Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Feb 11, 2015 6:34 am We're building a new house and want to be sure everything is done right and ensure our investment and family home is not only safe but will last and hold its value. We're considering employment of building inspectors but if we got every stage done it would be over $3000 additional cost. You might say that isn't much in the long term but anyone who is building knows that money gets tighter the further you get in to the build with landscaping and other essential costs just over the horizon. So if I was to selectively choose different inspection stages, rather than just getting all of them, what ones would people recommend? I was thinking the frame stage and the pre-handover stage would be the most essential, which according to quotes I've seen will be around $1000 on average for both inclusive. Any suggestions? Re: Inspection Basics 2Feb 11, 2015 6:51 am light487 We're building a new house and want to be sure everything is done right and ensure our investment and family home is not only safe but will last and hold its value. We're considering employment of building inspectors but if we got every stage done it would be over $3000 additional cost. You might say that isn't much in the long term but anyone who is building knows that money gets tighter the further you get in to the build with landscaping and other essential costs just over the horizon. So if I was to selectively choose different inspection stages, rather than just getting all of them, what ones would people recommend? I was thinking the frame stage and the pre-handover stage would be the most essential, which according to quotes I've seen will be around $1000 on average for both inclusive. Any suggestions? It's your money and your risk. How would you like your sewer pipe coming up in your bedroom or your brand new home with bows in walls and ceilings. Read my blogs! 3K is less than cost of hair replacement Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Inspection Basics 3Feb 11, 2015 7:20 am Honestly.. the problem with your reply is that you don't consider what I am asking. Of course, as an advertiser, you are going to promote the point of view that every tiny test you can sell is a vital and critical inspection. However, some of us come to this forum to find out objective opinions or at least those that are backed up by independent evidence. We're tired of the hard sells and scare mongering that we got during the pre-sale and tender processes.. we've reached a point of the project where building is about to commence and we just want some consideration of our own position. Your reply doesn't fill me with confidence in your blog's ability to be objective. I've read a couple of the blog posts and they really don't sound much different than a sales pitch or like a politician trying to win votes. If I had money growing on my trees, I'd throw $3000+ on inspections without a second thought.. but money IS tight.. this isn't the best economy. So I'm looking for the most essential inspections. It's hard to know, from your response, what those essential inspections would be. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 4Feb 11, 2015 8:05 am I think in what YOURE not considering is the wealth of examples of defects being built into houses everyday. Youre talking about safeguarding your investment and home but looking to cheap out on it because of cosmetic stuff like landacaping... do you want a house with defects and nice landscaping when you move in or do you want a well built house and hold off on landscaping for a few months? 3k is the least amount of money you'd spend on your house over the course of the project. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Inspection Basics 5Feb 11, 2015 9:46 am light487 Honestly.. the problem with your reply is that you don't consider what I am asking. Of course, as an advertiser, you are going to promote the point of view that every tiny test you can sell is a vital and critical inspection. However, some of us come to this forum to find out objective opinions or at least those that are backed up by independent evidence. We're tired of the hard sells and scare mongering that we got during the pre-sale and tender processes.. we've reached a point of the project where building is about to commence and we just want some consideration of our own position. Your reply doesn't fill me with confidence in your blog's ability to be objective. I've read a couple of the blog posts and they really don't sound much different than a sales pitch or like a politician trying to win votes. If I had money growing on my trees, I'd throw $3000+ on inspections without a second thought.. but money IS tight.. this isn't the best economy. So I'm looking for the most essential inspections. It's hard to know, from your response, what those essential inspections would be. I would have thought it would be easy to tell the difference between sales pitch and blog, the first is what I promise to do and the second what I have done. I prefer that what I have done speaks for me. If you have actually taken time to read my blogs you would have had the answers you need. However I think you are one of those that wants others to do your homework and serve you the answers on the plate as a cheap meal. In the restaurant of karma everyone gets what they deserve. I wish you luck with your build. Re: Inspection Basics 6Feb 11, 2015 10:07 am Kinda the point of being an expert I would have thought, to provide advice on questions asked. Guess I was wrong and need to be an expert myself. Thought it would have been obvious from my questions that I was looking for advice from a professional is all. Research is what I am doing right now and part of that research is asking questions on this forum. I've found a respected inspection company that will do it for $3000 ish and after talking to them it appears that I can do without the post handover report "in my situation " so I will pay around $2000 instead (inclusive of prepaid discount) That's fine. I've no actual paying for the work but I need to know the value in each of the inspection stages. This company took the time to explore my situation and explain the benefits and value in the stages of inspection so I could make a more educated decision. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 7Feb 11, 2015 10:40 am light487 Kinda the point of being an expert I would have thought, to provide advice on questions asked. Guess I was wrong and need to be an expert myself. . Expert advuice usually comes at a cost. what you were looking for was guidance on whether each stage was important. Different people will value certain stages differently, while others will see the value in the work as a whole. You dont need to be an expert yourself, but no one can do the due diligence on which expert you chose but you. It seems you have done just that. light487 Thought it would have been obvious from my questions that I was looking for advice from a professional is all. . As above you were looking to understand value, not get advice. A profesional inspectors advice would no doubt be "get all stages done". thats why they exist. There is a methodology behind why these stages exist. You on the other hand were tying to place value on which stage is more important to get done. One could argue that they ar eall important. It would be ironic if a possible future defect that causes major issues down the line ends up being missed in one of the stages you decided to forgo. light487 Research is what I am doing right now and part of that research is asking questions on this forum. . ... but you didnt like the answer you got, which was (paraphrased) "they are all important" light487 I've found a respected inspection company that will do it for $3000 ish and after talking to them it appears that I can do without the post handover report "in my situation " so I will pay around $2000 instead (inclusive of prepaid discount) . light487 That's fine. I've no actual paying for the work but I need to know the value in each of the inspection stages. This company took the time to explore my situation and explain the benefits and value in the stages of inspection so I could make a more educated decision. ironically it was the sales pitch that convinced you. It was just a different approach. These guys had you listening - they took the time and pitched you based on what you wanted. This is not advice. You surely recognise the difference, right?. I dont mean this to come acros blundlty but the point the BE made about have ing thought it would be "easy to tell the difference between sales pitch and blog" is exactly the point im making here. The only difference here is he didnt pitch you. Someone else did. Now youre in the hole for 2k minimum. Im in no way denigrating who you have chosen, as I have no idea who they are or how they operate. It may very well be theuy are the best. What Im trying to point out is the irony of it all. You wanted advice, not a sales pitch and you got sold. Just remember this one piece of advice - its free (because its not professional) - Professional Advice is never free. Anything that comes from a business when you ring them for "advice" is in fact a sales pitch. It may come across as advice, but it is not. It is often designed to get you to buy whatever it is they are selling by showing you the value of what they are selling. Sometimes the value is over stated (or in yourcase, understated to convince you you can get what you want cheaper). This comes to mind, albeit, not exactly teh same, you get the drift - Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ http://www.pyragraph.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GOOD-FAST-CHEAP.jpg Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Inspection Basics 8Feb 11, 2015 11:00 am I've not decided yet nor paid upfront. I'm just saying that we've identified a company that will do a package deal for all stages as compared to doing it separately or with no.discount. We're still going to research them etc. But we are willing to pay if there is value there. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 9Feb 12, 2015 8:30 am light487, I understand where your coming from. Im in a similiar boat as you, just about to start constructoin though. Just beware there are so many sharks out there. I looked into some Building Inspectors and many of them the report they writeup is not worth the paper its written on. So many out clauses, and assessment based on other peoples info or report. I wanted a slab stage inspection and many of these Inspection companies will not even bother to actually pickup a tape measure and confirm the slab dimensions are all correct, or confirm slab heights, RL levels and correct siting of slab etc. When questioned why they dont do this, Reply - Because we look at the certifiers report if its all been ok! Well what happens when the certifier that is hired by the builder gets it wrong? None of these experts are responsible because of the out clauses they all seem to have. Re: Inspection Basics 10Feb 12, 2015 8:33 am BrandonZoe light487, I understand where your coming from. Im in a similiar boat as you, just about to start constructoin though. Just beware there are so many sharks out there. I looked into some Building Inspectors and many of them the report they writeup is not worth the paper its written on. So many out clauses, and assessment based on other peoples info or report. I wanted a slab stage inspection and many of these Inspection companies will not even bother to actually pickup a tape measure and confirm the slab dimensions are all correct, or confirm slab heights, RL levels and correct siting of slab etc. When questioned why they dont do this, Reply - Because we look at the certifiers report if its all been ok! Well what happens when the certifier that is hired by the builder gets it wrong? None of these experts are responsible because of the out clauses they all seem to have. Indeed. Even when you do all the due diligence and research the company, you just don't know. I've reached out to a number of people on these forums who have used the inspection company I am considering to use to see what their experience was. I've seen real examples of their reports from one person already and it does indeed include actual measurements and notes that indicate when the slab is not the correct size and shape. I'll need more than one person's feedback of course though. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 11Feb 12, 2015 9:54 pm Ok, to actually answer your question.......... I would see Frame inspection as a critical one, and maybe pre handover if you were to skimp. Not sure how they do it down south of QLD, but up here slabs are inspected by the designing engineer so you are "likely" to have a more accurately inspected slab, not just someone with a certifiers ticket who thinks he knows. The engineer will check the critical parts with a tape, but won't check the basic overall dimensions. There is not much else going on between slab and frame, and frame and handover that you won't pick up at either of those stages. A lot of inspectors don't even know how to inspect a frame properly, a big part of this is they have never built one before, or they did 30 years ago when the materials, methods and systems were totally different. Re: Inspection Basics 12Feb 13, 2015 5:47 am 33 amc wrote "There is not much else going on between slab and frame, and frame and handover that you won't pick up at either of those stages." Really? Then have a look at this http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/new-ho ... laster.htm http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/f ... ol-system/ Then tell me how will you know that perfectly good frame was not damaged by careless and uncaring trades and that walls are properly straightened or in the case of dual occ that fire walls are actually properly constructed. There is a reason why we strongly recommend at least four inspection and it's experience. I will agree with you that if you are only going to do two inspections then frame and pre final are best options so long as OP knows what the risks are. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Inspection Basics 13Feb 13, 2015 5:57 am We've decided to do: - Slab - Frame - Pre-lining/Brickwork and Veneer Complete/Roof On - Waterproofing - Pre-Handover Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 14Feb 13, 2015 8:32 am BrandonZoe Well what happens when the certifier that is hired by the builder gets it wrong? None of these experts are responsible because of the out clauses they all seem to have. That happens all the time the builder hires an expert and so does the clients, and so we have one expert opinion against another. The Building commission and civil courts will tell you there is no out clause for the person who has done the work and were negligence can be proved... Personally I dont see the sense in waiting to see the structural failure/cracks. As soon as you know there is a problem have it properly checked and noted by an engineer. These days Design Engineers empower clients to use iphone cameras and apps once we determine there is a possibility of failure all parties are put on notice. Mate let me tell you the New home Salesperson & New home Brokers gets paid A huge Finders Fee (LOL,come in spinner) ... pity he doesnt do the inspections... on second thoughts he wouldnt know what he's checking because he isnt an expert...go figure Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Inspection Basics 15Feb 13, 2015 11:34 am light487 We've decided to do: - Slab - Frame - Pre-lining/Brickwork and Veneer Complete/Roof On - Waterproofing - Pre-Handover Pre contract consultations with an appropriately qualified person can have financial and other benefits. Missing just one thing will cost you a variation fee if there is a change later on plus the financial 'accounting' is often in the builder's favour. Last year, one H1 poster found a pre contract error of $16,000 in the builder's favour. Many people are often rushed into signing the contract and they also find the contract and plans intimidating and consequently just glance through them. There was one recent poster who had build issues that could have been picked up pre contract but they justified the oversights by saying they were too busy. There is NO justification for not exercising due diligence when it comes to signing contracts. Diligence can become dilligence if you move forward blindly. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Inspection Basics 16Feb 13, 2015 11:43 am light487 We've decided to do: - Slab - Frame - Pre-lining/Brickwork and Veneer Complete/Roof On - Waterproofing - Pre-Handover Good decision Cheers Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Inspection Basics 17Feb 13, 2015 12:34 pm We're definitely going to be going over our final plans with a fine tooth comb. Don't want to even miss a misplaced power outlet let alone something critical like window or wall placement positions. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ Re: Inspection Basics 18Feb 13, 2015 8:49 pm building-expert 33 amc wrote "There is not much else going on between slab and frame, and frame and handover that you won't pick up at either of those stages." Really? Then have a look at this http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/new-ho ... laster.htm http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog/f ... ol-system/ Then tell me how will you know that perfectly good frame was not damaged by careless and uncaring trades and that walls are properly straightened or in the case of dual occ that fire walls are actually properly constructed. There is a reason why we strongly recommend at least four inspection and it's experience. I will agree with you that if you are only going to do two inspections then frame and pre final are best options so long as OP knows what the risks are. Simple, Do the frame inspection post rough in (pre sheet) All they rest of those photos were no easier to rectify when you took the photos than they would have been closer to handover Even that bent wall could have been picked up on a frame inspection if the inspection was done properly Re: Inspection Basics 19Feb 14, 2015 7:10 am The reason why we recommend pre plaster inspection after frame inspection is that between frame and preparation for plaster some of the framing elements may become concealed. 1 External nailing to bracing may be concealed by foil or brickwork 2 externally fitted blocking under double stud loads (2 storey const) may become concealed) 3 Insulation fitted in walls may conceal damage to sheet bracing on outer walls The other point you are missing is "continuity of monitoring" On highly reactive sites builder is required to fit temporary downpipes as soon as roof is covered and to maintain site drainage. Who is going to tell owner builder is not doing it? Building inspector does not care. So if we take your advice and delay frame inspection to pre sheet (to save on one inspection fee) we could have two or three months of roof water flooding against slab edges from unconnected downpipes( I have seen it dozens of times). What will that do to highly reactive clay foundation. I have seen house with slab heave before completion. Presently I have dozens of homes where builders have neglected site drainage but the homes are not yet damaged (we hope they don't) but if they do I have photographic evidence taken at stage inspections for evidence to prosecute damages claim. Stage inspections are not just about critical points in construction of the house elements that i think should be inspected but also overall site drainage management and a strong message to the builder "hey we have expert looking after us". How many times have I had owners with damaged homes and then I ask them for photographic evidence during construction and there is nothing or if there are some they don't show what I need to see? It's also about partnering where owner knows I am his expert "in the cloud" and owner is guided what to look for between stages and report back with any issues. Its also about owner reassurance and peace of mind. You won't get continuity with just 2 sporadic inspections. You cannot have someone for full time monitoring because it is cost prohibitive so we have four stage inspections at critical points together with owner partnering with cloud cover. Its the next best thing, it's affordable and a sweet point between price and value. You get what you pay for and if it's just two inspections you want "no problemos amigos" Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Inspection Basics 20Feb 14, 2015 7:52 am This is just my opinion but I think one thing that isn't really advertised also is that by having an independent inspector is that the builder is made aware, early on, that there will be an independent inspector coming to check their work at various stages of construction and I feel that this would push them to be a bit more careful than they would normally do if they only had to deal with the certifiers that are employed by the parent company who they may know and be in a relationship with already and may allow them to get away with little bits and pieces including slab flooding, which seems to be an extremely common thing based on what I've been reading. Paddington 29 @ Blue Horizon Estate (Lot 105, Wattleridge Crescent, North Kellyville) Our Build Progress Blog: http://light487.wordpress.com/ i would suggest nothing is unreasonable for PCI. we did all sorts, including checking the hot water, checking all the GPO's had power, testing that the showers were… 9 98688 you need to understand the breakdown of warranties. 90 warranty is considered as minor defects rectification period where as the longer ones are more major/structural… 1 5346 Hi, I have this sewer inspection point sitting in an odd spot in the rear of my yard: https://imgur.com/ghLI98q What I'd like to do is put a firepit in that corner of… 0 6526 |