Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Apr 06, 2015 8:23 am Hi guys/gals, Just wondering if you all can help me. Last Wednesday our builder put up the roof on our new home, however as the brickwork isn't done just yet, I'm concerned about the lack of site drainage and no downpipes. Due to no downpipes, I'm sure you could understand that rainwater from the roof is now just pooling around the slab. I understand as2870-2011 covers this, but I'm unable to get a copy. Should my local library have it to read? I've attached a few pictures with regards to the area of concern. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp253/dkenyon1984/House/7A7CB815-7B72-4AA2-BECF-D10BA17310F6_zpsry7eczaj.jpg Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp253/dkenyon1984/House/F816C9B2-0BB9-4CBC-B767-BA4FFB3B6C2C_zpsyvrivkhq.jpg Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 2Apr 06, 2015 10:18 am Sorry to say but here are some obvious problems that are visual 1. Your FFL House level appears to be low to the surroundings ..down one side you will have a moat? 2.What type footings were engineered? 3. It is good practice to slope the ground away from the footings. 4. Have you put in storm water provisions and can you connect temp downpipes? 5. How much water is too much? The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that the brickwork needs to go up and you dont want to chop up the soil any further next to the footing and you havent put down hardbase. 6. If you leave a PM I can send you relevant code info...AS2870-2011 section 6 Construction requirements. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 3Apr 06, 2015 11:56 am Extreme... this is absolutely appalling. Why is your house so low? Check out these threads and you'll see why your builder is not meeting their obligations... Protecting your slab... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=70245 Rectifying slab heave... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=64836 Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 4Apr 06, 2015 2:15 pm The FFL isn't that low. Well it is on that rear corner of the house, but at the front of the block it's the opposite. We have an integrated retaining wall in the slab down the affected side of the house, due to a maintenance easement. The external drainage has already been done, so I believe there should be a provision to install temporary downpipes. As for footings, I don't have any engineering plans, just a slab plan and our contract makes mention of piers. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 5Apr 06, 2015 2:27 pm If the drainage has been installed then the temporary downpipes should be on... simple as that. Check out the post from Building-Expert's blog...
http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/s ... on-and-on/ The slab plan should also contain the footings layout. If it doesn't then you all that you need to do is ask your builder for it because I am pretty sure that it is a requirement for your building permit. Extreme The FFL isn't that low. Well it is on that rear corner of the house, but at the front of the block it's the opposite. We have an integrated retaining wall in the slab down the affected side of the house, due to a maintenance easement. The external drainage has already been done, so I believe there should be a provision to install temporary downpipes. aAs for footings, I don't have any engineering plans, just a slab plan and our contract makes mention of piers. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 6Apr 06, 2015 2:29 pm Extreme As for footings, I don't have any engineering plans, just a slab plan and our contract makes mention of piers. I also suggest you get an upto date copy of the engineering structurals (with all revisions) as it would be in your future interest to do so. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 7Apr 07, 2015 5:21 am I've just gone through all the paperwork and have found 4 pages of engineering detail that was sent to us from the certifier. The piering on the plan is shown as unreinforced concrete piering. Another question I have to raise is, who is responsible for the agg line and tanking of the integrated retaining wall. There's nothing noted in our tender/contract, but engineering detail says it's required. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 8Apr 07, 2015 10:26 am In WA if there are any decrepancies between the engineers plans/inspections and whats done on site it is highlighted as revisions on the structurals... the engineer is responsible for this, they are his drawings, he is qualified to alter, sign off and takes full responsibility for ommissions/changes. In your case, there are no Ommissions Noted by your inspection... just as well you picked them up..you will now have to scrutinize the Inspector who is there to inspect...you can see where this is going its so so easy for your system of inspection to fail and no-one is the wiser nor accountable. That begs the next question did you get photos of the Reo, Formwork, Pour, now that its covered whats been left out? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 9Apr 07, 2015 7:17 pm So, phone conversation with supervisor didn't go too well. He acknowledged the non compliance with section 6.6 (c) of as2870-2011, but refused to do anything about it, as downpipes will be installed "soon". I said that's absolute rubbish as we have 3 days of rain forecast for this weekend. Since they only started the brickwork today, there's no way in hell they'll be finished the brickwork, have the eaves installed and downpipes done before then. I've documented the conversation and sent an email to the construction manager as this is appalling. Especially considering this is from a larger project builder that markets the fact they build top quality homes. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 10Apr 07, 2015 8:24 pm Extreme So, phone conversation with supervisor didn't go too well. He acknowledged the non compliance with section 6.6 (c) of as2870-2011, but refused to do anything about it, as downpipes will be installed "soon". I said that's absolute rubbish as we have 3 days of rain forecast for this weekend. Since they only started the brickwork today, there's no way in hell they'll be finished the brickwork, have the eaves installed and downpipes done before then. I've documented the conversation and sent an email to the construction manager as this is appalling. Especially considering this is from a larger project builder that markets the fact they build top quality homes. Keep the pressure on... don't let them shirk their legal responsibility. If you have in independent inspector, get them involved. Then you will definitely have some evidence to prove that the builder has not done what they were meant to. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 11Apr 07, 2015 8:54 pm Can I throw my hat in here and give some advice if I may? The fact is the soil is wet, nothing can be done about that. Document and take lots of pics. Now what do you do about it? Put it aside and move on, because all the abusive phone calls and threats and bringing in independent inspectors wont change a damn thing about the soil being wet. Just because there is water sitting next to the slab doesn't immediately mean there will be edge heave or any future problems. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 12Apr 07, 2015 9:44 pm mgilla Can I throw my hat in here and give some advice if I may? The fact is the soil is wet, nothing can be done about that. Document and take lots of pics. Now what do you do about it? Put it aside and move on, because all the abusive phone calls and threats and bringing in independent inspectors wont change a damn thing about the soil being wet. Just because there is water sitting next to the slab doesn't immediately mean there will be edge heave or any future problems. I second that... great advice mgilla! Sometimes I get a bit over-protected (given my own experience). Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 13Apr 08, 2015 4:44 am mgilla Can I throw my hat in here and give some advice if I may? The fact is the soil is wet, nothing can be done about that. Document and take lots of pics. Now what do you do about it? Put it aside and move on, because all the abusive phone calls and threats and bringing in independent inspectors wont change a damn thing about the soil being wet. Just because there is water sitting next to the slab doesn't immediately mean there will be edge heave or any future problems. Look I agree that nothing can be done that the soil is wet. What I'm utterly disappointed with is the builders complete disregard to the Australian standards. Put simply he's agreed that I've caught him out on failing to collect and channel the run off away from the building. He has even said he won't be doing a damn thing about it until the downpipes get installed. Which is probably 2-3 weeks away at best. With it set to rain all weekend, where do you think all this run off will go? Nowhere, it'll just collect more and more out the back. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 14Apr 08, 2015 8:45 am It's human nature people (builders) push the limits..also you cant blame the builder for the rain. Steps to follow 1.You now need to log the data (soil moisture) for calculations/simulations 2.Make sure you tell the builder, that he will be held reponsibile for the non compliance and any further damages resulting there after. 3.Also no need for emotions they only cloud judgements. 4.You dont need an expert inspector..as you can do the data logging yourself, The data then needs to be analyzed using specialist engineering software. 5.You are now in unchartered territory as judgement outcomes will depend on data/calculations/engineering and not so on (called) expert opinions and builders experiences. 6.Take them on..show them you mean business.my2c Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 15Apr 08, 2015 3:00 pm I disagree with advice you have been given so far and I think that you have every right to be disappointed not only with the fact that builder has not followed required standards but also that your concerns are not addressed and your dwelling is at further risk from foundation flooding. The issue is failure in compliance and a breach of warranty that it would be so and with due respect to SIMBG it has nothing to do with engineering. Its purely contractual/compliance matter and negligence. In my view no amount of printed mumbo jumbo calculations and simulations is going to fix the problem that builder is not playing by the rules. Builder is just not delivering on his promise. I have frequently disagreed with mgilla and will do so again because apologist for poor workmanship is not what you need. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 16Apr 08, 2015 8:15 pm You know what, I too am with BE on this one. Not good enough on the part played by the builders. Rectify it asap, not later. I will be jumping up and down if I have the same issue when my build starts. Builders are made aware of the potential damage that can occur, they are liable but just don't let it happen or if it does, rectify it asap. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 17Apr 08, 2015 8:54 pm 2 bigger issues roughly related can happen during and after construction. The first is a slab poured and house built on reactive soil that is completely dry. Any time in the future when this soil gets wet the effect will be way worse then what this water laying against the slab in the early stage of construction has. The other is home owners who dont follow the CSIRO guidelines and put gardens, turf and inappropriate trees near there house. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 18Apr 09, 2015 7:32 am From my experience the other significant issues you can come across which may increase your chances of slab heave are builders not grading the land away from the slab on reactive clay soil, builders not ensuring your have 150mm separation between ground level and the top of the slab, builders not using flexible joints on service pipes as specified in your engineering notes, builders not putting in cut-off drains where the land slopes towards the house as specified in your engineering notes, builders not ensuring your drainage pipes have the required 100mm of soil cover with the effect the pipes have to be dug up and laid again with no apparent concern for issues like angle of repose and also flooding your slab when they allow the water from a charged system to pool around your footings. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 19Apr 09, 2015 8:01 am mgilla 2 bigger issues roughly related can happen during and after construction. The first is a slab poured and house built on reactive soil that is completely dry. Any time in the future when this soil gets wet the effect will be way worse then what this water laying against the slab in the early stage of construction has. The other is home owners who dont follow the CSIRO guidelines and put gardens, turf and inappropriate trees near there house. The first issue you talk about is my pet issue. We have houses built on highly reactive soil without slab edge protection around perimeter. It's like a man without a hat. Face will get wet in the rain. This is why I have consistently maintained that engineering design for reactive foundation soils that fails to provide for protection against surrounding soil getting wet, it is a blunder of highest order. Builders have charged owners thousands of dollars(perhaps tens of thousands) to upgrade slabs for reactive soils yet for some inexplicable reasons have failed to protect slab edges from moisture. This is yet to play out in VCAT and when it does I think my view will prevail. The second is that I agree with you, builders don't have monopoly in negligence and stupidity, owners can outdo them. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 20Apr 09, 2015 8:12 am Liliana From my experience the other significant issues you can come across which may increase your chances of slab heave are builders not grading the land away from the slab on reactive clay soil, builders not ensuring your have 150mm separation between ground level and the top of the slab, builders not using flexible joints on service pipes as specified in your engineering notes, builders not putting in cut-off drains where the land slopes towards the house as specified in your engineering notes, builders not ensuring your drainage pipes have the required 100mm of soil cover with the effect the pipes have to be dug up and laid again with no apparent concern for issues like angle of repose and also flooding your slab when they allow the water from a charged system to pool around your footings. I would like to add, failing to grade bottoms of drain trenches away so trenches don't become water reservoirs under and around the home. Whilst I was doing recent pre slab inspection I had a chat with a plumber who was checking location of pipes through slab. He told me of high incidence of broken connections of pipes through slab from careless concretors and that in their CCTV checking they found very high incidence of broken stormwater pipes (from trucks and machinery) He was from a large plumbing company and now they CCTV every house drains at completion. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog This certainly doesn't look good. I would be engaging with an independent inspector to have a look at this. As for the unscheduled site visits, most builders are quite… 1 28326 Need more photos from around the house including your gutters. We have had 3 of the wettest years in a row for some time so that wouldn't be helping 3 6956 The Soil classification has little to do with piers. The purpose of the classing of the soil is to identify the clay content and the "average expected range of movement… 2 9862 |