Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jan 04, 2021 10:35 pm Hi all, my friends (who have built their own houses) suggested me engage my own independent inspector to perform inspections at critical stages during the construction. I think it's a great idea however the builder has advised that if I do so, they will increase the contract time by four weeks and also add additional charge for $1,250 per inspection/re-inspection, and without paying the fees, they won't review or act on my inspector's comments at all. I do understand that by engaging my own inspector, this will cause delays and more admin work to my builder, but do you think the builder's requirement is reasonable? If you have dealt with your builder in engaging your own inspector, could you please share your experience with us? I would like to learn how to negotiate with our builder... Many thanks in advance! Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 2Jan 05, 2021 12:05 am Absurd tactics to try and persuade you into not doing it. Unfortunately we didn’t engage a building inspector and I do regret it, don’t let them trick you with this BS. If you haven’t signed a contract with them, I would be looking at other builders as this is a red flag. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 3Jan 05, 2021 7:31 am my builder (Fowler Homes) is happy and welcome it with no impact - Unless there are changes and rectification to be done which will push certain stages out obviously. your builder sounds dodge and clearly dont want checks done Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 4Jan 05, 2021 8:35 am Lina C I do understand that by engaging my own inspector, this will cause delays and more admin work to my builder, but do you think the builder's requirement is reasonable? There will be no delays if no non compliance, non adherence to the plans, damage or unacceptable workmanship is found and legally they cannot stop your own appointed agent from doing inspections provided the builder is given notice beforehand. It reeks of unfair contract clauses, check the ACCC website if you don't know what they are. Builders who try these scum bag tactics are giving a clear signal that they have little confidence in their own ability to deliver a well built house plus they are disrespecting you. Time for you to give them your own signal. BTW, only communicate with the builder in writing. Was your request and their 'advice' verbal or written? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 5Jan 05, 2021 8:49 am Lina C Hi all, my friends (who have built their own houses) suggested me engage my own independent inspector to perform inspections at critical stages during the construction. I think it's a great idea however the builder has advised that if I do so, they will increase the contract time by four weeks and also add additional charge for $1,250 per inspection/re-inspection, and without paying the fees, they won't review or act on my inspector's comments at all. I do understand that by engaging my own inspector, this will cause delays and more admin work to my builder, but do you think the builder's requirement is reasonable? If you have dealt with your builder in engaging your own inspector, could you please share your experience with us? I would like to learn how to negotiate with our builder... Many thanks in advance! Unless you've gone to far down the track with these rogues it would be a good idea to take the opportunity to wave them goodbye. You inspector will not cause any delays, admin work or cost to your builder if your builder build to their stated standards and the agreed specs. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 6Jan 05, 2021 7:11 pm Thank you all for your kind suggestions and comments! I've gone a bit far down the track, but at least haven't signed a contract yet... I'll try to negotiate with my builder and report back here later. Thanks again! Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 7Jan 05, 2021 7:17 pm SaveH2O Lina C I do understand that by engaging my own inspector, this will cause delays and more admin work to my builder, but do you think the builder's requirement is reasonable? There will be no delays if no non compliance, non adherence to the plans, damage or unacceptable workmanship is found and legally they cannot stop your own appointed agent from doing inspections provided the builder is given notice beforehand. It reeks of unfair contract clauses, check the ACCC website if you don't know what they are. Builders who try these scum bag tactics are giving a clear signal that they have little confidence in their own ability to deliver a well built house plus they are disrespecting you. Time for you to give them your own signal. BTW, only communicate with the builder in writing. Was your request and their 'advice' verbal or written? You are absolutely right. I now regret that I didn't request to put their verbal consent to us engaging our own inspector into the tender... Now I only got this 'advice' in draft contract🤦♀️ Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 8Jan 05, 2021 7:30 pm The ACCC would be interested to see it. Basically, you are being bullied but they are in the wrong. Did you check the ACCC website for "Unfair Contract Clause"? Section 23 Unfair terms of consumer contracts (1) A term of a consumer contract is void if: (a) the term is unfair; and (b) the contract is a standard form contract. (2) The contract continues to bind the parties if it is capable of operating without the unfair term. (3) A consumer contract is a contract for: (a) a supply of goods or services; or (b) a sale or grant of an interest in land; to an individual whose acquisition of the goods, services or interest is wholly or predominantly for personal, domestic or household use or consumption. Section 24 Meaning of unfair (1) A term of a consumer contract is unfair if: (a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and (c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on. (2) In determining whether a term of a consumer contract is unfair under subsection (1), a court may take into account such matters as it thinks relevant, but must take into account the following: (a) the extent to which the term is transparent; (b) the contract as a whole. (3) A term is transparent if the term is: (a) expressed in reasonably plain language; and (b) legible; and (c) presented clearly; and (d) readily available to any party affected by the term. (4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a term of a consumer contract is presumed not to be reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term, unless that party proves otherwise. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 9Jan 06, 2021 10:43 am SaveH2O The ACCC would be interested to see it. Basically, you are being bullied but they are in the wrong. Did you check the ACCC website for "Unfair Contract Clause"? Section 23 Unfair terms of consumer contracts (1) A term of a consumer contract is void if: (a) the term is unfair; and (b) the contract is a standard form contract. (2) The contract continues to bind the parties if it is capable of operating without the unfair term. (3) A consumer contract is a contract for: (a) a supply of goods or services; or (b) a sale or grant of an interest in land; to an individual whose acquisition of the goods, services or interest is wholly or predominantly for personal, domestic or household use or consumption. Section 24 Meaning of unfair (1) A term of a consumer contract is unfair if: (a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and (c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on. (2) In determining whether a term of a consumer contract is unfair under subsection (1), a court may take into account such matters as it thinks relevant, but must take into account the following: (a) the extent to which the term is transparent; (b) the contract as a whole. (3) A term is transparent if the term is: (a) expressed in reasonably plain language; and (b) legible; and (c) presented clearly; and (d) readily available to any party affected by the term. (4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a term of a consumer contract is presumed not to be reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term, unless that party proves otherwise. Hi SaveH2O, Thank you so much for posting the extract from ACCC website. I actually have checked the ACCC website and found the information the first time when I saw your response. Following ACCC's FAQs, I'll try to ask my builder to remove/amend the term. I'm sure they'll argue that the term is not unfair. We'll see... Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 10Jan 06, 2021 12:23 pm The clauses put you at a considerable disadvantage, there is no question that they would be recognised by the ACCC as being unfair contract clauses. Wisdom Homes and a few other builders have fell foul of the ACCC over unfair contract clauses in recent times, a keyword forum search will bring up a few examples. I would be very concerned by their lack of confidence in their own ability to deliver a well built house and would make that known to them. You are paying for a well built home and you are also helping them stay in business by contracting them. Some builders seem to forget this. I strongly suggest having everything in writing from now on and also take as many date marked photos as you can during the build, even if you don't know what you are taking photos of. I hope that it goes smoothly for you. Are you having a Homeone build thread in the New Homes sub forum? 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 13Feb 03, 2022 4:52 pm Lina C SaveH2O The ACCC would be interested to see it. Basically, you are being bullied but they are in the wrong. Did you check the ACCC website for "Unfair Contract Clause"? Section 23 Unfair terms of consumer contracts (1) A term of a consumer contract is void if: (a) the term is unfair; and (b) the contract is a standard form contract. (2) The contract continues to bind the parties if it is capable of operating without the unfair term. (3) A consumer contract is a contract for: (a) a supply of goods or services; or (b) a sale or grant of an interest in land; to an individual whose acquisition of the goods, services or interest is wholly or predominantly for personal, domestic or household use or consumption. Section 24 Meaning of unfair (1) A term of a consumer contract is unfair if: (a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and (c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on. (2) In determining whether a term of a consumer contract is unfair under subsection (1), a court may take into account such matters as it thinks relevant, but must take into account the following: (a) the extent to which the term is transparent; (b) the contract as a whole. (3) A term is transparent if the term is: (a) expressed in reasonably plain language; and (b) legible; and (c) presented clearly; and (d) readily available to any party affected by the term. (4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a term of a consumer contract is presumed not to be reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term, unless that party proves otherwise. Hi SaveH2O, Thank you so much for posting the extract from ACCC website. I actually have checked the ACCC website and found the information the first time when I saw your response. Following ACCC's FAQs, I'll try to ask my builder to remove/amend the term. I'm sure they'll argue that the term is not unfair. We'll see... can you please DM me/let me know how this went, and if they decide to delete that clause? Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 14Feb 03, 2022 4:58 pm For those counting on the ACCC...don't hold your breath. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 15Feb 03, 2022 6:11 pm Happyue Lina C SaveH2O The ACCC would be interested to see it. Basically, you are being bullied but they are in the wrong. Did you check the ACCC website for "Unfair Contract Clause"? Section 23 Unfair terms of consumer contracts (1) A term of a consumer contract is void if: (a) the term is unfair; and (b) the contract is a standard form contract. (2) The contract continues to bind the parties if it is capable of operating without the unfair term. (3) A consumer contract is a contract for: (a) a supply of goods or services; or (b) a sale or grant of an interest in land; to an individual whose acquisition of the goods, services or interest is wholly or predominantly for personal, domestic or household use or consumption. Section 24 Meaning of unfair (1) A term of a consumer contract is unfair if: (a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and (c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on. (2) In determining whether a term of a consumer contract is unfair under subsection (1), a court may take into account such matters as it thinks relevant, but must take into account the following: (a) the extent to which the term is transparent; (b) the contract as a whole. (3) A term is transparent if the term is: (a) expressed in reasonably plain language; and (b) legible; and (c) presented clearly; and (d) readily available to any party affected by the term. (4) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a term of a consumer contract is presumed not to be reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term, unless that party proves otherwise. Hi SaveH2O, Thank you so much for posting the extract from ACCC website. I actually have checked the ACCC website and found the information the first time when I saw your response. Following ACCC's FAQs, I'll try to ask my builder to remove/amend the term. I'm sure they'll argue that the term is not unfair. We'll see... can you please DM me/let me know how this went, and if they decide to delete that clause? Apologies for not reporting how this went earlier... My builder didn't agree to delete that clause. But over a phone call, they have indicated that if I bring along an inspector to the scheduled inspections, the inspector can verbally communicate any concerns/identified issues to the site supervisor on site. The fees are only applicable if we submit a 'report' for review and action. Anyway, I ended up not engaging a private inspector. Our PCA did mention 'very good workmanship' once on one of his inspections. However there was also a non-remediable breach which possibly could be avoided if we had engaged a private inspector... Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 16Feb 03, 2022 6:28 pm Thank you for letting me know! do you mind if you could confirm via PM (if you are not comfortable here) whether your builder was the same as ours? what was the non remediable breach :O? Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 17Feb 03, 2022 6:52 pm Lina C Our PCA did mention 'very good workmanship' once on one of his inspections. Your PCA worked for your builder, not you and they are not required to check numerous facets.. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 19Feb 04, 2022 7:27 am With any builder its worth asking them for a copy of their particular contract template and reviewing it before paying them any deposit or tender fee. If they won't provide this then ask them what are they hiding? The standard HIA contract is one sided enough, without added unfair special clauses like Better Built Homes cunning extra fees to discourage client's private quality inspections. Don't settle for any salesperson's smooth verbal 'assurances'. Get things in writing before paying. Re: Cost required by the builder for engaging your own inspe 20Feb 04, 2022 7:58 am Kippers01 With any builder its worth asking them for a copy of their particular contract template and reviewing it before paying them any deposit or tender fee. If they won't provide this then ask them what are they hiding? The standard HIA contract is one sided enough, without added unfair special clauses like Better Built Homes cunning extra fees to discourage client's private quality inspections. Don't settle for any salesperson's smooth verbal 'assurances'. Get things in writing before paying. comes under unfair clauses. 99% of people cant or don't want to argue with their builders and get sucked in by the builders countless years of experience rebuffing various contract term changes etc. In my opinion, the earliest you find out about such a non standard unfair clause should be the moment you walk away. Again most people dont, then end up with all sorts of issues. Cognative dissonance in action. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. I would send it to the certifier who is technically your representative and working on your behalf not the builder's 1 2254 Hi Mofflepop, I would recommend finding a building designer to prepare plans, they should design to your specified budget. The benefit is you can tender the project out… 9 20354 If you already have a contract, is the inspection cost stated in there? If not they would be forced to issue you a variation which you could of course object to. 12 25849 |