Browse Forums Building A New House 1 Jul 25, 2018 10:52 am Dear All, Arden Homes have placed a clause in their contracts under section 6 of the special conditions stating that you cannot have a private inspector unless they are registered. The Building Act in Victoria clearly states that you have the right to appoint any person to view your home. The builder cannot dictate who that is. See section 240. Section 19 of the Domestic Building Contracts Act states that the builder must allow access to your choice of person to inspect all parts of the works. Here is the best part. Section 132 of the Domestic Building Contracts Act states that the builder cannot contract out of the Act. The builder cannot place a condition in the contract that removes your rights. In others words it is your choice of who you use and the builder cannot place any conditions on you in the contract that remove your common law rights. You have the right to use a private inspector. What the builder has not disclosed is the Victorian Building Authority has no registration for private building inspectors that focus on Quality Assurance. It was removed from the regulations in the late 90's. Where to from here. There is a ACCC case REF 2430164 that you can add your voice to. You can email them at [url=infocentre@accc.gov.au]infocentre@accc.gov.au[/url] and quote the above case number. They are currently seeking more affected owners to ensure that they can take action. If you have a contract with this condition inserted, please assist all others and yourself by making sure that the builders contracting within the scope of the law. This current response by this builder may be due to the fact that a substantial error was found in one of there homes by the private inspector, missed twice by registered inspectors,missed continually by the builders unregistered and trades and had it not been for the private inspector, the home owner would have been none the wiser until failure occurred. This defect was of such a magnitude that the home had to be removed and restated. Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 2Jul 25, 2018 2:01 pm Have they backed down since when you've pointed these out? I don't think I have this in my contract however these may be for new contracts. I signed Nov. last year. Building the Votivo43 - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Building the Arden Votivo 43 Follow me here: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 3Jul 25, 2018 3:01 pm Dear g33, I only posted so that every body knows how to deal with them. This sort of stuff needs to be stamped out by the Government. The rules are set in place and the builders should work to them. It is in new contracts only. Good luck. Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 4Jul 25, 2018 3:04 pm Small Minds Dear g33, I only posted so that every body knows how to deal with them. This sort of stuff needs to be stamped out by the Government. The rules are set in place and the builders should work to them. It is in new contracts only. Good luck. Building the Votivo43 - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Building the Arden Votivo 43 Follow me here: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 5Jul 25, 2018 4:29 pm Dear G33, I don't have face Book. However you may report if you wish. Cheers Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 6Jul 25, 2018 4:52 pm Small Minds Dear G33, I don't have face Book. However you may report if you wish. Cheers Building the Votivo43 - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Building the Arden Votivo 43 Follow me here: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Arden Homes Inspectors 7Jul 26, 2018 6:25 pm Small Minds Dear g33, I only posted so that every body knows how to deal with them. This sort of stuff needs to be stamped out by the Government. The rules are set in place and the builders should work to them. It is in new contracts only. Good luck. Dear Small minds Thank you so much for sharing ! _________________________________________ Regards Manj https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88256 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 8Jul 28, 2018 5:03 pm Hi @Small Minds Totally agree - Kevin from NHI did my pre-plaster inspection and found around 20 frame structural issues which even Arden’s DJM surveyor missed or rather overlooked as per the engineering drawings. Probably only he managed to read the drawings - What point is registration if they cannot even read drawings. However can you please look at this slab photo and just tell is something wrong because Arden has not put hebel under my front door despite almost 5 months passing and PCI scheduled within a couple of days - mine concern why leave it so late. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ follow my build Arden homes Votivo 37 iin south east: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88622 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 9Jul 29, 2018 8:30 am Dear All, What they don't tell you is that the Building Manager, The Construction Manager, the Site Supervisor and the bulk of the trades have no licence or registration. One day they can be a sausage maker and the next day they are the Construction Manager or your Site Supervisor. This is the core fundamental reason why they don't like Kevin McDonald or Darren Love and their teams. They point out the massive issues that these unqualified people in exulted position of greatness hold. Don't trust them. Get a second opinion from a person that you trust that had the runs on the ground. Shame on you Mr Builder! Simple Minds Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 10Jul 29, 2018 1:02 pm Small Minds Dear All, What they don't tell you is that the Building Manager, The Construction Manager, the Site Supervisor and the bulk of the trades have no licence or registration. One day they can be a sausage maker and the next day they are the Construction Manager or your Site Supervisor. This is the core fundamental reason why they don't like Kevin McDonald or Darren Love and their teams. They point out the massive issues that these unqualified people in exulted position of greatness hold. Don't trust them. Get a second opinion from a person that you trust that had the runs on the ground. Shame on you Mr Builder! Simple Minds OMG I’m so fretting now ...wish we knew this earlier _________________________________________ Regards Manj https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88256 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 11Dec 08, 2018 4:41 am Just signed our prelim contract with ARDEN, is this the clause everybody is referring to? 12. The Builder acknowledges that the Owners(s) may elect to engage an independent inspector during construction of the home. Any inspection performed by an independent inspector will cause a delay to the construction time due to reasons including but not limited to the availability of the independent inspector and the time taken by the independent inspector to produce the report. Prior to the Builder reviewing any report provided by an independent inspector, the Owner(s) shall sign a variation to add 28 additional days to the Building Period. The Builder will not accept any report from an independent inspector who is not suitably qualified, thus the independent inspector must be a Registered Building Practitioner (RBP) with the Victorian Building Authority (VBA). Note: A pre-slab inspection must be scheduled and completed with the concrete subcontractor present, no later than 3:00PM on the day prior to the scheduled concrete pour. Due to prior bookings, the Builder will not delay the concrete slab pour if the relevant building surveyor's inspector has issued the necessary approval(s). 13. If the owner(s) elect to engage an independent inspector to inspect the construction of the home, it is essential for occupational health and safety reasons that the inspections are arranged directly with the Builder and all inspections are to be conducted under the supervision of the Builder. It is essential that the independent inspector engaged by the owner(s) first inspect the Builder's display home to assess the levels of workmanship and methods of construction. Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 12Dec 08, 2018 6:22 am Yes it is. It is not in other builders contracts and the 28 days extension each time you have a private inspector will eat into your damages if they exceed time to build. Even with all of these clauses in the contract, the legislation overrides them. Section 132 of the Domestic Building Contracts Act states that you cannot contract out of the home owners rights. They know this as it has been explained to them yet they still place this in their contracts. However they will use this clause to their advantage, not yours and that is why it is in the contract. In real terms, a good private inspector will document the facts of the build. If the builder has built in a manner that not compliant, why should the home owner be the victim of the builders actions? If the builder got it wrong, which happens, then the builder needs to fix it, not seek ways to make you second guess if you want to delay the build and go through the angst to get it fixed. If you love the design, then proceed. If you have the chance to move on, then do so. I would only work with a builder that was not looking to dictate the process that is your legal right without compromise. Alarm bells should be going off based on this one clause........ Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 13Dec 08, 2018 6:24 am I don't have this in my contract as I signed earlier last year. The last statement on clause 13 is pretty much useless, as the inspector's real value is what they look for underneath all the walls and trim - are they complete, according to building code, within tolerance, etc. They wouldn't see anything much apart from the exterior on display homes. On clause 12 - it is too one-sided. Adding 28 days for a 2-3 hour inspection is unjustified. I would accept it if you can add a clause saying the builder will agree to rectify any faults found by your independent inspector prior to issuing an invoice and proceeding with the next stage. That would give them enough to justify why they want to extend the time. Merely adding 28 days without committing to anything is useless. A+A+I Just signed our prelim contract with ARDEN, is this the clause everybody is referring to? 12. The Builder acknowledges that the Owners(s) may elect to engage an independent inspector during construction of the home. Any inspection performed by an independent inspector will cause a delay to the construction time due to reasons including but not limited to the availability of the independent inspector and the time taken by the independent inspector to produce the report. Prior to the Builder reviewing any report provided by an independent inspector, the Owner(s) shall sign a variation to add 28 additional days to the Building Period. The Builder will not accept any report from an independent inspector who is not suitably qualified, thus the independent inspector must be a Registered Building Practitioner (RBP) with the Victorian Building Authority (VBA). Note: A pre-slab inspection must be scheduled and completed with the concrete subcontractor present, no later than 3:00PM on the day prior to the scheduled concrete pour. Due to prior bookings, the Builder will not delay the concrete slab pour if the relevant building surveyor's inspector has issued the necessary approval(s). 13. If the owner(s) elect to engage an independent inspector to inspect the construction of the home, it is essential for occupational health and safety reasons that the inspections are arranged directly with the Builder and all inspections are to be conducted under the supervision of the Builder. It is essential that the independent inspector engaged by the owner(s) first inspect the Builder's display home to assess the levels of workmanship and methods of construction. Building the Votivo43 - viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Building the Arden Votivo 43 Follow me here: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88553 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 15Dec 08, 2018 6:52 am For the knowledge of all, this clause came in after a Private Inspector told the builder that they had a fault with the slab just after it was poured. The builder ignored the Private Inspector. The Private Inspector then proceeded to have the correct test done. The builder proceeded with the double story build. You can all imagine what the home owner was feeling as the builder refused to pay for or carry out the test that needed to be done on the slab. Thankfully the home owner stuck with the Private inspectors opinion and the test results returned a damming outcome. The builder had the roof on, the electrical in, the plumbing in and was proceeding to lockup when the results came back. The slab failed by a considerable margin. There was no way of fixing the issue in a complaint manner. Hence the builder had to demolish the home. The private inspector is well know and one of the most reputable companies operating. He has been doing this roll for over 15 years. Yet they refused to listen to his comments on the slab or concerns by the home owners as he was not registered. Bare in mind that there is no registration requirements in Victoria for Private Inspectors. The only registration would be Surveyor, however then the Building Act would prohibit the private inspector from site. See section 79 of the Building Act. All builders know this........ Here is the worst part. The registered builder, his unregistered staff, his unregistered supervisor, his unregistered construction manager and so on, the unregistered trades and the registered building Surveyor all missed this item during their inspections and quality assurance processes. So why would they state that only a registered inspector can do the inspections? Yet all the builder uses is unregistered trades and staff to the majority of the process. In technical terms, section 46.2 of the Building Act clearly states that a registered person under the VBA can look at the dwelling and pass it knowing that it does not comply. The Surveyors use this clause with regularity in VCAT when they approve a dwelling that is not compliant. It is all smoking mirrors. The builders are the winners and placing restrictions in contracts should be setting off alarm bells in any reasonable persons mind. Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 16Dec 08, 2018 6:54 am Treedance Just as a point of clarification - I have it in writing from Arden that this is 28 days for the entire build, not 28days per inspection/report You really need to lock this down as the clause states ANY inspection....... Please don't take any verbal assurances. They are only worth the paper they are written on......... Arden Homes Inspectors 17Dec 08, 2018 6:59 am Small Minds For the knowledge of all, this clause came in after a Private Inspector told the builder that they had a fault with the slab just after it was poured. The builder ignored the Private Inspector. The Private Inspector then proceeded to have the correct test done. The builder proceeded with the double story build. You can all imagine what the home owner was feeling as the builder refused to pay for or carry out the test that needed to be done on the slab. Thankfully the home owner stuck with the Private inspectors opinion and the test results returned a damming outcome. The builder had the roof on, the electrical in, the plumbing in and was proceeding to lockup when the results came back. The slab failed by a considerable margin. There was no way of fixing the issue in a complaint manner. Hence the builder had to demolish the home. The private inspector is well know and one of the most reputable companies operating. He has been doing this roll for over 15 years. Yet they refused to listen to his comments on the slab or concerns by the home owners as he was not registered. Bare in mind that there is no registration requirements in Victoria for Private Inspectors. The only registration would be Surveyor, however then the Building Act would prohibit the private inspector from site. See section 79 of the Building Act. All builders know this........ Here is the worst part. The registered builder, his unregistered staff, his unregistered supervisor, his unregistered construction manager and so on, the unregistered trades and the registered building Surveyor all missed this item during their inspections and quality assurance processes. So why would they state that only a registered inspector can do the inspections? Yet all the builder uses is unregistered trades and staff to the majority of the process. In technical terms, section 46.2 of the Building Act clearly states that a registered person under the VBA can look at the dwelling and pass it knowing that it does not comply. The Surveyors use this clause with regularity in VCAT when they approve a dwelling that is not compliant. It is all smoking mirrors. The builders are the winners and placing restrictions in contracts should be setting off alarm bells in any reasonable persons mind. Omg @Small Minds I’m really nervous now! Our slab and build is kind of unique and I hope they haven’t F$&& up! We have Sam Mamone inspecting ours and so far looks okay ! Gees I’m really feeling nervous to have picked them _________________________________________ Regards Manj https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88256 Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 18Dec 08, 2018 7:12 am Share these comments with the builder. See what they have to say. Then after the reply, ask is that person giving the reply registered? It will allow you to get a better handle on the information you are receiving. I need to go and place xmas lights up now as the boss is nagging me....... I will respond to other items later. Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 19Dec 08, 2018 7:19 am Small Minds Dear All, Arden Homes have placed a clause in their contracts under section 6 of the special conditions stating that you cannot have a private inspector unless they are registered. The Building Act in Victoria clearly states that you have the right to appoint any person to view your home. The builder cannot dictate who that is. See section 240. Section 19 of the Domestic Building Contracts Act states that the builder must allow access to your choice of person to inspect all parts of the works. Here is the best part. Section 132 of the Domestic Building Contracts Act states that the builder cannot contract out of the Act. The builder cannot place a condition in the contract that removes your rights. In others words it is your choice of who you use and the builder cannot place any conditions on you in the contract that remove your common law rights. You have the right to use a private inspector. What the builder has not disclosed is the Victorian Building Authority has no registration for private building inspectors that focus on Quality Assurance. It was removed from the regulations in the late 90's. Where to from here. There is a ACCC case REF 2430164 that you can add your voice to. You can email them at [url=infocentre@accc.gov.au]infocentre@accc.gov.au[/url] and quote the above case number. They are currently seeking more affected owners to ensure that they can take action. If you have a contract with this condition inserted, please assist all others and yourself by making sure that the builders contracting within the scope of the law. This current response by this builder may be due to the fact that a substantial error was found in one of there homes by the private inspector, missed twice by registered inspectors,missed continually by the builders unregistered and trades and had it not been for the private inspector, the home owner would have been none the wiser until failure occurred. This defect was of such a magnitude that the home had to be removed and restated. Excellent write up Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Arden Homes Inspectors 20Dec 08, 2018 7:25 am Treedance Just as a point of clarification - I have it in writing from Arden that this is 28 days for the entire build, not 28days per inspection/report Me too I have a variation to say 28 days extra on top of whole build if we get an inspector .. which we have agreed to with no hesitation since we want an independent expert opinion _________________________________________ Regards Manj https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=88256 That is a really good attitude Akin to you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 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