Our Windosr 47 with Porter Davis

Brickie · Jun 16, 2009 4:45 pm

I did half the brickwork on a PD single story house, got to the second lift and checked all the window heads so I could fit the lintels only to find that they all varied by as much as 25mm from window to window.

All the window heads were supposed to be the same height, its very hard to adjust brickwork 5mm never mind 25mm, some of the windows were within 1200mm of each other.

I rang the supervisor who came out and told me to "just" do it, I told the boys to pack up and I told the supervisor to get his carpenter back to fix the windows.
We left the job.
The supervisor told me to just do it again, I refused as I knew it would come back and bight me on the bum.

He told me to bugger off and dont go back his job, which I did.

Next day I went back with the camera only to find other brickies finishing it off, they told me they get to finish off lots of jobs for PD after the initial brickies refuse to do any * stuff.

Sad isnt it.

I even had to fight to get paid, I eventually got paid.

The job was in Jorjenson Doreen..

me,he&little she · Jun 16, 2009 5:15 pm

I am speechless Liana and Rob. Your blog is an incredible story having just read it from start to most recent post. The consistent blunders and cover-ups you have had to endure...well done on remaining remotely sane.

I don't know what to say, but wish you the best of luck in getting your outstanding issues rectified in your latest report. Keep fighting and don’t accept something you know isn’t right.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 5:16 pm

Purple Patch

Hi Liana,
I thought we were having a bad run with M3tricon, however what has been done at your house has left me gobsmacked. I have been dealing with the problem solver from M. Her title is a "Customer Advocate" and she has been very helpful in having our issues addressed at a higher level. It may be helpful if PD has a similar person.
We took handover after four attempts. I stopped posting after out third separate water leak into the dining room ceiling, as I am just over our new house.
Hang in there as at the end of the day you will get a great house and time will fade the memories of all the hassles you had getting there.

Good luck

PP

Thanks for your well-wishes, PP.
I just hope the bad memories fade before my sanity does. :::

You know, I said the very same thing to PD the other day: They need a dedicated person to handle the builds that are in trouble.

I can't see the point of having the head honchos (the "suits") attending weekly site meetings. And it certainly hasn't helped our cause other than "executive decisions" were made much faster, but the workmanship is still crap, so we've achieved nothing, other than more rectifications.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 5:28 pm

Moonos21

Can't believe the ** workmanship. How could your ss allow any of those things through. We're due to sign our contract in July, but are having second thoughts after seeing the problems you've had. I would seriously lose it and end up getting myself into trouble.

I know I shouldn't try to justify why our build was poorly supervised and managed, but I do understand that these problems start from the top and work their way down the food chain. The supervisors have no choice but manage far too many houses at the one time. That is what's expected of them. They're lucky to get around to seeing each house once a fortnight. I put the blame firstly on PD senior management for comprimising quality for quantity.

Secondly, I put the blame on PD senior management again.
Good tradies command good wages.
Having spoken to many of the tradies on our build - high volume builders (not just PD, but all of them), won't pay decent wages. So ... you pay peanuts, you get monkeys!

We got monkeys :::

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 5:35 pm

Caroline

Porter Davis is not the only nightmare I am building with Henl3y and I physically can't cope its a constant battle.

I will continue to read Liana's blog... i just had to comment.

It's happening with all of the high volume builders.
Our experience and our discussions with the tradies, has revealed that the builders start cost-cutting with the tradies.
Big mistake! Big! HUGE!
What's the outcome?
The decent tradies won't work for less than what they are worth, so they go elsewhere.
So who are we left with to build our house?
The ones that work for half the wages?
Why?
Because their workmanship is worth that little to them.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 5:41 pm

brittany

I'm in the slide show still in the pictures of the spa and my heart is bleeding for you. Our handover has been very exciting and I can see that yours if full of tears and frustration and that sucks. Very poor form Porter Davis.

Hi Brittany,
You bet there's been tears, but what doesn't kill you, drives you to drink ... errrr... I mean ... makes you stronger. ::wink::

I love reading and hearing success stories. It gives me hope that at some point soon, we too will feel the same excitement.

reaver · Jun 16, 2009 5:48 pm

Hey Liana, did you guys used an independent inspector during construction? We're thinking of hiring one and wanted to see if they add any value at all.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 5:59 pm

petal

Hi Liana - I followed your blog for quite some time, but haven't really been following blogs since we finished our build.

First, as everyone else has said, I was (and still am) constantly amazed at your incredibly positive outlook -

to you for that - I think I would have fallen in a heap, but you have done so well to get on with the job and look towards getting everything rectified, then finished! And, your posts, although filled with angst-ridden incidents, were a constant source of laughter for me - your witty, pithy, incredibly clever writing is just fantastic!!!

I don't know if you remember, but as Jo said, we had an absolutely useless SS (who was the THIRD one allocated to us) who was basically never there, and pretty much uncontactable - by us, and the tradies working on our job, as well as others. The last one we had was fantastic, and we felt like he was actually working for us, but if he hadn't taken over...welll, I shudder to think what would have happened.

I'm sure all of us wish we could wave a magic wand for you. I don't know what to say - other than my absolute best thoughts go out to you, and I just hope everything is fixed to perfection, and that you end up with a wonderful family home that you love ....and make sure you send PD the invoice for the vodka and red wine ::wink::

Hello Petal!
Wow ... I DO remember you build. I followed your blog throughout and at the time, our build was going reasonably well.
By the time your house was finished, our blog started reading like yours. LOL!

I really used to enjoy writing my blog posts and I always wanted to keep it as light-hearted and entertaining as possible.
There's still some fuel in this tank. So watch this space. :sh:

I'm SO pleased your build finished up on a positive note and that you are happy in your new home.
There was a time there when I thought the traumas would never end for you.
But then they came to our place and here I am.

Just for a laugh ... I actually sent PD managmenet the link to purchase a bottle of Grange ($499) online, and asked if I could please have that at handover instead of the pissy cooler bag they give out with the keys. By the time we get to handover, I'll be immune to vodka and standard red wine!

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 6:11 pm

reaver

Hey Liana, did you guys used an independent inspector during construction? We're thinking of hiring one and wanted to see if they add any value at all.

ABSOLUTELY!
We've had 3 independent inspections and for the cost of each inspection, we've saved ourselves thousands upon thousands!

I know people are often a bit dubious about the value of independent inspections and how their builder will perceive it.
The fact is, when you build a house, you are investing not only mega-bucks, you're building a life for yourself ... a future.

For us, the independent inspections not only gave us knowledge and understanding, it gave us peace of mind that an expert had examined our house and that his report is THE main tool to get things done properly.

The added advantage is that if things ever get messy and you need to lodge a claim with VCAT or any other judicial system, the independent inspector's report becomes a key expert witness document.

For us, the reports were the most powerful tool in absolutely every aspect.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 6:20 pm

reaver

I've seen some posts where people witheld payment during a particular stage until all the issues got fixed.

Yes, we're one of those who withheld payment until all issues for that particular stage of the build, were rectified in accordance with legislative requirements.

We got our Fix Stage invoice on 17th October 2008.
It's still not paid.

But if you're going to withhold payment, you need to have an air-tight case.
Independent Inspection Reports that reveal defects or items requiring rectification, in order for that stage to be completed in accordance with legislative requirements, is the main tool you need to withhold payment, because the proof is in the report.

Your word against theirs does not work and has no legal weight.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 6:30 pm

TimmyDunlop

Wow Liana, Just went through your blog, what a terrible ordeal you've been though.

I must say how calm you've been till now is amazing. Have you thought about escalating this to VCAT? Even going to the press about this. I bit of public exposure would make get in line.

We chose to by-pass VCAT for a very good reason.
VCAT can only rule on what the builder has to rectify, based on the case submitted to them and expert evidence (independent inspection reports). This option is good if you have "disputed items" (ie. the builder has said they will not rectify certain items).

In our case, we have chosen a different path, based on the advice of our legal team.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 6:38 pm

georgie

Firstly Liana, I looked at your photos and I can not understand how the builders don't see any problems with their work! I really feel for you!!

Secondly, and this is a generalisation, it seems most of the horry stories of PD clients seem to come from those building the bigger houses. Yourself, Kek, Petal and another blog I have read building the Brookvale have all had a rough patch (yours is still going) but most of the smaller houses seem to go up pretty quickly and of a much better build quality. (Having said that Beejay's bricks on his 21sq house are pretty crappy)

As I said thats my perception and I haven't read everyone's blog so I could be completely wrong!

I just hope our build with PD goes well and some of your issues get resolved asap

You've summed it up perfectly, Georgie.
It seems very apparent to me that the bigger the house and the more upgrades and variations you have, the higher the risk for cock-ups and ending up in litigation.

I know for a fact that with our build, we had quite a few variations (additional walls, doors, etc) and almost NONE of those variations ever made their way down the line to the tradies. This has been a consistent flaw with the PD process of handling variations. Our tradies were always working from superseded drawings and therefore not aware of variations.

From what I have read on the blogs and heard from other PD customers, the pattern seems to be:
The bigger the house, the bigger the margin for error.

Liana · Jun 16, 2009 6:46 pm

Brickie

I did half the brickwork on a PD single story house, got to the second lift and checked all the window heads so I could fit the lintels only to find that they all varied by as much as 25mm from window to window.

All the window heads were supposed to be the same height, its very hard to adjust brickwork 5mm never mind 25mm, some of the windows were within 1200mm of each other.

I rang the supervisor who came out and told me to "just" do it, I told the boys to pack up and I told the supervisor to get his carpenter back to fix the windows.
We left the job.
The supervisor told me to just do it again, I refused as I knew it would come back and bight me on the bum.

He told me to bugger off and dont go back his job, which I did.

Next day I went back with the camera only to find other brickies finishing it off, they told me they get to finish off lots of jobs for PD after the initial brickies refuse to do any * stuff.

Sad isnt it.

I even had to fight to get paid, I eventually got paid.

The job was in Jorjenson Doreen..

Good on you!
If only there were more like you.
We had the same situation on our build, on numerous occassions - tradies being told to "just do it" even though they knew it was sub-standard and not acceptable.
In our case, most of the tradies just "fixed it" and that's why we've had so many issues that have had to be rectified over and over again.

And as each rectification takes place, its another "just do it" job.
That's why this build is in the mess that it's in.

Keep up the great attitude towards your trade and your workmanship.
This is why high volume builders cannot retain good trades, because they expect quantity above quality from you.

Don't give it to them!

King willy · Jun 16, 2009 6:48 pm

Liana

I don't want this thread to be a "builder bashing" but I am so frustrated to read sugar-coated versions on blogs (my blog started off that way too) and people not speaking up and telling it how it really is. And yes, I withheld much of the detail of our experience, until I couldn't stay silent any longer.

I feel your frustration & disappointment. However, I commend you on speaking out & telling people the truth about what has happened to you. Unfortunately it happens to many many others who just don’t want to rock the boat or upset other forum member who is building with the same company. I know this is no consolation to you but I find I learn more from people who speak out like you and let owners know the realily of building.

I truly hope you find a solution to you situation and things improve.

All the best.

KW……………

haywgl · Jun 16, 2009 7:41 pm

Another followed of your blog Liana.

You are amazing

The wit, humour, honesty and dignity in which you write about your ordeal is amazing.

I don't have words to describe how truly sorry I am for what has happened to what is supposed to be your dream home

Caroline · Jun 16, 2009 10:31 pm

Liana

Caroline

Porter Davis is not the only nightmare I am building with Henl3y and I physically can't cope its a constant battle.

I will continue to read Liana's blog... i just had to comment.

It's happening with all of the high volume builders.
Our experience and our discussions with the tradies, has revealed that the builders start cost-cutting with the tradies.
Big mistake! Big! HUGE!
What's the outcome?
The decent tradies won't work for less than what they are worth, so they go elsewhere.
So who are we left with to build our house?
The ones that work for half the wages?
Why?
Because their workmanship is worth that little to them.

I just finished reading your blog. I cant believe what PD want you to accept.
I am thinking my house will be heading down the same road. I have 6 weeks till I am meant to get the keys and currently there is 26 defects picked up by my independant building inspector that my builder will not accept.
Now my issues are no little thing either, I am missing weep holes, articulation joints are put anywhere and not anything like the drawings, I have no fall on my window sills I mean nothing at, my door have ripples and I can go on and on.
I have had no choice but to submit a complaint to the BCVA and now I wait.

They also too away the builders toilet today so I guess every tradie and his dog will be peeing all over my so called new toilets! I don't even have the pleasure of christening my own loo....

I have a friend who is building with PD and he thinks everything is going fine so far but they just started. If I show him your blog I think he will freak out big time.

I should have bought a established house at least I know what defects I am buying into up front. I am so angry how builders can just take advanage of people.... ::angry::

houseofl · Jun 16, 2009 10:43 pm

Hi liana

Like everyone, I absolutely cannot belive the cr*p build you are enduring. I have NEVER seen anything like it. Are they blind? What does it take to get this company to stand up and take responsibility for the sh*t they are putting you through. Good on you for speaking up, you certainly have a right to YELL!!!

Where do you see this ending up? Are you making any progress? My blood is boiling for you, bring on the vodka.......get the ice......

JL

kek · Jun 16, 2009 11:02 pm

Nice to see you here, Liana... well, it would be nice if you had a happy story to tell, but you know what I mean...

Our build started with no SS. The one we were appointed resigned before site scrape - perhaps he had an inkling of what was coming.

The construction manager allegedly supervised the initial stages. :roll:

I doubt he actually went near the place. WE picked up three issues before the slab was even laid. Then the SS we were given was a knob. And the tradies? Crap framer, crap brickies, lazy brick-cleaner, possibly the worst plasterers in Melbourne (I mean, really: it should take FIVE attempts to plaster a ceiling and get it straight?).... Blah, blah, blah-de-blah. :roll:

Wonder why I began drinking again, ate piles of crap, and gained 6kg in as many weeks? My husband had a suspected heart attack (it wasn't, it was stress-related) and we were both sleepless, emotional wrecks. Oh, and my hair fell out in huge amounts - from stress, my GP says. Ya think? :roll:

Old news now. Caused us no end of misery and drama, blew out our build time by 100%, cost us money - regardless of the compensation they had to pay - and turned what should have been an exciting experience into a living hell. But we survived, we've moved on and are a little wiser and a bit more disillusioned.

I honestly thought that we had it bad. Then I started reading your blog... :shock:

I really hope things can be sorted. And quickly. And please don't lose your sense of humour.... :wink:

Minx · Jun 16, 2009 11:05 pm

I am so sorry to hear your story.
Honestly, I bet the suits don't have much if any construction experience other than their uni course.
Yes you are right about what the tradies get paid. They charge based on job with up front pricing schedule depending on the name of the house.
Let's just say that for the same job in the non project build sector my partner earns 2-3 times more doing the same job.
There are plenty of excellent and in demand tradies but none of those will work for half the price.
I do agree with you that project builders should pay their trades more. However without knwoing their overheads (sales, the suits, tradie wages and construction costs) doesn't seem it will happen.
Reality is that project builders provide affordable homes. We walked through a henle-y home that my relative is building in a display and he couldn't build it for less. In fact it would cost substantially more, like a luxury motor vehicle more.
My relative wanted a custom home but $$ couldn't afford it.
Through my partner, his work and mentors I have met some brilliant buildes who do a top notch job, their office is in their family home, their wives are their assistant and they are the ones onsite every day and personally order materials etc.

I hope that your build is resolved however I'm sure that your legal team has briefed you as what to expect from here, and what you will get.

Liana · Jun 17, 2009 7:19 am

King willy

Liana

However, I commend you on speaking out & telling people the truth about what has happened to you. Unfortunately it happens to many many others who just don’t want to rock the boat or upset other forum member who is building with the same company. I know this is no consolation to you but I find I learn more from people who speak out like you and let owners know the realily of building.
KW……………

I know this topic is bound to upset some people and I clearly don't want that to be the case.
As I said in my opening post, I don't want the focus of this topic to be a Porter Davis bashing or bagging, but rather an open discussion about what can and does go wrong with a build, without it either putting the fear of God in people or being construed as an attempt to discredit Porter Davis or any other builder.

I truly hope that people will see this topic as just one person wanting to share their experience with others, openly and honestly and as you aptly put it "learn more from people who speak out".

We all know what can go right, but let's discuss what can go wrong.