09, 2021 10:27 am Lou1 The Contract Performance Solution re Masonry Mortar Mix States the below. * This Performance Solution relates to allow the nominal mortar mix ratio used in the construction of masonry walls to be 1 part cement, 1 part lime and 10 parts sand. The Lab results show 1 part cement, 0.8 Lime and 9.3 sand. Not sure if there get out of jail card will play out. The Contract Performance Solution Clause is just one part of the process and I wouldn't put all your hopes on that in a court of law. BTW, forensic engineering after the event is no substitute for on site investigations, prima facie evidence gathered during the Build, Data/proofs, etc, (for which you weren't prepared). The biggest problem you now face is the Building surveyor signed off and the only other professional (your engineer) able to question the work/material/ alternate solutions, etc during the build did not. What you need to understand is that engineers wrote the Structural Codes not Architects, Building Surveyors and Builders. As soon as they tell you that's the new way without signed/certified authorization, RUN FOR ASSISTANCE. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs thanks guys! yes this is how I've exactly raised it with the builder. still awaiting response. 12 6026 there is only 20% difference in concrete strength between 20 mpa and 25 mpa, so check with your engineer first if it fits his calculation tolerances. There are ways to… 6 18294 Hi, I am planning to select San Selmo reclaimed original for the fascade of my build. I have seen many photos on line of the brick varying from a rustic to a neat finish.… 0 4569 |