Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 21Apr 09, 2015 8:15 am From AS2870 1.3.3 Examples of abnormal moisture conditions resulting FROM CONSTRUCTION include the following: (i) Failure to provide adequate site drainage. So it could be argued that you now have a "P" site not a "H1". Keep your photo's and email records you may need them in the future. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 22Apr 09, 2015 8:30 am Great point! Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 23Apr 09, 2015 9:05 am building-expert In my view no amount of printed mumbo jumbo calculations and simulations is going to fix the problem that builder is not playing by the rules. Builder is just not delivering on his promise. Unless you (Building Inspector) are qualified to back up a view with facts..then IMO clients, shouldnt waste their time and money at the commission hiring an unqualified expert, chances are you will be rolled by an expert with engineering qualifications/calculations hired by the builder. FYI,The structural codes arent black and white.There are choices that engineers/designers can design to: 1. Simplified method 2. By Calculations 3. Simulations are acceptable through alternate codes ie euro codes It's not a game mate (ie playing by the rules there are no hard fast set rules?) if one of the above doesnt give the required results-> then try 2-> try 3-> hire another engineer? Clients life savings are ploughed into their only asset..and they usually dont have the funds to keep hiring non-experts regarding structural matters, your building commission needs to wake up and make engineers and builders more accountable. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 24Apr 09, 2015 9:50 am You still don't get it Builder promises in warranties to follow standards then does not do it. It's a breach of warranty and a defect and you don't need engineering degree to work it out. No amount of calculations/simulations can change that. Perhaps your calculations/simulations can prove that despite breach of warranties there is no damage but that's not the point. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 25Apr 09, 2015 9:56 am How can there be a breach of standards when the standards can be interpreted any way the engineer wants to... you dont get it. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 26Apr 09, 2015 11:16 am StructuralBIMGuy How can there be a breach of standards when the standards can be interpreted any way the engineer wants to... you dont get it. Last week I did a quote for structural repair work for a client who was selling his House.The real estate agent advised the purchaser (unknown) to get a structural report from a Building Inspector (not an engineer), incidentally the report was given to me...It was a pile of C*** and there was no way I was going to rip the client off. In the repair quote I advise the client that I was a qualified Engineer and contractor and advised him accordingly. I assume the real estate agent didnt pass my quote on to the purchaser..instead the building inspector went engineering shopping for an engineer that would refute my work and support his structural report?. The first engineer that phoned me, LOL hadnt even visited the job... but it was OK for him to phone and question my work? The second engineer visited the site and vindicated my repair work/quote.. so i never heard back from him The purchaser hired an idiot Building inspector and two engineers... and I am sure (his) client is none the wiser? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 27Apr 10, 2015 12:11 pm I emailed the construction manager of said builder, who quickly jumped on the bandwagon and backed his supervisor. Flaunted crap along the lines of the home is covered structurally by a statutory warranty for 6years etc etc. I replied asking for confirmation that this warranty and any relevant insurance will remain current even tho there has been a clear non compliance with as2870. I also outlined that non compliance of as2870 could potentially be a breach of contract due to not meeting the building specification requirements outlined in said contract. As yet, I haven't received a reply. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 28Apr 10, 2015 1:27 pm Unfortunately, Non-Compliance to codes is fairly common it doesnt necessarily give you breach of contract. You will now need to start collecting Data/Proof (Geo & structural),eg moisture, slab movement, levels and cracking, etc,etc... and prove it is more than usual and as a result of the builders negligence.Goodluck Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 29Apr 10, 2015 5:00 pm Extreme I emailed the construction manager of said builder, who quickly jumped on the bandwagon and backed his supervisor. Flaunted crap along the lines of the home is covered structurally by a statutory warranty for 6years etc etc. I replied asking for confirmation that this warranty and any relevant insurance will remain current even tho there has been a clear non compliance with as2870. I also outlined that non compliance of as2870 could potentially be a breach of contract due to not meeting the building specification requirements outlined in said contract. As yet, I haven't received a reply. The warranty is written into your contract. Unless your going to now terminate the contract, what are you going to do about this perceived breach of contract. And also, start asking permission to go on site and take photos or doing any other fact finding you may want to do. Because as it stands, you are trespassing when you enter the site without permission and it would be deemed the photos were obtained illegally. It seems the band wagon seem to forget that part of the contract when they insist everything is black and white. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 30Apr 10, 2015 5:51 pm Ha Ha Ha Fences around sites, builders will tell you its to stop theft and damage they wont tell you it also stops nosey clients from taking photos and puting them up on H1 for advice. I fear extreme you and your Building Inspector havent taken enough photos/data at preslab stage.... but on second thoughts thats a minor problem... I would say the builder might have a major problem proving his case if there is structural damage. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 31Apr 11, 2015 8:24 am mgilla Extreme Because as it stands, you are trespassing when you enter the site without permission and it would be deemed the photos were obtained illegally. It seems the band wagon seem to forget that part of the contract when they insist everything is black and white. Here we go again mgilla. Would you please explain to me how owner could be trespassing on his own land? Under the Act in Victoria , owner has automatic legal right to enter his land under building contract at any reasonable time. In this case where owner suspects builder is in breach of standards I would call that a reasonable cause to enter at any time whether builder agrees or not. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 32Apr 11, 2015 8:34 am building-expert mgilla Extreme Because as it stands, you are trespassing when you enter the site without permission and it would be deemed the photos were obtained illegally. It seems the band wagon seem to forget that part of the contract when they insist everything is black and white. Here we go again mgilla. Would you please explain to me how owner could be trespassing on his own land? Under the Act in Victoria , owner has automatic legal right to enter his land under building contract at any reasonable time. In this case where owner suspects builder is in breach of standards I would call that a reasonable cause to enter at any time whether builder agrees or not. Well, that's a relief! Wouldn't it be simpler for the builder to just fix the problem than to waste time trying to sue the client who is actually putting up the money for the job? Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 33Apr 11, 2015 8:45 am The whole thing is really quite simple and the key is found in production control. It means, planning,executing, monitoring and correcting The root cause of all building defects is to be found in breakdown of the above chain (assuming instruction set , the design has no defects) and it happens because builders won't spend money on effective supervision, monitoring and control. QA system costs money to implement and maintain. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 34Apr 11, 2015 9:00 am building-expert mgilla Extreme Because as it stands, you are trespassing when you enter the site without permission and it would be deemed the photos were obtained illegally. It seems the band wagon seem to forget that part of the contract when they insist everything is black and white. Here we go again mgilla. Would you please explain to me how owner could be trespassing on his own land? Under the Act in Victoria , owner has automatic legal right to enter his land under building contract at any reasonable time. In this case where owner suspects builder is in breach of standards I would call that a reasonable cause to enter at any time whether builder agrees or not. BE, this is what you told me about not being able to contract your way out of an Act of Parliment. The Act takes precedence over contract. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 35Apr 11, 2015 9:35 am StructuralBIMGuy Unfortunately, Non-Compliance to codes is fairly common it doesnt necessarily give you breach of contract. Wrong! Builder warrants to comply with codes. Failing to comply is a breach of warranty and a breach of warranty is automatically a defect and a breach of contract! Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 36Apr 11, 2015 10:18 am building-expert StructuralBIMGuy Unfortunately, Non-Compliance to codes is fairly common it doesnt necessarily give you breach of contract. Wrong! Builder warrants to comply with codes. Failing to comply is a breach of warranty and a breach of warranty is automatically a defect and a breach of contract! Woop dee doo, the builder breached the contract by not putting temporary downpipes on the house, so what are you going to do about it, take them to court? terminate the contract? Put up or shut up. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 37Apr 11, 2015 11:39 am building-expert StructuralBIMGuy Unfortunately, Non-Compliance to codes is fairly common it doesnt necessarily give you breach of contract. Wrong! Builder warrants to comply with codes. Failing to comply is a breach of warranty and a breach of warranty is automatically a defect and a breach of contract! Mate, you arent even licenced nor qualified to interpret the structural codes for failure thats an engineers job Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 38Apr 11, 2015 12:00 pm looks to me like water will pool there even if your builder addresses the drainage from the footprint of the building - I,e. it will come in from your uphill neighbours. say he puts in temp drainage provisions to remove water from the roof, and it ponds from your neighbours property, what happens then? im sure the builder will not be responsible from water offsite coming onto his site. He may then push back onto you, since you have made it an issue now. Its construction site, the ground will get wet when it rains. Water will pond on your site until it is finished. That's not a lot of water anyway. Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 39Apr 11, 2015 12:12 pm mgilla building-expert StructuralBIMGuy Unfortunately, Non-Compliance to codes is fairly common it doesnt necessarily give you breach of contract. Wrong! Builder warrants to comply with codes. Failing to comply is a breach of warranty and a breach of warranty is automatically a defect and a breach of contract! Woop dee doo, the builder breached the contract by not putting temporary downpipes on the house, so what are you going to do about it, take them to court? terminate the contract? Put up or shut up. Heres an example of a simulation where the slab IMO had failed upon intial brick loading data deflection 6mm tensile stress 4mpa. https://plus.google.com/u/1/11454493899 ... 5916531570 They choose to ignore the results because in their opinion they werent significant I then produced time dependant results for 1-2-3-4 years at 5 years while still under warranty the slab and internal walls were defective.... You can ignore the calculations/simulations if you wish... LOL, see you in court. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Pooling of water around a H1 class slab. 40Apr 11, 2015 1:58 pm inflames62 looks to me like water will pool there even if your builder addresses the drainage from the footprint of the building - I,e. it will come in from your uphill neighbours. say he puts in temp drainage provisions to remove water from the roof, and it ponds from your neighbours property, what happens then? im sure the builder will not be responsible from water offsite coming onto his site. He may then push back onto you, since you have made it an issue now. Its construction site, the ground will get wet when it rains. Water will pond on your site until it is finished. That's not a lot of water anyway. Most engineering drawings will show drainage toe at bottom of excavation batter and even if they don't builer is required to manage site drainage. And yes I have seen slab heave before house was finished. This certainly doesn't look good. I would be engaging with an independent inspector to have a look at this. As for the unscheduled site visits, most builders are quite… 1 28320 Need more photos from around the house including your gutters. We have had 3 of the wettest years in a row for some time so that wouldn't be helping 3 6949 The Soil classification has little to do with piers. The purpose of the classing of the soil is to identify the clay content and the "average expected range of movement… 2 9854 |