Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Jan 13, 2016 5:45 pm Had pci today and found out from my independent building inspector that the light switches are not isolated and this needs to be fixed asap. The construction manager walked through with us and had never seen the device being used to detect this. Now if I had never hired a building inspector I'd never know and Hallmark Homes would have happily left them as is because the electrician certifies his own work. This has me worried because did he not check to make sure they are isolated? I had my suspicions about the electrical work very early on and even said the work should be independently inspected to which the building services manager scoffed at. Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 3Jan 13, 2016 6:59 pm OllyOllyRumbah Had pci today and found out from my independent building inspector that the light switches are not isolated and this needs to be fixed asap. The construction manager walked through with us and had never seen the device being used to detect this. Now if I had never hired a building inspector I'd never know and Hallmark Homes would have happily left them as is because the electrician certifies his own work. This has me worried because did he not check to make sure they are isolated? I had my suspicions about the electrical work very early on and even said the work should be independently inspected to which the building services manager scoffed at. Is your independent building inspector a qualified and licensed electrician or otherwise qualified? If not then he is testing outside his area of expertise, I would be sceptical. Your builder is required to complete work and in the case of licensed trade have certificate of compliance, that it! Done! Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 4Jan 14, 2016 6:45 pm Sorry my mistake. The term I should have used was 'leaking'. Does that make sense? Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 6Jan 15, 2016 12:39 am Regardless he found problems. Are you a tradie yourself Muzza40? My new house has plenty of problems caused by tradies - the electrical and plumbing are the start. The leaking isn't the only problem with the electrician. He put switches outside of rooms rather than inside, he put extra light switches all over the place and seem to spend weeks doing the work at my house. I have no faith in his work and one of the managers only made me worry more by telling me that the tradies they hire don't seem to be producing good quality work and haven't done so for a while. Really comforting. Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 7Jan 15, 2016 7:39 am Mate i think that your inspector is trying to look into things he obviously has no idea about. Yes im a tradesman myself. By simply telling you that the light switch is leaking doesnt make any sense. If he used a volt stick that is only an indication tool that power is present it doesnt test anything else. I obviously cant comment on the quality of the rest of the work Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 8Jan 15, 2016 11:06 am Unfortunately the OP has had some bad work carried out. I would still think that most tradies (well the ones I have been exposed to) take pride in their work and try and do their best. Of course there will be a % that are sloppy, lazy etc but that is true with every job, trade or profession. Self certification helps keep the costs down. People need to understand that. Are there areas that need tightening, yes. Are there those that take advantage, yes. But overall the % of houses that are substandard would still be a small percentage (have not researched this) of the number built. I work in a heavily regulated industry and it costs companies 100s of millions of dollars to stay compliant with the regulations. This of course is passed on otherwise we would not be in business. I don't want to pay for that sort of regulation in the building industry. I would like to see the same consumer protection for houses that you get when you buy other items such as a car, that seems just. Self certification - bad idea? no not at all. There are many examples where this works and helps keep costs down. End of rant Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 9Jan 15, 2016 11:31 am I can't fault your argument AussieMark and yes thousands of homes are successfully built on self certification and it does keep the cost down. However it must be supported with system of random inspections with on the spot fines. Just yesterday I inspected lockup where electrician has bashed holes in structural ply bracing with hammer or has vandalised it with hacking large holes. On the spot 5 k would ensure he never does it again. Same with brickies that took down temporary downpipes on a P class site Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 10Jan 15, 2016 6:39 pm Or it could turn into a fiasco like the self regulating ( read unregulated ) financial investment industry. Regularly featured on ACA, Today Tonight etc where Mum & Dad investors go to one of these guys and sink their money into one of their schemes only to have it go belly up soon after. Stewie Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 11Jan 15, 2016 7:10 pm In vic each time an electrical certificate is lodged with energy safe it goes into their system and they do randomly select jobs to audit. I think it was roughly 1 in every 7 or so you submit. If they find defective work then they audit you more frequently. If the defects are bad enough or serious then they do prosecute/fine the individual who does the work. Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 12Jan 15, 2016 8:07 pm In principle self certification goes against my grain for no one should be the judge in their own cause however as we have seen reality tempers principles and self certification works as said by AussieMark ,the essential element is auditing as said by Muzza40 The danger as Stewie said is when there is no watch dog or the dog has gone to sleep as it has with building control in Victoria. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 13Jan 15, 2016 11:51 pm Stewie D Or it could turn into a fiasco like the self regulating ( read unregulated ) financial investment industry. Stewie Didn't see the piece you are referring to but with more that 25 years in Banking and looking after controls and regulatory aspects I can assure you that in banking there are fines and the industry is extremely heavily regulated. Goldmans was just handed a UUS 5billion fine for mis-selling mortgage backed securities. With such heavy regulation and heavy fines the cost of compliance is staggering. I think as BE has pointed self regulation does work and maybe if a small levy on a tiered basis was built into building applications and membership dues to fund pure random sampling of work coupled with real fines it may have a chance. The pure random sampling would mean every trade has an equal chance of getting picked and possibly fined. This raised awareness and standards, they may not catch people as it is a little like mining for gold, you don't strike every dig. Its the chance of getting caught that makes you do the right thing. As Muzza has said, risk based selection can also be incorporated much like hygiene grades, you can move up or down depending on your quality. This would also help improve perceptions and provide a platform for potential clients to assess relative riskiness of the vendors. Still think independent inspector play an important role as arm's length oversight and control. Better stop but am very passionate about this. Oh on investment schemes, get them to draw it on a piece of paper. Trace the flows and if it is complicated or cannot be described on a piece of paper ask yourself why is it so hard. This can be a measure of inherent riskiness, if your investment approach is similar complexity then it may be within your appetite, if not might wanna pass. If something says guaranteed look at what constitutes guaranteed. Always ask what it the absolute maximum you can lose and will I get 100% of my principle back. Just like building, he who does his homework can make potentially better informed decisions. Cheers Mark Re: Tradies certify their own work - bad idea? 15Jan 16, 2016 7:26 am AM, I was sure I saw a piece on one of the commercial networks not too long ago about how some financial planners were exploiting a loophole to allow them to practice without a licence. Hmmm. I can't remember which one it was though. I do recall saying to myself at the time that surely this couldn't be right. 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