Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! 1 Nov 12, 2014 5:36 pm Question: Do structural drawings over-ride engineering drawings or the other way around? Our architectural drawings have our slab height at a different height to the engineering drawings. Our building is telling me that the architectural drawings take priority. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 2Nov 12, 2014 8:24 pm Hi tlblhayward Structural Drawings are Engineering Drawings and they need to be certified by a structural Engineer..They also take precedence over Architectural Drawings (which anyone can produce) The builders is incorrect I suggest you talk to the shire's building approvals department.HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 3Nov 12, 2014 8:25 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hi tlblhayward Structural Drawings are Engineering Drawings and they need to be certified by a structural Engineer..They also take precedence over Architectural Drawings (which anyone can produce) The builders is incorrect I suggest you talk to the shire's building approvals department.HTH Thanks... that's what my inspector said. I'll get into council tomorrow. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 4Nov 12, 2014 8:32 pm So who is responsible for determining the height that the slab should be put at? Is there a report that should have been done to determine the appropriate height? Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 5Nov 13, 2014 6:44 am The architectural drawings would have been produced before the engineering drawings and then should have been amended once the engineering came back so that they align with the engineers instructions. Sloppy revision by whoever drafted the architectural set. Completed a knock down and rebuild in northern Melbourne. Handover completed 27/09/2013 and now moved in. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 6Nov 13, 2014 8:11 am How much difference in slab height are you talking about ? 50mm won't affect much but 200mm higher for instance could push you over the max allowable building height. Too low could cause drainage problems. Stewie Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 7Nov 13, 2014 8:18 am Stewie D How much difference in slab height are you talking about ? 50mm won't affect much but 200mm higher for instance could push you over the max allowable building height. Too low could cause drainage problems. Stewie 1metre Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 8Nov 13, 2014 8:47 am Its generally all round sloppy work when the designer & builder chooses to postpone decisions until they have gone past planning and generally leaves it up to the engineer at building approvals stage who then gets blamed. egs of excuses 1. Doesnt tell the client there is a possibility of problems until we encounter them... need to know basis? 2. Dont understand cost implications of their design on engineering.... sure we can widen the room later? 3. On difficult builds make sure your designer isnt a dreamer and your builder doesnt say Ill sort it out on site later....otherwise your in for a lot of problems that will cost you money and delays.... we didnt know until we started digging?. 4. Uses the Engineering drawings as an excuse to extract more money from trusting clients.... our preliminary estimates were way under? 5. Now some engineers should take some of the blame as well... The contractor made a mistake reading the engineering drawings but we've found a fix? There have been many cases where minor and major details have been overlooked and have turned into nightmares on site during construction.... the best excuse Ive heard is the "Guy who did the sketch is only a Home Salesman, and he loves sketching in his spare time and he does it for free, what would he know? What do you think should come first? HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 9Nov 13, 2014 8:54 am tlblhayward Stewie D How much difference in slab height are you talking about ? 50mm won't affect much but 200mm higher for instance could push you over the max allowable building height. Too low could cause drainage problems. Stewie 1metre Wow you havent even gone past planning yet and 1M height difference thats certainly going to affect set backs and then Engineering Im guessing whats the upper wall going to sit on as it wont be the wall below. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 10Nov 13, 2014 9:07 am Our builder has said that the RL10.10 was a mistake and that, as shown in our contract documentation, RL9.10 was the correct height. How do I verify this? Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 11Nov 13, 2014 9:21 am tlblhayward Our builder has said that the RL10.10 was a mistake and that, as shown in our contract documentation, RL9.10 was the correct height. How do I verify this? I left that excuse out above.. 6. Always blame someone else? the short answer is get someone else that knows what they are doing, unfortunately you can notch that up to experience. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 12Nov 18, 2014 9:53 pm Did an actual architect do the drawings? In my experience architecturals take precedence. It's often listed in a building contract (if prepared by your architect) the list of precedence for all contract documents. The engineer draws a design to match the architecturals. If something comes up during design that the engineer needs or wants to change its discussed with the architect and then if agreed both sets are changed. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 13Nov 18, 2014 10:03 pm StructuralBIMGuy Hi tlblhayward Structural Drawings are Engineering Drawings and they need to be certified by a structural Engineer..They also take precedence over Architectural Drawings (which anyone can produce) The builders is incorrect I suggest you talk to the shire's building approvals department.HTH This is not true for the slab height. A structural engineer has precedence for structural integrity of the building (ie slab thickness; reinforcement type, size and location; piers etc etc.) but the height is not determined by the engineer, it's by the designer. The architect uses their expertise to design within council requirements whilst keeping cost of cut, fill and construction type in mind. If you have a civil engineer involved then that may be a different story as they deal with stormwater drainage and soil and are better equipped than an architect to determine the most suitable height -within a range provided by the architect. However it always starts with the architect and the engineers overlay their expertise on the architecturals. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 14Nov 19, 2014 11:56 am That's true of most civil engineers (unlike myself) they wouldnt bother with siteworks (FFLs), but I work along the whole supply chain. Most Designers/Architects lack the skills to interpret the overall affects of the physical site in design from start to finish and I am being kind here have a look around at whats on offer, being equiped with a 3D rendered model doesnt mean anything in the scheme of things.From a design/engineering/building perspective it's about best overall design solution for the time and cost involved we engineers call it OPTIMIZATION from my experience Architects are terrible with math great with presentations, though maybe thats where an App maybe useful. With The engineer following the designer/Architect That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.. but from where I sit clients are getting tied of adding all these layers of costs, delays and then having to redo things... from what they are saying all they want is an all inclusive service and I dont blame them for wanting that.Imo it is all about empowering clients to make the right decisions and if that comes before a Designer/Architects/Builder gets involved so be it. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 15Nov 27, 2014 9:20 pm tlblhayward Stewie D How much difference in slab height are you talking about ? 50mm won't affect much but 200mm higher for instance could push you over the max allowable building height. Too low could cause drainage problems. Stewie 1metre Our slab was laid 590mm above council approved architectural plans with no drop edge beams as per the council DCP plan. Not only is our builder BSing to all and sundry including under oath in NCAT and affidavits about how it ended up that height ( refer to the blame someone else point) he is taking no responsibility for allowing the build to continue despite him immediately know his earthworks contractors had brought in more fill and raised the height of the pad.....it continued without new plans, a section 96 amendment, a variation to us....in fact no comment in writing at all! To complicate matters the Council as principal certifying authority also passed the pier and slab infections.....and you guessed it they will not accept liability or responsibility for it either! We demolished the slab under Council order 7 months after it was laid. What is happening with yours? I feel for you I really do....some builders are just blundering idiots Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 16Dec 04, 2014 7:51 pm My slab was poured 100mm lower than the required RL on council stamped drawings . When I asked my builder if the slab was checked, he replied, yes. I'm not convinced and will look at taking it further to the point where they should now install a drain in front of my garage to stop water entering off the driveway. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 17Dec 07, 2014 3:46 pm I'd be going back to both the draftsman/architect and the engineer to determine which is the correct height. I've seen some doozies come from both - Mistakes happen and usually it's not difficult to rectify things if you haven't started the build yet. Your builder just dismissing it without evidence or further investigation is not acceptable either. I'd be looking at the relevant flood levels etc from your water authority as a starting point to determine the correct answer and push for the more desirable answer based on that information. Re: Which drawings take priority - architectural or engineer 19Dec 07, 2014 5:51 pm Builders designing for themselves are not required to employ qualified designers. This in theory means that builders can have clueless or a bunch of industry rejects working for them (because they are cheaper) I would be asking the name of person who designed your house and their qualifications. That will be interesting Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog 2 7734 Thanks very much! And would the landscaper/contractor generally involve the engineer or is that something the client would do? Thanks for your help 2 10005 Peter In NSW your Certifier will have a copy, and the Certifier works for you not the builder. They are your representative so just contact them and ask for a… 6 2752 |