Aug 19, 2020 4:05 pm
Building in Victoria. Is this document accurate regarding the Bal difference between 12.5 and 19 or are there other costs? our costs are quoted at $7,500 for bal19 which seems excessive based on the accuracy of this document. Allegedly the quote is because the whole house glass to be double glazed. Also does anyone in Victoria know with external doors what type of glazing is used in general.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING2
Aug 19, 2020 4:12 pm
Don't post the same question multiple times on the forum. The admins will get the sh1ts.
Yes it seems slightly excessive but doing basically double as opposed to single glazing would boost the cost upwards for sure. Have a look in the window section. I'm sure there have been questions of a similar nature posted before
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING5
Aug 20, 2020 10:53 am
Cala90 Thank you I know that but the sales person appears clueless, the document above was part of the signed floor plans and accordingly the “external doors 5mm toughened glass” are the same in bal 12.5 and bal 19 in fact most of the requirements are verbatim. I don’t know what “external windows within 400mm of ground” means but apart from the 3 glass sliding doors All the other windows are above 400mm. I believe he just added up all the glass and timed it by double glazing. We have been trying since January to start building a house with delay after delay, my daughter qualifies for the new build grant, they finally finished the floor plans end of May and delayed 2 months to fix mistakes and now this week they want her to sign contract with the $7,500 window cost. And also the soil test was class P so they needed “screw pile test” which again took weeks. The result was 95 screw piles 4 metres deep. $30,000 except they did it on the block next door. This has been the absolute worst experience of our lives. It’s too late now to get another builder, or she will lose her grant. This is a very big company and the only person you can communicate with is the sales person. Sorry for venting we just don’t know what to do. The first salesman left but he had put an “allowance of $3,000 for Bal 19 Variations” also an “allowance of $4000” because we were buying our own water tank. The new salesman put them together so allowance for variations turned into $7,000 so golly gosh the bal cost became $7,500. The front of our house faces south so that was allowed a bal reduction to 12.5. So the glass front door and large front windows weren’t part of the bal 19 variations. Thanks for listening.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING6
Aug 20, 2020 11:43 am
Welcome to the forum
You can work out the glazing upgrade by calculating the Total window m2 by (x) the cost of the glass upgrade all prices are on the internet.
It's even more Informative if you use 3D Bim
In this Eg it's 40m2 x $20/m2 =$800 approx plus extras
Prices are off the internet.. shop around, use G or Microsoft sheets
Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING7
Aug 21, 2020 9:50 am
Thank you ChrIs, I’ll try to calculate. Could I please ask your opinion about our screw pile test results, we have a 1300 sq block with the same size block next door, our neighbour told us there were large truck and machinery on the vacant block next to ours on the Saturday morning we looked and there were 2 holes. On the Monday after weeks of waiting they had the test results 95 X 4 metre screw piles. $ 30,000 The neighbour confirmed there were no holes on ours between Saturday afternoon and Monday. Not sure if it would change results anyway. Our soil test results were not good lots of moisture P class, Do you think the screw pile costs are reasonable? Is 2 test screw piles enough to determine the required amount? Is this the normal way it is done? Thanks in Advance.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING8
Aug 21, 2020 10:50 am
Two bore test holes are generally enough under the house pad area, The bore hole logs and drill location should be on the geotech report If they don't match then you'll need to ask why,eg the truck was unable to access the site?,I am curious as to why they picked the adjacent block is it worse than yours?
also contact your Council Building surveyor and a local engineer.
The builder should have made you aware of the above implications before you signed...but unfortunately that's not how the sales process works as bad news frightens potential clients away.It's easy for the builder to blame the salesman for the mistake, what comfort do you gain from the Builder sacking the salesperson as you are still stuck with unreasonable costs
You'll need to check everything hence the need for a BS and Engineer.
Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING9
Aug 21, 2020 12:50 pm
The land was subdivided, into 2 lots of 1300 a couple of years ago, there is a vacant lot on corner, then ours then a house, ours is called lot 1 for some obscure reason, so I guess they went there and assumed the first block was lot 1, both lots are fully fenced, but I would have thought they gave them the soil test results diagram which was definitely on our block. I will check with the BS and Engineer. I have read a lot of your posts about soil tests before buying land, I wish I had seen them before buying the land, I just thought it’s basically flat shouldn’t be any problems. Not so. Thank you so much for all your helpful advice.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING10
Aug 21, 2020 8:19 pm
Hi Janmors, it all depends on how many m2 the house is. If you say its 200m2 of living area then I would say that cost is reasonable for a BAL19 (What im gathering its not an additional price to the BAL12.5) if the roof doesn't have Anticon or Sarking included in the base house price.
You can't use a retail price for instance toughened glass over 4mm float to work out the additional cost for glazing. Its been said $20m2 retail, I looked on our system this morning (I work for a builder in Perth) and our pricing between the 2 is more than double $20m2, the window manufacturer we use is the largest manufacturer in the residential market in Perth and as you can imagine they would be buying huge amounts of 4mm float so they would be getting pricing to reflect that, they toughen there glass (5mm thick) onsite but wouldn't be using near as much as the 4mm thus why such a big difference for a builders rate.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING11
Aug 24, 2020 10:20 am
Thank you Doozer 1905. The builder builds standard to BAL 12.5. According to the builders BAL document above both BAL 12.5 and BAL 19 have “5mm toughened glass” we have 2 sliding doors 2110 x 1810 and one stacker door 4000 x 2370 so they would be exempt for extra cost.
I had to fight to get a glass front door, a person from “standards Australia” referred me to AS 3959-2009 3.5 so the front door and 2 other large windows at front are also exempt.
1. 1200 x 1810
2. 1027 x 610
3. 1200 x 850
4. 1200 x 1810
5. 1027 x 610
6. 1200 x 2710
7. 514 x 1810.
If my calculations are correct that is 10.798 m2 at $20 = $215.96 or at $40 per m2 = $431.92
Please correct me if I’m wrong. That is a mile away from $7,500.
Also according to their chart apart from the windows all the other BAL requirements between the Bal 19 and BAl 12.5 are the same.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING12
Aug 25, 2020 2:15 pm
As per Doozer 1905 “they toughen glass 5mm thick onsite”
Is this the same statewide? Does anybody know?
If you had a sliding door/window with 5mm toughened glass would they get them at 4mm safety and do this to all the doors/windows onsite?
Thanks in advance Janmors
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING13
Aug 25, 2020 8:11 pm
I may have confused you, when I said they toughen there glass onsite I meant in there factory they have a huge furnace type machine that does this.
If there are obscure glazed windows in any of those windows that you have listed they are already toughened glass, so potentially even less than you have listed, our cost (which I was referring to in the post) was excluding GST and margin, at a very maximum the price shouldn't exceed $80m2 (im being very generous as well with this price)
The only other item that can be different between BAL 12.5 and 19 (not the case with you as you have an aluminium front door) is the front door and door frame may have to change, depending on the species of timber used for the door frame. This would be a couple of hundred at most.
FYI, Aluminium sliding & Hinged DOORS need to be 5mm toughen as a minimum anyway.
If a client had a BAL12.5 and needed to upgrade to BAL19 we charge them less than $500 to do that, in saying that we allow 5mm toughen to all windows in BAL12.5 so there is no confusion or grey areas down the track if something were to happen, as you can see that wouldn't increase the price all that much anyway.
I would go back to the builder and ask them to justify the additional cost, im not sure how contracts work in other states but in WA you have to be fairly transparent. They can't just say that's the additional cost and not give you an explanation.
Good luck with it
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING14
Aug 26, 2020 11:27 am
Thank you Doozer 1905 “I may have confused you” haha not that difficult at the moment.
I have asked the salesman about price he said “because the whole house has to be double glazed” at that point I wanted to go outside and bang my head on a brick wall.
They steadfastly refused to let me have a glass front door because of the Bal 19 rating. Finally they relented when I quoted the shielding clause from Standards Australia about reducing Bal one level to 12.5. Clearly they have no idea about Bal ratings.
Thank you for very, very helpful advice.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING15
Oct 08, 2020 4:45 pm
Further to previous post. Our builder has now informed us that A&L windows will not use 5mm toughened glass only double glazing in regional Victoria, BAL 19 rating. Has anyone used A& l Bal 19 regional Victoria? Thank you.
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING16
Oct 09, 2020 11:57 pm
It doesn't comply and I couldn't see how they think it does, surely they can't be that stupid that they can't interpret the Australian Standards??
FYI you can now download the Australian Standard for building in a bushfire area free of charge on the SAI global website, I would download it, copy the pages that relate to BAL19 and ask them where does it state you can use double glazing with standardfloat glass, I am dumbfounded
Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED BAL RATING19
Oct 10, 2020 12:39 pm
FYI you can now download the Australian Standard for building in a bushfire area free of charge on the SAI global website,
That'll be the day!
Sign in or Join to reply to this Topic
11 more posts
hims01Underground Electricity Pit 3 Phase Power kW ratingUnderground Electricity Pit 3 Phase Power kW rating
What is the power requirement in kW for large 50+ sq house with induction cooking, centralized refrigerated cooling & heating and solar. Is diversified capacity of 20kW…
Thejones88House not built to NATHERS 6 Star Energy Rating.House not built to NATHERS 6 Star Energy Rating.
I have a lot of pictures but we are looking to take things further and I will post some soon. We have a 45mm incline in to one room, alfresco appears to have a bore pier…