Advice please: Dual occ in Bayside, Vic

ellietan · Jan 04, 2021 7:34 pm

Hi Home One-ers! Looking for some advice please. I’m a complete novice in this domain. I’m looking at knocking down an existing home and building two side-by-side (dual occ) homes on it. I haven’t yet engaged in any meaningful discussions with builders, but think I’ll start discussions with Thomas Archer and Carter Grange.

Some of my questions are:
- How much (approx) should I budget for demolition? It’s a 600m2-ish block with a pool. There are no plans to keep the pool.
- I’ve heard figures of $2k to $25k for subdivision. What’s the actual cost in Bayside?
- What are the standard inclusions like for someone like Thomas Archer? Are they decent quality/usable?
- What do you think most people spend on upgrades (ie what should I budget for upgrades)? I know this could vary significantly.
- What costs aren’t included the the TA/CG costs? Are ovens, hot plates, tiles, curtains and blinds, etc?
- I’ll budget for a surveyor, on top of the other things I’ve mentioned above (subdivision, demolition) but is there anything else you think I need to factor in?
- What sequence and timeframes I should be budgeting for? For example, between choosing a builder and selecting finishes, between agreeing on finishes and getting/signing a contract, between signing a contract and starting to build, between starting to build and handover?
- What’s the typical payment schedule?
- Any other words of wisdom are greatly appreciated 🙏

aussieta · Jan 05, 2021 7:48 am

the pool is going to impact costs the most as i assume you will be building over the pool area

sifntdaz · Jan 05, 2021 8:49 am

ellietan

Hi Home One-ers! Looking for some advice please. I’m a complete novice in this domain. I’m looking at knocking down an existing home and building two side-by-side (dual occ) homes on it. I haven’t yet engaged in any meaningful discussions with builders, but think I’ll start discussions with Thomas Archer and Carter Grange.

Some of my questions are:
- How much (approx) should I budget for demolition? It’s a 600m2-ish block with a pool. There are no plans to keep the pool.
- I’ve heard figures of $2k to $25k for subdivision. What’s the actual cost in Bayside?
- What are the standard inclusions like for someone like Thomas Archer? Are they decent quality/usable?
- What do you think most people spend on upgrades (ie what should I budget for upgrades)? I know this could vary significantly.
- What costs aren’t included the the TA/CG costs? Are ovens, hot plates, tiles, curtains and blinds, etc?
- I’ll budget for a surveyor, on top of the other things I’ve mentioned above (subdivision, demolition) but is there anything else you think I need to factor in?
- What sequence and timeframes I should be budgeting for? For example, between choosing a builder and selecting finishes, between agreeing on finishes and getting/signing a contract, between signing a contract and starting to build, between starting to build and handover?
- What’s the typical payment schedule?
- Any other words of wisdom are greatly appreciated 🙏

Hi Ellie

i'll respond to what I can. I am currently building with TA after having spoken to a range of builders including CG where we didn't have a great experience. The build is in sth east suburbs.

- Demo for 700sqm was approx 13k including asbestos removal. No pool included.
- Standard inclusion for TA can be downloaded from their website (https://thomasarcher.com.au/wp-content/ ... _EMAIL.pdf). We found that we upgraded a fair bit, but each to their own here. If you go through some TA build threads here you will get an indication of what people did and approximate costs.
- Some appliances come with TA e.g. rangehood, cooker, ovens. However other things like fridge / freezer, washer etc. can be organised after handover. All flooring is included, however window furnishings are not. Obviously things that are included can potentially be taken out and done by your own contractor after handover. I think I read that someone was doing their kitchen bench after handover in one of the threads to save cost.
- Other costs to consider:
1. We had overhead power lines, so we upgraded to an electrical pit. This was about $5k? Allowed us to have 3 phase power, but also may be required for dual occ?
2. You will most likely need to pay various application / bond fees to council for things like demo and protection of the footpath / crossover. Undoubtedly the demo company will damage all of it and you will need to fix. Every demo contract I got quoted with stated that even if they damage it, owner pays.
3. Some costs associated with disconnecting power, gas, water
4. Temporary fencing for the front and any trees in your nature strip
5. Land insurance if there is a gap between demo and build for things like public liability
6. Landscaping (big cost)
7. Independent inspector fees if you so choose
8. Bank fees to set up the construction loan etc if you are borrowing
9. Any additional costs to achieve required energy rating.
10. site specific costs (e.g. do they need to use a crane, is the street you're building on very busy and traffic management is required).

- At a high level, sequence for me went as follows:
1. Sit with sales person to agree a concept design
2. Sign off on design and pay an initial deposit for them to commence detailed drawings and ordering any site specific information e.g. survey, sewerage info etc.
3. Back and forth on these as well as inclusions etc
4. Style appointment where you work with one of their interior designers (not sure if thats the official title) to agree and sign off on colours, inclusions and basically everything going in to the house.
5. Electrical appointment to agree on all things electrical (e.g. switches, powerpoints, light locations etc.)
6. TA consolidate all this information into a fixed price tender
7. Back and forth on this
8. Sign off fixed price contract and HIA contract and pay deposit
9. Site start

As with any process, this can go for as long or as short as you want. I found that there was some delays on their end (possibly covid related) but also depends on how detailed you go through each element. If you are happy to gloss over all the info or don't make any changes to their standard design, then I would suggest this could be sorted in 3-4 months? We took a lot longer than that.

Payment schedule for the main build:
1. Deposit 5%
2. Slab 10%
3. Frame 20%
4. Lockup 30%
5. Fixing 25%
6. Settlement (final payment) 10%

ellietan · Jan 05, 2021 12:09 pm

sifntdaz

ellietan

Hi Home One-ers! Looking for some advice please. I’m a complete novice in this domain. I’m looking at knocking down an existing home and building two side-by-side (dual occ) homes on it. I haven’t yet engaged in any meaningful discussions with builders, but think I’ll start discussions with Thomas Archer and Carter Grange.

Some of my questions are:
- How much (approx) should I budget for demolition? It’s a 600m2-ish block with a pool. There are no plans to keep the pool.
- I’ve heard figures of $2k to $25k for subdivision. What’s the actual cost in Bayside?
- What are the standard inclusions like for someone like Thomas Archer? Are they decent quality/usable?
- What do you think most people spend on upgrades (ie what should I budget for upgrades)? I know this could vary significantly.
- What costs aren’t included the the TA/CG costs? Are ovens, hot plates, tiles, curtains and blinds, etc?
- I’ll budget for a surveyor, on top of the other things I’ve mentioned above (subdivision, demolition) but is there anything else you think I need to factor in?
- What sequence and timeframes I should be budgeting for? For example, between choosing a builder and selecting finishes, between agreeing on finishes and getting/signing a contract, between signing a contract and starting to build, between starting to build and handover?
- What’s the typical payment schedule?
- Any other words of wisdom are greatly appreciated 🙏

Hi Ellie

i'll respond to what I can. I am currently building with TA after having spoken to a range of builders including CG where we didn't have a great experience. The build is in sth east suburbs.

- Demo for 700sqm was approx 13k including asbestos removal. No pool included.
- Standard inclusion for TA can be downloaded from their website (https://thomasarcher.com.au/wp-content/ ... _EMAIL.pdf). We found that we upgraded a fair bit, but each to their own here. If you go through some TA build threads here you will get an indication of what people did and approximate costs.
- Some appliances come with TA e.g. rangehood, cooker, ovens. However other things like fridge / freezer, washer etc. can be organised after handover. All flooring is included, however window furnishings are not. Obviously things that are included can potentially be taken out and done by your own contractor after handover. I think I read that someone was doing their kitchen bench after handover in one of the threads to save cost.
- Other costs to consider:
1. We had overhead power lines, so we upgraded to an electrical pit. This was about $5k? Allowed us to have 3 phase power, but also may be required for dual occ?
2. You will most likely need to pay various application / bond fees to council for things like demo and protection of the footpath / crossover. Undoubtedly the demo company will damage all of it and you will need to fix. Every demo contract I got quoted with stated that even if they damage it, owner pays.
3. Some costs associated with disconnecting power, gas, water
4. Temporary fencing for the front and any trees in your nature strip
5. Land insurance if there is a gap between demo and build for things like public liability
6. Landscaping (big cost)
7. Independent inspector fees if you so choose
8. Bank fees to set up the construction loan etc if you are borrowing
9. Any additional costs to achieve required energy rating.
10. site specific costs (e.g. do they need to use a crane, is the street you're building on very busy and traffic management is required).

- At a high level, sequence for me went as follows:
1. Sit with sales person to agree a concept design
2. Sign off on design and pay an initial deposit for them to commence detailed drawings and ordering any site specific information e.g. survey, sewerage info etc.
3. Back and forth on these as well as inclusions etc
4. Style appointment where you work with one of their interior designers (not sure if thats the official title) to agree and sign off on colours, inclusions and basically everything going in to the house.
5. Electrical appointment to agree on all things electrical (e.g. switches, powerpoints, light locations etc.)
6. TA consolidate all this information into a fixed price tender
7. Back and forth on this
8. Sign off fixed price contract and HIA contract and pay deposit
9. Site start

As with any process, this can go for as long or as short as you want. I found that there was some delays on their end (possibly covid related) but also depends on how detailed you go through each element. If you are happy to gloss over all the info or don't make any changes to their standard design, then I would suggest this could be sorted in 3-4 months? We took a lot longer than that.

Payment schedule for the main build:
1. Deposit 5%
2. Slab 10%
3. Frame 20%
4. Lockup 30%
5. Fixing 25%
6. Settlement (final payment) 10%

Thank you so much! This has been really helpful. I’ll have a bit more of a browse on TA-specific threads to see what people have upgraded and $$. All the best with your build!

aussieta · Jan 05, 2021 1:01 pm

i would really be investigating site costs before you get too excited

CYB · Jan 05, 2021 10:19 pm

I was told to budget about 60K in site costs (inc demo) for a KDR. So take that plus the cost of subdivision.

Not sure what a pool would do to that though.

aussieta · Jan 06, 2021 7:28 am

pool has a massive impact on site costs

sifntdaz · Jan 06, 2021 8:24 am

my site costs were 38k, class S soil, waffle slab, 300mm fall over site. The cost however also included a pool cover given pool is close to the house and the shell was dug prior to the house commencing.

Blacktea2sugars · Jan 06, 2021 12:42 pm

sifntdaz

ellietan

Hi Home One-ers! Looking for some advice please. I’m a complete novice in this domain. I’m looking at knocking down an existing home and building two side-by-side (dual occ) homes on it. I haven’t yet engaged in any meaningful discussions with builders, but think I’ll start discussions with Thomas Archer and Carter Grange.

Some of my questions are:
- How much (approx) should I budget for demolition? It’s a 600m2-ish block with a pool. There are no plans to keep the pool.
- I’ve heard figures of $2k to $25k for subdivision. What’s the actual cost in Bayside?
- What are the standard inclusions like for someone like Thomas Archer? Are they decent quality/usable?
- What do you think most people spend on upgrades (ie what should I budget for upgrades)? I know this could vary significantly.
- What costs aren’t included the the TA/CG costs? Are ovens, hot plates, tiles, curtains and blinds, etc?
- I’ll budget for a surveyor, on top of the other things I’ve mentioned above (subdivision, demolition) but is there anything else you think I need to factor in?
- What sequence and timeframes I should be budgeting for? For example, between choosing a builder and selecting finishes, between agreeing on finishes and getting/signing a contract, between signing a contract and starting to build, between starting to build and handover?
- What’s the typical payment schedule?
- Any other words of wisdom are greatly appreciated 🙏

Hi Ellie

i'll respond to what I can. I am currently building with TA after having spoken to a range of builders including CG where we didn't have a great experience. The build is in sth east suburbs.

- Demo for 700sqm was approx 13k including asbestos removal. No pool included.
- Standard inclusion for TA can be downloaded from their website (https://thomasarcher.com.au/wp-content/ ... _EMAIL.pdf). We found that we upgraded a fair bit, but each to their own here. If you go through some TA build threads here you will get an indication of what people did and approximate costs.
- Some appliances come with TA e.g. rangehood, cooker, ovens. However other things like fridge / freezer, washer etc. can be organised after handover. All flooring is included, however window furnishings are not. Obviously things that are included can potentially be taken out and done by your own contractor after handover. I think I read that someone was doing their kitchen bench after handover in one of the threads to save cost.
- Other costs to consider:
1. We had overhead power lines, so we upgraded to an electrical pit. This was about $5k? Allowed us to have 3 phase power, but also may be required for dual occ?
2. You will most likely need to pay various application / bond fees to council for things like demo and protection of the footpath / crossover. Undoubtedly the demo company will damage all of it and you will need to fix. Every demo contract I got quoted with stated that even if they damage it, owner pays.
3. Some costs associated with disconnecting power, gas, water
4. Temporary fencing for the front and any trees in your nature strip
5. Land insurance if there is a gap between demo and build for things like public liability
6. Landscaping (big cost)
7. Independent inspector fees if you so choose
8. Bank fees to set up the construction loan etc if you are borrowing
9. Any additional costs to achieve required energy rating.
10. site specific costs (e.g. do they need to use a crane, is the street you're building on very busy and traffic management is required).

- At a high level, sequence for me went as follows:
1. Sit with sales person to agree a concept design
2. Sign off on design and pay an initial deposit for them to commence detailed drawings and ordering any site specific information e.g. survey, sewerage info etc.
3. Back and forth on these as well as inclusions etc
4. Style appointment where you work with one of their interior designers (not sure if thats the official title) to agree and sign off on colours, inclusions and basically everything going in to the house.
5. Electrical appointment to agree on all things electrical (e.g. switches, powerpoints, light locations etc.)
6. TA consolidate all this information into a fixed price tender
7. Back and forth on this
8. Sign off fixed price contract and HIA contract and pay deposit
9. Site start

As with any process, this can go for as long or as short as you want. I found that there was some delays on their end (possibly covid related) but also depends on how detailed you go through each element. If you are happy to gloss over all the info or don't make any changes to their standard design, then I would suggest this could be sorted in 3-4 months? We took a lot longer than that.

Payment schedule for the main build:
1. Deposit 5%
2. Slab 10%
3. Frame 20%
4. Lockup 30%
5. Fixing 25%
6. Settlement (final payment) 10%

excellent synopsis

Asset protection is a bond of $3000 plus a non refundable admin fee of a few hundred dollars.

YEs, the huge truckloads of deliveries and concreters will crack everything.
As a guide, we spent $15 000 plus on a largish driveway, 1200 wide path to front door (both in exposed agg) plus new 3.6 metre crossover and all footpath replaced. All adds up!

Legendary · Jan 12, 2021 12:23 pm

A few other costs to consider with a dual occupancy:
- Upgrade from overhead electricity to underground pit: $3-$6k
- Water utility charge incl. dual water meters with potential second mains tapping required: $2k - $3k (without tapping); $10k (with tapping)
- Land surveyor to prepare plan of subdivision: $3-4k
- Council fees for subdivision: $1.5-$2k (excl. planning permit fees)
- NBN development fee for dual connections: $1.5k plus $300 per unit connection fee
- Adequate storm water solution: on-site detention (up to $10k) and/or upgrade connection to Council storm water and/or new easement through neighbour's property. This is something to investigate with Council before permit stage.
- Building surveyor (must be engaged by you, not the builder): $6-7k
- Random Council fees - allow $2-3k

The pool is likely to require significant fill (soil) as part of demolition and site preparation works, and this will also affect your soil classification. Assuming a 6x3x2m pool area (36m3), you could be looking at $5-7k worth of soil and earthmoving costs to fill and compact the pool area. Your slab may also require extra strengthening if it is built over the previous pool area.