Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Nov 13, 2020 11:20 am Hi, I draw my plan of the house to meet all my family needs (approx 300m2 include double garage). I have a big block of land (approx 6,000 m2) and can build my dream house in any directions. The builder (private small company) suggest me to find the architect to make a professional plan. The architect fee is $1,320 . Q - is it a reasonable price for the plan? Big company consultant suggest an independent drafter to redraw my plan. The independent's drafter fee is $300. Q - what is the different between Drafter's plan and Architect's plan? or is it the same, and both used just computer's drafting design? The architect advice to make a soil report (fee is $300), than the engineer plan (fee is $1,320), than the electricity plan of the house (fee is $250) Q - is it true, that some building companies did not work with Custom's Architect/Engineer plans and Soil Report such as Fairmont or Staetsman? Any suggestions? Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 2Nov 13, 2020 12:05 pm Val G Hi, I draw my plan of the house to meet all my family needs (approx 300m2 include double garage). I have a big block of land (approx 6,000 m2) and can build my dream house in any directions. The builder (private small company) suggest me to find the architect to make a professional plan. The architect fee is $1,320 . Q - is it a reasonable price for the plan? Big company consultant suggest an independent drafter to redraw my plan. The independent's drafter fee is $300. Q - what is the different between Drafter's plan and Architect's plan? or is it the same, and both used just computer's drafting design? The architect advice to make a soil report (fee is $300), than the engineer plan (fee is $1,320), than the electricity plan of the house (fee is $250) Q - is it true, that some building companies did not work with Custom's Architect/Engineer plans and Soil Report such as Fairmont or Staetsman? Any suggestions? Hi Val G I will try and unpack your questions. Firstly the prices you are getting sound reasonably cheap for both the draftsman and the architect. But for these prices I would guess that they are only for a preliminary sketch. you wont be able to build from these. For construction you will need construction drawings which for a 300sqm house will be 15-20 pages with a lot of dimensions, sections and elevations. Every part of your house needs a dimension so it can be built. You will also need Structural and hydraulic plans, and depending on your council a landscape plan. You will also need a site survey. We pay approx $10-12,000 for a full set of plans from a draftsman ( this includes engineering) an architect will be $20-40,000. Yes some builders wont use your drawings but there are a lot of builders who will use them. Alternatively, there are a number of builders who can take your hand sketch and then develop the drawings themselves as a design and construct package. There are some very good draftsman who do some great work, but with my business we mainly use architects as we find that architects with all their extra training can come up with some really unique ideas so make our clients homes unique. If you have a really tight budget and you know what you want, go with a draftsman hope that helps regards Simeon www,ashingtonhomes.com.au Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 3Nov 13, 2020 12:49 pm As Simeon had mentioned, there are typically 3 levels of drawings: DA drawings (suitable for DA or CDC submission), CC drawings (include engineering details, hydraulics, BASIX etc. needed to obtain construction certificate) and working drawings (detailed sections, electrical plan, kitchen/joinery layouts, sometimes plumbing diagrams, tiling/flooring layout plans, interior design layouts, etc. required for builder to build your house). Most detailed working drawings I have seen would include full 3D models, separate wall and ceiling layouts for all the walls and ceilings including colours/materials specifications, detailed layouts for electrical wiring, plumbing, full lighting specs, etc. Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 4Nov 13, 2020 12:57 pm alexp79 As Simeon had mentioned, there are typically 3 levels of drawings: DA drawings (suitable for DA or CDC submission), CC drawings (include engineering details, hydraulics, BASIX etc. needed to obtain construction certificate) and working drawings (detailed sections, electrical plan, kitchen/joinery layouts, sometimes plumbing diagrams, tiling/flooring layout plans, interior design layouts, etc. required for builder to build your house). Most detailed working drawings I have seen would include full 3D models, separate wall and ceiling layouts for all the walls and ceilings including colours/materials specifications, detailed layouts for electrical wiring, plumbing, full lighting specs, etc. Alex thanks for explaining that better than me Appreciate it cheers Simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 5Nov 13, 2020 2:33 pm Thank you, Alex and Simeon. Very appreciate for the explanation. What is the best solution will be, if I try build house with max $300k for 300m2? I read a lot forum what other people suggest, how reduce expenses such as exclude flooring, ducted aircond, paving, overhead kitchen cupboard and cabinetry in the laundry. I can do it later, after hand over. is it any suggestion or simple plan that I can follow? I'm already visit a lot of building companies and got a quote. I'm confused when the quote shows the hundreds "included" without $amount. I'm never build a house and not sure that consultants always honest with me 100%, so I decide: 1. Draw my plan - Done 2. Give it to Architect (to locked my rights to the plan) - made an appointment for today 3.? - what is the next steps? Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 7Nov 13, 2020 3:29 pm make sure to keep ownership of your plans once architect or drafter draw them up, they own them unless you specify first then if you dont like their price for full plans too bad, they own the plan Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 8Nov 14, 2020 9:07 am Hey Val G Your budget around $1000/m2 might be tight. I would hate to see you waste 3-10% ( contract value) getting a design done that isn't within your price range/specifications as that's money you'll never get back if you don't proceed here's my2c 1.Select a designer that's is local and physically check their projects with clients 2.Get your sketch turned into a Bim 3D Model, clearly define boundaries ie , Costs, Specifications, Simulations, certifications etc 3.Offer up 1-2% for First Stage Building 3D Bim model (to Lockup) with, Engineering and Data 4.Own copyright, make sure the designer doesn't get commissions loaded into the builders quote 5.The Bim data can be used to check Builder, trade and material quotes, prices are available on the internet 6.Make sure your designer, engineer, consultants and builder use the same software (model) throughout which comes in handy during all stages 7.Offer up 1-2%, complete the second Stage 3D Bim Model (to Completion for BA), add in the final level of details and costs ( repeat 5 & 6) OT, Sorry I can't recommend anyone over east, don't confuse architectural/artistic Bim with AEC Bim the latter provides data and proofs which is critical for certification, upgrade comparisons, etc Also the more information you put up the better the reply, also it helps others Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 10Nov 14, 2020 1:17 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hey Val G Your budget around $1000/m2 might be tight. I would hate to see you waste 3-10% ( contract value) getting a design done that isn't within your price range/specifications as that's money you'll never get back if you don't proceed here's my2c 1.Select a designer that's is local and physically check their projects with clients 2.Get your sketch turned into a Bim 3D Model, clearly define boundaries ie , Costs, Specifications, Simulations, certifications etc 3.Offer up 1-2% for First Stage Building 3D Bim model (to Lockup) with, Engineering and Data 4.Own copyright, make sure the designer doesn't get commissions loaded into the builders quote 5.The Bim data can be used to check Builder, trade and material quotes, prices are available on the internet 6.Make sure your designer, engineer, consultants and builder use the same software (model) throughout which comes in handy during all stages 7.Offer up 1-2%, complete the second Stage 3D Bim Model (to Completion for BA), add in the final level of details and costs ( repeat 5 & 6) OT, Sorry I can't recommend anyone over east, don't confuse architectural/artistic Bim with AEC Bim the latter provides data and proofs which is critical for certification, upgrade comparisons, etc Also the more information you put up the better the reply, also it helps others Cheers Chris 1. How I can locked my ownership on the plan? 2. - How I can to turned my sketch into a Bim 3D Model? Should I ask my architect to do it for me? (I'm not really friendly with 3D Models. I tried draw my house plan on computer but was unsuccessful and finished my plan just by grandfather's method - on the paper with a pen.) I paid a deposit yesterday and also check with architect how my plan will be looking after. Answer was - 7-8 pages, includes all measurements. 3. 3.Offer up 1-2% for First Stage Building 3D Bim model (to Lockup) with, Engineering and Data - 1-2% from 300K? To Lockup what ownership of 3D plan? Offer to Engineer? Val G How I can to ownership my plan. is it enough to say "it is mine" or should I go to some office to locked my rights? Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 12Nov 14, 2020 8:59 pm Val G How I can to ownership my plan. is it enough to say "it is mine" You can try saying " IT'S MINE " in court, but i don't like your chances of winning. get a release of copyright from the designer in writing. then move on and focus on the rest , Site works, Engineering, Specifications, etc Most builders will take your plans and 1.Add changes that are difficult to compare and check with others 2.Use confusing Specifications, eg luxe, deluxe, mint deluxe whatever? 3. Add in over priced giveaways saying its worth $80K 4. Substitute materials to lower standards 5. Charge like wounded bulls for variation upgrades once you have paid a deposit for Preparation of Plans 6. The big ticket items are site works and engineering As on of Perths largest Builders Once said to me "Why make $1000 on upgrading door handles when they can make $20K on site works & Engineering ie piling" Ethically as an engineer I had a big problem with that OT if you can't check what the projects really worth... then you're back to square one....sorry for the rant Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 13Nov 14, 2020 10:09 pm so it is looking like I never get win-win process with building companies. I feel like I waste my time on drawing plan and spend money to the architect. Somebody already said that customise plan cost more than for example already drafted plan from Fairmont or Statesman. Is it true? I already paid deposit 50% and hope that my plan above will look more professional. I hope that it will be enough for DA and I can move forward. More I read and learn about building - more I want close eyes and let building company to do everything by themselves I really want to control my finance for building, but there a lot of stones under water that I can't see it and control. Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 14Nov 15, 2020 9:48 am Val G so it is looking like I never get win-win process with building companies. I feel like I waste my time on drawing plan and spend money to the architect. You can control the design, specs, etc, up until you signup thereafter be mindful of price gouging. Fix items that may become troublesome before paying a deposit. Val G Somebody already said that customise plan cost more than for example already drafted plan from Fairmont or Statesman. Is it true? Yes they do cost more, if you can find a display house with minimal changes then sign up Val G I already paid deposit 50% and hope that my plan above will look more professional. I hope that it will be enough for DA and I can move forward. All the plans, details and engineering are done after DA DA only requires a Floor Plan, elevations and a site plan hardly enough for the Building application (BA) Unfortunately professional looking plans and realistic coloured renderings actually inflames low paid trades on site. Trades want to know why they are getting paid peanuts to fix up coloured renderings/images that don't work. nuf said Val G More I read and learn about building - more I want close eyes and let building company to do everything by themselves If battlers and punters keep closing their eyes then improvements to the system will never come Val G I really want to control my finance for building, but there a lot of stones under water that I can't see it and control. Forewarned is Forearmed Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 15Nov 15, 2020 11:16 am Thank you very much for your comments. You give me a power to go forward. I'm very appreciate how this forum can help me! Main lesson from your comments for everyone who is building first time - never be passive and don't afraid to ask for help. Regards, Val Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 16Nov 15, 2020 5:40 pm Val G Thank you, Alex and Simeon. Very appreciate for the explanation. What is the best solution will be, if I try build house with max $300k for 300m2? I read a lot forum what other people suggest, how reduce expenses such as exclude flooring, ducted aircond, paving, overhead kitchen cupboard and cabinetry in the laundry. I can do it later, after hand over. is it any suggestion or simple plan that I can follow? I'm already visit a lot of building companies and got a quote. I'm confused when the quote shows the hundreds "included" without $amount. I'm never build a house and not sure that consultants always honest with me 100%, so I decide: 1. Draw my plan - Done 2. Give it to Architect (to locked my rights to the plan) - made an appointment for today 3.? - what is the next steps? Val, Can I ask where you got your budget of $300k from? did you see a kit home or project home for that price? Your budget equates to around $930/sqm. For a very basic brick veneer house you will need to budget for the following ( keeping in mind its a 320sqm slab) 1. Site establishment - $10,000 (includes HOW, fencing, toilets signage) 2. Slab & Piering - $60,000 3. Frame - $40,000 4. Plumbing - $25,000 5 Electrician - $18,000 6 Appliances, toilets, baths, showercreens, taps etc - $25,000 7. Bathroom Tiling - $20,000 8 Gyprock - $30,000 9. roof - 32,000 10, External Walls - $35,000 11. painting - $15,000 12. Internal Carpentry - $7,000 13, flooring - $9,000 14. Waste - $8,000 15. Windows - $12,000 16, Insulation - $6,000 17. Rain Water tank - $2500 18 Design & engineering $12,000 19. Joinery - $20,000 I have missed a bunch of items but that totals $386,000 and doesnt include any builders margin. So if you add another 15% it comes in at $444,000 which is circa $1300/sqm you might need to get the deposit back from the designer and rethink your build until you can get some more money anyway good luck simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 17Nov 15, 2020 5:51 pm SejaeD I find roofing on a high side or this is including roof framing? In that case framing excludes roof framing, i.e. 40K is going to be framing for walls alone? Also IMHO a bit highish on plumbing for single story (otherwise what comes under Waste?)? Shouldn't it be close to electrician? Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 18Nov 15, 2020 6:30 pm alexp79 @SejaeD I find roofing on a high side or this is including roof framing? In that case framing excludes roof framing, i.e. 40K is going to be framing for walls alone? Also IMHO a bit highish on plumbing for single story (otherwise what comes under Waste?)? Shouldn't it be close to electrician? Alex Hi Buddy These were very rough numbers which I rounded down in most cases and TBH I didnt count how many bathrooms he had. Having said that: 1. Timber framing including trusses costs us around $145/sqm, so this would be $46,000. Possible could save a bit getting 90x35 non treated maybe $5-10k less 2. I didnt include scaffolding,termite treatment, cleaning, cranage, OSD, building insurance, wet weather items such as sediment control, caulking, authority fees such as bonds, S94 etc, flyscreens, steel, certifier, blinds, level 2 works,and, water proofing, eves and airconditioning. If I added everything he would be at $1550/sqm 3. Electrical, would normally be $25k minimum for a house this size, but i was thinking he might do 1 powerpoint per room, oyster lights, no external power, no 3 phase etc. 4. Plumbing internals are normally $8-10k and external $12-14,000. That includes all in slab services, down pipes, rainwater tank connection, sewer, OSD connections. Theres a fair bit of work involved 5. Waste is referring to construction rubbish, you'll have 8-12 skips for this project. Possibly add some labour at $200/day for 10 days to help clean the site and pack the bins etc 6. Roof I was allowing $100/sqm, including sarking, battens if needed, flashings, facias and either colourbond or concrete tiles. Might be able to get it a touch cheaper by shopping around. Anyway, I think my general point still stands that unless he is building the house from mud bricks and straw bales which he makes himself onsite, I cant see him building a 323sqm house for $300,000 incl GST Speak soon Simeon Simeon McGovern Affordable Custom Homes, We design and build to your budget Ashington Homes www.ashingtonhomes.com.au Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 19Nov 15, 2020 6:56 pm Hi Simeon, I got a quote on my plan (300m2) from Fairmont and Statesman. Both shows around $300k. I asked buidings companies how much approximately m2 cost. Those 2 companies have $950-1000 per m2. Quote is exclude flooring, air ducted condition, overhead capboards in the kitchen, cabinetry in the laundry, septic tank, paving around house. Most of materials will be under standard choice. Also I check with my neighbour (they move to a new house build by Statesman one month ago) how much the slab cost for them. It was $31k for 292m2 house. Statesman gave me the same $amount for slab. I will build in SA region. May be we have a low prices? Re: Drawer's vs Architect's plan 20Nov 16, 2020 9:12 am Val G Hi Simeon, I got a quote on my plan (300m2) from Fairmont and Statesman. Both shows around $300k. I asked buidings companies how much approximately m2 cost. Those 2 companies have $950-1000 per m2. Quote is exclude flooring, air ducted condition, overhead capboards in the kitchen, cabinetry in the laundry, septic tank, paving around house. Most of materials will be under standard choice. Also I check with my neighbour (they move to a new house build by Statesman one month ago) how much the slab cost for them. It was $31k for 292m2 house. Statesman gave me the same $amount for slab. I will build in SA region. May be we have a low prices? Just ask them again what the turn key cost would be i.e. with flooring and all those extras that they have excluded. I've been told around $250,000 for a 170m2 house by a few volume builders in Adelaide (not including landscaping, concreting, fences, decking, pergola). I would probably add a bit on to that as a contingency. You may be able to get some things done outside of the contract like external paving/concrete, decking and pergolas, air cond, rain water etc. This will save you on a builders margin, but you still need to factor these in to the overall costs. Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10984 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10916 i thought the flipped plan initially but bec i want narrow pathway from entry to dining (dont like bend), also cannot fit the… 7 17278 |