Browse Forums Building A New House Re: Home networking future proofing 24Mar 03, 2022 1:23 pm kinigo270 Hi all, I am in the process of a knock down rebuild (design phase). Need to start thinking of networking options and which cables to use. Has anyone used fibre rather then cat6/7a or are there any other options more suitable to future proof the IT side of things. Hoping to hear peoples feedback with regards to setups and best ways to do it, pros and cons and if possible how much a typical fibre setup will cost vs standard cat 6. Thank you I wouldn't go fibre unless you really have a use case for it, we are pretty far from it ever needing to be something we need to run in houses. I have a few fibre runs myself but I am also not your average home user, and even I don't really need it for what I am using it for. You may be better off spending that money on them to run some thick diameter conduit in the walls for the network, this would allow you to easily add new cables or if we do get to the point you need fibre to eaisly replace your copper. Or spending the money on making sure they use good quality CAT6 cable will also help. Now the argument between all the different category cables, I just had my cabling done in my new build and went with CAT6. Most house builds won't be using a cable over the max distance for 10GbE unlike office buildings and data centres. You will be pretty safe if you go CAT6 and even if you opted for CAT6a wouldn't be a terrible option though you may not really need it for the extra cost they will charge. I am someone that uses a 10GbE network at home between my servers/NAS for backups, file transfers and such and I have never hit an issue on CAT6. Defiantly not your average use case and I still went with CAT6. This has also been the first time I have ever heard of WiFi being recommended for connections and saying cables are obsolete. WiFi is great and all with WiFI6 etc but it is still a long way off to beat old faithful ethernet, I have a bunch of Unifi stuff with the new WiFi6 AP's and I still got wired runs everywhere in my new build. Anything static I would get a wired connection done for, would be nice if more TV's would come out with 1GbE but I would also agree I would be looking at a solution that gets me that connection rather than going wireless. Comes down to your situation also as you can't really go about running cables in the wall in a rental, but if I was building a new house I would also go wired to as many places I can think of now. Re: Home networking future proofing 25Mar 03, 2022 3:18 pm yeah im confused about the Wifi recommendation too - Considder this - You have a 100MBT FTTP connection. Its off peak and you are accessing max theoretical speeds. Youre using your tv to stream some netflix via 5ghz wifi and someone else on the network starts tormenting a stack of movies to their computer via the wired connection in their bedroom- How is the bandwith thats being afforded to the 5Ghz wifi not impacted when the source connection is all the same? You will experience the same degredation over cable sof course during a similar scenario , but i just dont understand the benefit that the wifi is giving in the scenario. what im trying to say if youre hitting your max bandwith ACROSS the network, whats Wifi going for you? I have a 5ghz router and i can switch between connections when using wifi and sometimes i get a better speed than the standard but ive not ben able to pinpoint whats happening to cause that Seems random. Sometime the 5ghz connection is so slow despite nothing else consuming bandwidth. Interesting subject. Dark matter scientist, can breathe underwater, mind reader and can freeze matter just by willing it. Trust me, its in my sig. Re: Home networking future proofing 26Mar 04, 2022 6:42 pm Noname yeah im confused about the Wifi recommendation too - Considder this - You have a 100MBT FTTP connection. Its off peak and you are accessing max theoretical speeds. Youre using your tv to stream some netflix via 5ghz wifi and someone else on the network starts tormenting a stack of movies to their computer via the wired connection in their bedroom- How is the bandwith thats being afforded to the 5Ghz wifi not impacted when the source connection is all the same? You will experience the same degredation over cable sof course during a similar scenario , but i just dont understand the benefit that the wifi is giving in the scenario. what im trying to say if youre hitting your max bandwith ACROSS the network, whats Wifi going for you? I have a 5ghz router and i can switch between connections when using wifi and sometimes i get a better speed than the standard but ive not ben able to pinpoint whats happening to cause that Seems random. Sometime the 5ghz connection is so slow despite nothing else consuming bandwidth. Interesting subject. I don't recall anyone saying cables are obsolete, but I might have missed something in the thread. What I have said is very specific to using wiring a smart TV and expecting the best performance. Given you're limited to the max speed of the the built in NICs on those TVs which are generally 100Mbps even for the top end consumer models - I'm actually not sure of any TVs that have 1Gbps NICs - but the last one I bought was a 2020 LG CX. That might not be a problem for streaming Netflix, in which case go for it. It is a problem when streaming high quality files over a local network that exceed 100Mbps (i.e. Plex, Kodi, Emby) that's where you run into problems and you get buffering despite the "Oh I have cat-6 to the TV". Hell I've seen people use cat-7 into a TV.... absolutely zero benefit because the hardware is limited to 100Mbps. But you know, people will continue to think cabling their TV will result in better performance, because you would expect that to be true, but TV manufacturers continue to save cents by using 100Mbps NICs. It also has nothing to do with your internet connection speed, this is an issue related to local network media only. You're not saturating your external network connection slinging media around locally. Absolutely none of this says, 'don't install network points to your TV location" - that's still important for future proofing and any other devices you might want to use. It is to point out, that contrary to expectations, wiring your current TV can actually lead to performance issues. It's also kind of silly to buy a new TV and then spend another $500 on an additional media player because you want to wire your TV, when there's a perfectly acceptable solution. And frankly, if you're building a house, aside from the wired network you should be planning for a robust WiFi network that doesn't rely on a WiFI router supplied by your ISP as well. Re: Home networking future proofing 27Mar 05, 2022 10:25 am dga But you know, people will continue to think cabling their TV will result in better performance, because you would expect that to be true, but TV manufacturers continue to save cents by using 100Mbps NICs. The thing is that for 99% of people it actually will result in better performance. And the 1% that needs better performance than 100Mb port can provide don't need the advice because they already have enough knowledge to decide what's best for themselves and they would be well aware of this TV limitation, as well as how they can get around it. Re: Home networking future proofing 28Mar 05, 2022 7:17 pm A tv manufacturer uses a100mbps ethernet port because they know that the 4k display will never need more bandwidth than that. Even most 8k will pass happily through a 100mbps port though gb is preferred. A good wifi setup is important but running cable to anything that you can is still the best option. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Home networking future proofing 29Mar 05, 2022 7:23 pm We've included two data cables in our tender and this is purely hardwire the additional mesh wifi access points, this should give us strong wifi on all three levels of the house. Re: Home networking future proofing 30Mar 05, 2022 7:40 pm TrickyRickyDoo We've included two data cables in our tender and this is purely hardwire the additional mesh wifi access points, this should give us strong wifi on all three levels of the house. Most mesh wifi doesn't need additional data points. They join together and use 2.4 and 5khz wifi for there backhaul not a wired connection. The Lan ports on the satellites are so you can connect a wired device to the satellite. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Home networking future proofing 31Mar 05, 2022 7:43 pm chippy TrickyRickyDoo We've included two data cables in our tender and this is purely hardwire the additional mesh wifi access points, this should give us strong wifi on all three levels of the house. Most mesh wifi doesn't need additional data points. They join together and use 2.4 and 5khz wifi for there backhaul not a wired connection. The Lan ports on the satellites are so you can connect a wired device to the satellite. It doesn't, however I was concerned with our house design that unless we'd need a greater number of mesh devices to provide a strong signal across the entire house. I've specifically purchased mesh access points that can be hard wired. Probably overkill, but the cost of two data cables was negligible. Re: Home networking future proofing 32Mar 06, 2022 8:41 am dga Noname yeah im confused about the Wifi recommendation too - Considder this - You have a 100MBT FTTP connection. Its off peak and you are accessing max theoretical speeds. Youre using your tv to stream some netflix via 5ghz wifi and someone else on the network starts tormenting a stack of movies to their computer via the wired connection in their bedroom- How is the bandwith thats being afforded to the 5Ghz wifi not impacted when the source connection is all the same? You will experience the same degredation over cable sof course during a similar scenario , but i just dont understand the benefit that the wifi is giving in the scenario. what im trying to say if youre hitting your max bandwith ACROSS the network, whats Wifi going for you? I have a 5ghz router and i can switch between connections when using wifi and sometimes i get a better speed than the standard but ive not ben able to pinpoint whats happening to cause that Seems random. Sometime the 5ghz connection is so slow despite nothing else consuming bandwidth. Interesting subject. I don't recall anyone saying cables are obsolete, but I might have missed something in the thread. What I have said is very specific to using wiring a smart TV and expecting the best performance. Given you're limited to the max speed of the the built in NICs on those TVs which are generally 100Mbps even for the top end consumer models - I'm actually not sure of any TVs that have 1Gbps NICs - but the last one I bought was a 2020 LG CX. That might not be a problem for streaming Netflix, in which case go for it. It is a problem when streaming high quality files over a local network that exceed 100Mbps (i.e. Plex, Kodi, Emby) that's where you run into problems and you get buffering despite the "Oh I have cat-6 to the TV". Hell I've seen people use cat-7 into a TV.... absolutely zero benefit because the hardware is limited to 100Mbps. But you know, people will continue to think cabling their TV will result in better performance, because you would expect that to be true, but TV manufacturers continue to save cents by using 100Mbps NICs. It also has nothing to do with your internet connection speed, this is an issue related to local network media only. You're not saturating your external network connection slinging media around locally. Absolutely none of this says, 'don't install network points to your TV location" - that's still important for future proofing and any other devices you might want to use. It is to point out, that contrary to expectations, wiring your current TV can actually lead to performance issues. It's also kind of silly to buy a new TV and then spend another $500 on an additional media player because you want to wire your TV, when there's a perfectly acceptable solution. And frankly, if you're building a house, aside from the wired network you should be planning for a robust WiFi network that doesn't rely on a WiFI router supplied by your ISP as well. There was a post saying it was the 21 century and cable is pretty much obsolete, which I found a little amusing. I myself would rather opt for a little lower tech TV to spend a little on an external device, but that is just me as I find most TV's still have clunky OS's and would prefer to have something else that has the features that I am after rather than rely on the TV's smarts. I can see why TV's haven't bothered also with upgraded NIC's as most people would never need it at all, and most of the people that do want it would be buying something else to get what they want. I do think the problem is that people have bought way to much into the speeds they market for WiFi and don't think about all the downsides to using wireless over wired. They see the speed on the box and just assume it is better, but then don't realise the cons of latency etc. and the fact its best case speeds and there are many things that will affect said speeds. They then are a little disappointed that they aren't getting the 10GbE speeds advertised on the box. You are also limited to what wireless your end devices use also, even if you have the latest and greatest AP's you may have a bunch of devices that are a few tech's behind. I would go on record to say that CAT 7 is a complete waste of money in a home environment, hell I work in a Data Centre environment and we have not even moved to CAT 7 for our structured cabling..... I would dare say most people would not notice the difference between CAT5e and CAT 6 in most home use cases. I do agree you should also setup a good wireless also but I wouldn't go as far to say you should be putting everything on it over wired. TrickyRickyDoo chippy TrickyRickyDoo We've included two data cables in our tender and this is purely hardwire the additional mesh wifi access points, this should give us strong wifi on all three levels of the house. Most mesh wifi doesn't need additional data points. They join together and use 2.4 and 5khz wifi for there backhaul not a wired connection. The Lan ports on the satellites are so you can connect a wired device to the satellite. It doesn't, however I was concerned with our house design that unless we'd need a greater number of mesh devices to provide a strong signal across the entire house. I've specifically purchased mesh access points that can be hard wired. Probably overkill, but the cost of two data cables was negligible. Is there a reason you went with a mesh system if you are running cables in the first place? I don't really see the use of mesh if you are able to run cables to these places. I would say mesh is more suited for someone that isn't able to run cables like in a rental and wants a connection somewhere with no cable and poor wireless. Which if you can run cables to these areas it kinda makes it obsolete as you can run a cable to the device there or run a cable to install another AP. Re: Home networking future proofing 33Mar 06, 2022 9:08 am MrSober dga Noname yeah im confused about the Wifi recommendation too - Considder this - You have a 100MBT FTTP connection. Its off peak and you are accessing max theoretical speeds. Youre using your tv to stream some netflix via 5ghz wifi and someone else on the network starts tormenting a stack of movies to their computer via the wired connection in their bedroom- How is the bandwith thats being afforded to the 5Ghz wifi not impacted when the source connection is all the same? You will experience the same degredation over cable sof course during a similar scenario , but i just dont understand the benefit that the wifi is giving in the scenario. what im trying to say if youre hitting your max bandwith ACROSS the network, whats Wifi going for you? I have a 5ghz router and i can switch between connections when using wifi and sometimes i get a better speed than the standard but ive not ben able to pinpoint whats happening to cause that Seems random. Sometime the 5ghz connection is so slow despite nothing else consuming bandwidth. Interesting subject. I don't recall anyone saying cables are obsolete, but I might have missed something in the thread. What I have said is very specific to using wiring a smart TV and expecting the best performance. Given you're limited to the max speed of the the built in NICs on those TVs which are generally 100Mbps even for the top end consumer models - I'm actually not sure of any TVs that have 1Gbps NICs - but the last one I bought was a 2020 LG CX. That might not be a problem for streaming Netflix, in which case go for it. It is a problem when streaming high quality files over a local network that exceed 100Mbps (i.e. Plex, Kodi, Emby) that's where you run into problems and you get buffering despite the "Oh I have cat-6 to the TV". Hell I've seen people use cat-7 into a TV.... absolutely zero benefit because the hardware is limited to 100Mbps. But you know, people will continue to think cabling their TV will result in better performance, because you would expect that to be true, but TV manufacturers continue to save cents by using 100Mbps NICs. It also has nothing to do with your internet connection speed, this is an issue related to local network media only. You're not saturating your external network connection slinging media around locally. Absolutely none of this says, 'don't install network points to your TV location" - that's still important for future proofing and any other devices you might want to use. It is to point out, that contrary to expectations, wiring your current TV can actually lead to performance issues. It's also kind of silly to buy a new TV and then spend another $500 on an additional media player because you want to wire your TV, when there's a perfectly acceptable solution. And frankly, if you're building a house, aside from the wired network you should be planning for a robust WiFi network that doesn't rely on a WiFI router supplied by your ISP as well. There was a post saying it was the 21 century and cable is pretty much obsolete, which I found a little amusing. I myself would rather opt for a little lower tech TV to spend a little on an external device, but that is just me as I find most TV's still have clunky OS's and would prefer to have something else that has the features that I am after rather than rely on the TV's smarts. I can see why TV's haven't bothered also with upgraded NIC's as most people would never need it at all, and most of the people that do want it would be buying something else to get what they want. I do think the problem is that people have bought way to much into the speeds they market for WiFi and don't think about all the downsides to using wireless over wired. They see the speed on the box and just assume it is better, but then don't realise the cons of latency etc. and the fact its best case speeds and there are many things that will affect said speeds. They then are a little disappointed that they aren't getting the 10GbE speeds advertised on the box. You are also limited to what wireless your end devices use also, even if you have the latest and greatest AP's you may have a bunch of devices that are a few tech's behind. I would go on record to say that CAT 7 is a complete waste of money in a home environment, hell I work in a Data Centre environment and we have not even moved to CAT 7 for our structured cabling..... I would dare say most people would not notice the difference between CAT5e and CAT 6 in most home use cases. I do agree you should also setup a good wireless also but I wouldn't go as far to say you should be putting everything on it over wired. TrickyRickyDoo chippy Most mesh wifi doesn't need additional data points. They join together and use 2.4 and 5khz wifi for there backhaul not a wired connection. The Lan ports on the satellites are so you can connect a wired device to the satellite. It doesn't, however I was concerned with our house design that unless we'd need a greater number of mesh devices to provide a strong signal across the entire house. I've specifically purchased mesh access points that can be hard wired. Probably overkill, but the cost of two data cables was negligible. Is there a reason you went with a mesh system if you are running cables in the first place? I don't really see the use of mesh if you are able to run cables to these places. I would say mesh is more suited for someone that isn't able to run cables like in a rental and wants a connection somewhere with no cable and poor wireless. Which if you can run cables to these areas it kinda makes it obsolete as you can run a cable to the device there or run a cable to install another AP. Yep, good question. For me it was more about having options. If the mesh works well without being hard wired then I can use the Ethernet connections for other uses. I like to have choices rather than be left in a situation where we have poor internet speeds in different areas of the house. If the Ethernet connection is necessary then it’s only a few hundred dollars wasted. So our setup being, NBN comes into a cupboard on the top floor and Ethernet cables to my home office on the middle floor and the home theatre on the bottom floor. Re: Home networking future proofing 34May 20, 2023 12:48 am Here’s what we did: - Hardwired PoE WiFi access points on ceiling - Hardwired PoE outside security cameras. - Cat6 points to all tv / media areas - Cat6 points to all rooms including bedrooms etc. - Extra Cat6 points to offices & lounges. - All leads back to 6RU rack in garage - All UniFi equipment (cameras, access points, doorbell , network switches and network router) You basically want to hardwire anything you can / that doesn’t move, especially anything that is chatty or involves media. Then that frees up wifi network for all other devices. Extra network points also gives flexibility to add in-wall wifi points later. Wifi access points should be hardwired. Mesh networking is good if no other alternative but shouldn’t be the solution in a new build. Re: Home networking future proofing 35Jun 17, 2023 8:38 pm I've been reviewing my electrical plan ever since my current internet has been horrible, and I'm worried we'll have dial-up speeds in the new house. We currently have the connection point for the NBN, and 4 of these data pointshttps://www.sparkydirect.com.au/p/CLIPSAL-ICONIC-40RJ45SMA6C-TN-RJ45-scoket-cat6-mechanismWe have 1 in the master bedroom, 1 in the formal sitting room, 1 for the family room TV, and 1 in the study. I had planned to have some mesh systems like TP-links connect to some of these points. But the study, formal sitting room, and master bedroom are straight after one other, so basically we have all points on one part of the house, and bugger all for the rest. I have a few questions about your final set up. You mentioned you suggest to hard wire everything that doesn't move. I remember reading ethernet cables had a 100m max length before the signal deteriorates. Is there something similar that happens if you split a port? For example, the one for the TV area needs to service the TV, PS5, Xbox, etc. Do you buy an adapter of sorts? Do you lose quality of connection if you do this? I think what will be handover to us will be the connection to the NBN box, and then 4 ethernet cables that run from next to the NBN box to the 4 data points. I may be horribly mistaken, of course. If I am, please tell me! My initial plan was to have the NBN box connected to the main deco (I have X50s), and then connec the satellite decos to the 4 x data points, and since the decos have a couple of additional ethernet connections on the back, and I understand this back haul option results in no signal loss, to connect things like the tv and ps5 to the deco directly. When you say you installed cat6 points to all Tv/media areas, how many individual points did you get? And when you say 'all leads back to 6RU rack in the garage' is that because your NBN box will sit in the garage? I am building a 45sq house, and the builder charges through the eyes for any bit of network, but I can't imagine retro-fitting cables after handover is drastically cheaper since running the cables once the walls are in would be a pain. Re: Home networking future proofing 36Jun 18, 2023 8:36 pm I wouldn't worry about loss on cables over 100m as your average house would rarely have a run this long. For places that might only have 1 port but multiple devices a cheap unmanaged switch etc would be the go, yes it will be limited to the 1GbE connection coming in but rarely will you have more than 1 device that would saturate that. If I had the time I would have asked the Builder if I could run my own Network or if they said no have my own people do the work as they only ever use electricians to run it which majority have no idea how they should be run etc and try to use as least amount of cable as possible. Which was crazy as our guys charged a high price for that, so I myself choose to ran at least 1 cable to everywhere I thought I would ever want one and chose to then run extras after moving in. At least that way I had a run already done that I could just fish new cables through.. In most cases you will have some random location that they decide to put the NBN box and yes usually they will put the limited included network they provide to this area without much thought of end devices etc. I knew what I wanted so they originally had the plans to put NBN on a wall in the garage, so I had them move it into a small storage room off my garage and run all the network/cameras back to this spot. I should have been a little more clear of how I wanted it as I ended up with way too much power etc on the wall here as they just moved everything into there rather than cull some of the GPO's I wouldn't need and still had the CCTV and Network on wall outlets rather than leave in the roof for me to bring down on a cable tray. I would say thought I assume it would be way cheaper for them to install cable now than it will be getting someone to do at a later time if you are worried, just knowing how much extra work will be involved after everything is covered. It really makes me wonder why they think it is okay to charge so much to run some CAT6 cables the way they run it at framing stage..... Re: Home networking future proofing 37Jun 20, 2023 7:22 am speaking from experience, we had ports installed everywhere we expected an entertainment system such as TV/console etc. good to have but have since moved in around 3 months and never needed to use it. if you buy a half decent gaming router there is no need for wires. i have my router sitting on the floor in the front part of the house on a double storey and can still have strong 2.4/5ghz connection on the first floor the furthest away from the router. unless your network is running something hardcore that requires that strong network bandwidth a hard wired connection is a thing of the past. yeh you'll get a drop out here and there buts its negligible Re: Home networking future proofing 38Jun 20, 2023 7:14 pm If you don't mind me asking, what speed drop do you have if you connect as far as possible to your wifi vs if you connect to the ethernet cable? Re: Home networking future proofing 39Jun 20, 2023 7:17 pm MrSober I wouldn't worry about loss on cables over 100m as your average house would rarely have a run this long. For places that might only have 1 port but multiple devices a cheap unmanaged switch etc would be the go, yes it will be limited to the 1GbE connection coming in but rarely will you have more than 1 device that would saturate that. If I had the time I would have asked the Builder if I could run my own Network or if they said no have my own people do the work as they only ever use electricians to run it which majority have no idea how they should be run etc and try to use as least amount of cable as possible. Which was crazy as our guys charged a high price for that, so I myself choose to ran at least 1 cable to everywhere I thought I would ever want one and chose to then run extras after moving in. At least that way I had a run already done that I could just fish new cables through.. In most cases you will have some random location that they decide to put the NBN box and yes usually they will put the limited included network they provide to this area without much thought of end devices etc. I knew what I wanted so they originally had the plans to put NBN on a wall in the garage, so I had them move it into a small storage room off my garage and run all the network/cameras back to this spot. I should have been a little more clear of how I wanted it as I ended up with way too much power etc on the wall here as they just moved everything into there rather than cull some of the GPO's I wouldn't need and still had the CCTV and Network on wall outlets rather than leave in the roof for me to bring down on a cable tray. I would say thought I assume it would be way cheaper for them to install cable now than it will be getting someone to do at a later time if you are worried, just knowing how much extra work will be involved after everything is covered. It really makes me wonder why they think it is okay to charge so much to run some CAT6 cables the way they run it at framing stage..... Network design is beyond me. How does someone like me get an accurate idea of what I want and where? Re: Home networking future proofing 40Jun 20, 2023 7:36 pm So yeah a few thoughts - Don't worry about the 100m limits etc. - Anywhere you've got a single port, you can connect a small network switch and 'split' it into more ports if needed. I personally just put one port everywhere I wanted networking. But some people recommend at least 2 incase one somehow fails (which would be rare). - Avoid using mesh wifi points. You want your wifi access points connected to your router via ethernet. If you're going to install any network points at all I'd say having hard wired wifi access points is the most important. If you have a number of wifi points across the home (upstairs and down) and they all connect back to the router via ethernet then you'll at least have a solid wifi network setup without too many dead spots. In terms of priority and ROI of things this is what I'd do (further down the list , less important): - Network points for WiFi access points. 2 - 4 Wifi Access Points across the home (upstairs and down). So all can connect back to the router via ethernet. - Network point to any bandwidth heavy devices (tvs, media streaming devices etc).This takes load off the wifi network, which for devices that don't move and use a lot of bandwidth is usually pretty good bang for buck. - Network point to any study or bedroom areas to connect computers. Good if wanting / needing to quickly transfer files around the house. - Network points to any extra areas you think might want to connect any of the above in the future. - Double up network points for redundancy / extra devices. Then one last thing to consider is network points to anywhere you might want a security camera, as best systems are ones that connect cameras via ethernet. Scientists have used random matrix theory to demonstrate theoretically that the neutrino mass hierarchy can be explained mathematically. When a substance is fragmented… 21 20639 Brass fly wire, you will need to cut it, shape it and jam it into brick slots 1 7450 thanks Chippy, i hope they have applied sealer but i am doubt to be honest, so i am gonna do this job after handover. 8 16225 |