Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Dec 01, 2015 11:05 am Are there standards or tolerances for the level of finish that is acceptable after brick cleaning? I have multiple blow outs all around my house and the joints where affected now appear to be closer to a raked finish than a rolled finish. Just wondered if I had a leg to stand on and any chance of getting this rectified or not as so far, the builder doesn't seem to be taking any notice of my concern about the cleaned finish. Here's an example of what I'm referring to; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Brick Cleaning 2Dec 01, 2015 12:10 pm I have this exact same issue with my builder at the moment. We've got Austral Blackwood bricks and had some really bad bleeding into the mortar (looked like rust), so they cleaned the bricks agin, but this time it appears to have washed out the mortar and left us with a raked finish in places. I'm currently trying to get the issue rectified but the builder isn't really budging so I would love to know what people think. The following is from the VBA and might be of help: 3.11 Cleaning, mortar smears and stains Stains, mortar smears and damage caused by cleaning are defective if they are visible from a normal viewing position. 3.09 Voids and holes in mortar Voids and holes in mortar in masonry walls, with the exception of weepholes and vents, are defective if they are visible from a normal viewing position. 3.18 Raking of joints Unless documented otherwise, mortar joints in masonry units are defective if they are raked out to a depth of more than 10 mm or are not consistent in depth throughout. Re: Brick Cleaning 3Dec 01, 2015 12:47 pm tom_air I have this exact same issue with my builder at the moment. We've got Austral Blackwood bricks and had some really bad bleeding into the mortar (looked like rust), so they cleaned the bricks agin, but this time it appears to have washed out the mortar and left us with a raked finish in places. I'm currently trying to get the issue rectified but the builder isn't really budging so I would love to know what people think. The following is from the VBA and might be of help: 3.11 Cleaning, mortar smears and stains Stains, mortar smears and damage caused by cleaning are defective if they are visible from a normal viewing position. 3.09 Voids and holes in mortar Voids and holes in mortar in masonry walls, with the exception of weepholes and vents, are defective if they are visible from a normal viewing position. 3.18 Raking of joints Unless documented otherwise, mortar joints in masonry units are defective if they are raked out to a depth of more than 10 mm or are not consistent in depth throughout. These are also Blackwood bricks. I have read those items you've listed previously, but none of them are very specific, except the raking of joints one and these aren't intended to be raked joints, so does it even apply? And what is the definition of damage as visible from a normal viewing position? Re: Brick Cleaning 4Dec 01, 2015 1:07 pm I would think you would have a case if the rolled joints were specified for a marine/ harsh environment only. Possible causes? 1. Pressure water cleaning 2. Weak or inappropriate mortar mix 3. Excessive aeration/ chemical additives Can the mortar be easily scraped out with a coin? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Brick Cleaning 5Dec 01, 2015 3:18 pm StructuralBIMGuy Can the mortar be easily scraped out with a coin? Mine can, if I run my finger along the mortar you can see the sand fall away. Is there a DIY test that I can show the builder tomorrow that the mortar is too weak? I get the feeling that they will just say 'it is normal' unless I have something to specifically show them. Re: Brick Cleaning 7Dec 01, 2015 8:36 pm Sorry, No There are no DIY tests that I know of I generally gauge the mortar strength by my own on site scratch test and Microscopic examination, then if necessary, a sample for lab testing. From the close up there appears to be excessive aeration/voids possibly from air-entraining agents (ie lime and detergent..who knows at this point)? Check you engineering drawings with ref to AS3700 to find what mortar type was specified,mix strength (MPa), etc Some useful info here http://www.ccaa.com.au/imis_prod/docume ... tarTBR.pdf Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Brick Cleaning 8Dec 02, 2015 6:54 pm tom_air Here are a few pics of mine: Let me know how you go with yours and how the builder proceeds with rectification or not. Are you nearly at handover or has the brickwork only just been completed? If mine wasn't so noticeable then I wouldn't be concerned, but it's visible all over the ground floor and the photo I showed is taken right by the front door, so it sticks out like a sore thumb. Re: Brick Cleaning 9Dec 03, 2015 6:11 pm We're nearly at handover. Had a meeting yesterday and the building manager has agreed to fix the mortar so that it is cosmetically nice. They've also agreed to get Austral to come out and inspect the bricks and mortar and get their opinion on it all. I've had a look at the mortar today and they've made a start on fixing it up by sanding the mortar back to a nice rolled joint and overall it looks pretty good. There are some sections that need re-pointing due to blow outs, which they are going to do and then they will get the mortar colour matched to the existing mortar. The only thing that worries me is that I have a feeling the bricks are still going to bleed and the mortar will end up looking rusty again, but there isn't a whole lot we can do until it actually happens again. For anyone thinking of choosing Austral Blackwood, my advice would be to choose another brick and save yourself the headache Re: Brick Cleaning 10Dec 03, 2015 7:41 pm I went back through some photos I took of our builders show home before we signed on the line with them and the mortar quality is so much better than ours. If ours looked like these then I'd be more than happy with the result; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Brick Cleaning 11Dec 07, 2015 9:28 pm Hi all, I'm having some serious brick issues. Some serious damage to the bricks and mortar after they cleaned them last week. The builder has the brick rep coming out to assess. Builder did mention that they can paint the bricks but they are that badly damaged in parts i don't think that will cut it. The more I look at the brickwork the more issues I see. Articulation joints are disgraceful. Would it be unreasonable for me to expect a complete re-brick? I hope these images work.. first time poster Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Cheers Fryzy Re: Brick Cleaning 12Dec 08, 2015 6:10 am All those photos are the result of sloppy workmanship and inconsistent mortar by the brickies. The brick cleaner will generally use the weakest pressure to clean the bricks and adjust it up if he finds stubborn bits of mortar etc. You can hardly blame him for blowouts. Some of those perps are shocking. Stewie Re: Brick Cleaning 14Dec 12, 2015 11:16 am I am feeling your pain gents I have the same issues, I am still waiting on an outcome from my builder but my gut feels tell me it won't be fixed. See my story viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80660 G Re: Brick Cleaning 15Dec 13, 2015 9:55 pm Update: Builder had been good and got the brick rep out. He said that it's nothing to do with the brick. most likely the fault of the bricklayer causing the clean harder to remove excess mortar. Builder is looking at getting a company called Nawkaw to paint the problem bricks? Anyone heard of them and had much success? Re: Brick Cleaning 16Dec 14, 2015 6:38 am dojrude Are there standards or tolerances for the level of finish that is acceptable after brick cleaning? I have multiple blow outs all around my house and the joints where affected now appear to be closer to a raked finish than a rolled finish. Just wondered if I had a leg to stand on and any chance of getting this rectified or not as so far, the builder doesn't seem to be taking any notice of my concern about the cleaned finish. Here's an example of what I'm referring to; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Your photo shows acid pitting, where mortar has been allowed to set too hard before cleaning and acid concentration was increased to do it. In the photo above rolled joint is completely obliterated. The problem is usually worse with white cement. The bottom line is that if standard of appearance is lower than builder's display standard its defective. In Melbourne you can get brick mortar tested for around $450 Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Brick Cleaning 17Dec 14, 2015 1:13 pm building-expert dojrude Are there standards or tolerances for the level of finish that is acceptable after brick cleaning? I have multiple blow outs all around my house and the joints where affected now appear to be closer to a raked finish than a rolled finish. Just wondered if I had a leg to stand on and any chance of getting this rectified or not as so far, the builder doesn't seem to be taking any notice of my concern about the cleaned finish. Here's an example of what I'm referring to; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Your photo shows acid pitting, where mortar has been allowed to set too hard before cleaning and acid concentration was increased to do it. In the photo above rolled joint is completely obliterated. The problem is usually worse with white cement. The bottom line is that if standard of appearance is lower than builder's display standard its defective. In Melbourne you can get brick mortar tested for around $450 Thanks Building-expert. I did suspect they were faulty, but as ever the emphasis is always on me to prove they're wrong rather than admit their mistakes. Guess I'll have to go higher up the chain again if I don't get any joy with the site supervisor as we won't be accepting the current finish regardless of what he says. Re: Brick Cleaning 18Jan 19, 2016 2:19 pm Fryzy Update: Builder had been good and got the brick rep out. He said that it's nothing to do with the brick. most likely the fault of the bricklayer causing the clean harder to remove excess mortar. Builder is looking at getting a company called Nawkaw to paint the problem bricks? Anyone heard of them and had much success? How did you go with this Fryzy? What about NawKaw? Do you have any photos of the finished product? The reason I ask is that my builder has come back to me today and told me that sections of my mortar work will be ground out and redone to restore the rolled finish. NawKaw will then be used to do the colour matching. Just interested to know how yours turned out and if you're happy with the end result? Thanks. Re: Brick Cleaning 20Jan 20, 2016 9:10 am Fryzy Update: Builder had been good and got the brick rep out. He said that it's nothing to do with the brick. most likely the fault of the bricklayer causing the clean harder to remove excess mortar. Builder is looking at getting a company called Nawkaw to paint the problem bricks? Anyone heard of them and had much success? Painting doesn't solve your problem ? In fact painting the bricks and mortar makes things worse..long term The mortar joints will need to be scrapped and cleaned to a suitable depth and re-jointed. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs No, I even have sections of narrowness where the tiles won't slide up any further. When I manage some spare time, I might play around with the first DIY part of my… 7 4932 2 8358 |