Browse Forums Building Standards; Getting It Right! Re: New house frame issues 321Dec 17, 2015 8:59 am AS1684 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73555&p=1270476 Page 8 Some of the posts by TomCat and others like RedHotMike ( who use to run a frame and truss company I think ) and diagrams are worth having a look at. Stewie Re: New house frame issues 322Dec 17, 2015 9:28 am Thanks for that Stewie D. That's just grand. Now I can see that in Part 3.4.3 of the NCC under Timber framing it says: 3.4.3.0 Performance Requirement P2.1.1 is satisfied for a timber frame if it is designed and constructed in accordance with the following, as appropriate: (a) ***** (b) ***** (c) ***** (d) ***** (e) ***** (f) ***** (g) AS 1684.2. (h) AS 1684.4. So as 1684.4 includes 6.2.2.3 Stiffening of top plates, then the OP can take this information to the supervisor and request action. Re: New house frame issues 323Dec 17, 2015 3:11 pm Maybe. I had a talk a few months ago to a truss and frame place about costs per sq m as opposed to building the frames and a traditional roof myself for our upcoming build. While I was there I asked a couple of other questions regarding engineering the roofs etc. Basically they said that they feed the data into the software and it spits out all the sizes and specs. An engineer on call signs off on the framing plans after he has had a quick look at it. Most of the stuff they do for standard residential homes are single top plate with trusses over the studs below for tiled roofs. Metal roofs they can get away with a bit more regarding loading on the trusses and then the frames but depending on the total roof area load they sometimes call up a higher grade of timber for the top plate. Sometimes they have to go double top plate where there is more roof load over a girder truss or point load. It really comes down to the individual roof and how complicated the design is etc. Stewie Re: New house frame issues 324Dec 17, 2015 6:53 pm Stewie D AS1684 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73555&p=1270476 Page 8 Some of the posts by TomCat and others like RedHotMike ( who use to run a frame and truss company I think ) and diagrams are worth having a look at. Stewie Thanks for linking that thread Stewie. I followed it at the time and it was interesting to read through it again. I particularly like the long post with great information by RedHotMike who you will also notice is no fan of many building surveyors. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: New house frame issues 327Dec 18, 2015 12:07 am The roof truss of my house is actually on top of the stud (or fall within the limit of 1 inch), so this is not a problem. I try to get more clearer pics tmr. The one Im concerned with is the ground floor where the upper joist not sitting on top of the stud. However, there is a piece of long hardwood nailed to both end of the upper joists which connects them together. Will this make it sufficiently strong? I talked to the SS already and requested the design. He insisted the house built correctly and might give me the design of the stud wall from frame manufacturer. The thing is I don't to get the house delayed as long as it is not a big deal. M has 25 years structural guarantees though. So, I guess if it is not good enough, then M would have that confidence to make a promise. Anyway, Thanks guys. Following this thread helps me understand more about house building in Australia. New house frame issues 328Dec 18, 2015 10:36 am I think your priorities are wrong. You seem to be worried about delays. Who cares about guarantees and delays when it comes to safety. I don't want any piece of timber or plaster falling on my head. Re: New house frame issues 329Dec 18, 2015 9:51 pm Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ In the kitchen area, the upper floor joists are actually sitting on the iron beam, not on the stud wall. So I guess the design of my house is different, and therefore they use single top plate. only a few areas that the joists dont sit on the stud. SO I guess the load of upper floor + roof will be evenly spread out the whole house, the weight is not loaded all to the stud. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Does the piece of timber runs along the house (cover up all the floor joists) helps to bear the load, so double top plate might not needed. As I see other people's house does not have this piece of timber if they use double top plate one question. what is better between the engineered joist (smartjoist) and the timber-webbing joist (steel and timber web)? why different tradie use different joist? Thanks Re: New house frame issues 330Dec 19, 2015 6:05 am Quote: Does the piece of timber runs along the house (cover up all the floor joists) helps to bear the load, so double top plate might not needed. As I see other people's house does not have this piece of timber if they use double top plate Chuminh, in that last picture which way do the floor joists go - 90º to the side of the house or parallel? If it's the latter then they have simply made the last joist that you see from the outside instead of continual blocking. No need for a double top plate. Quote: one question. what is better between the engineered joist (smartjoist) and the timber-webbing joist (steel and timber web)? why different tradie use different joist? They might have different strength gradings between the two types of beam. If the engineers or the design of the home is restricted to a 240mm floor joist then a common beam like the smartjoist might be used. Where they need more strength over a certain part of the house but they are still restricted to a total joist depth of 240mm then the web joist may have been used. I have seen some builders who used the web kind use them in bathrooms so the plumbers can run their sewer pipes without hacking the joists as they so often do with solid timber joists ( or Hyspan, Hyjoists etc ). Stewie Re: New house frame issues 332Dec 19, 2015 8:45 am Quote: We have the steel web joists where we are now and they creak everywhere You might find that is not the web joists but because the builders didn't glue the flooring sheets down as well as nail it. That stops 99% of floor squeaks. If they used ones similar to this ... http://www.altrussco.com.au/PosiStrutsPage.php Stewie Re: New house frame issues 334Dec 20, 2015 6:28 pm Stewie D Quote: Does the piece of timber runs along the house (cover up all the floor joists) helps to bear the load, so double top plate might not needed. As I see other people's house does not have this piece of timber if they use double top plate Chuminh, in that last picture which way do the floor joists go - 90º to the side of the house or parallel? If it's the latter then they have simply made the last joist that you see from the outside instead of continual blocking. No need for a double top plate. Stewie The joists inside the house is 90 degree to the side joist of the house, but some of the joists fall on top of the stud, somes are not. So, I believe it is fine. the spacing of the joists calculated by the software, so I think it is good. Just complaining about the poor workmanship so far as they drill the wrong holes for plumbing and drill another one again. Plus, they nail the sheet bracing to the stud random. Some of the nails missed. I will raise this poor workmanship tmr to SS, and have him looked after the house more carefully. Here are the picture on the other side of the house. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ this is a close-up on the other side of the joist. Re: New house frame issues 335Dec 20, 2015 6:36 pm Stewie D Quote: one question. what is better between the engineered joist (smartjoist) and the timber-webbing joist (steel and timber web)? why different tradie use different joist? They might have different strength gradings between the two types of beam. If the engineers or the design of the home is restricted to a 240mm floor joist then a common beam like the smartjoist might be used. Where they need more strength over a certain part of the house but they are still restricted to a total joist depth of 240mm then the web joist may have been used. I have seen some builders who used the web kind use them in bathrooms so the plumbers can run their sewer pipes without hacking the joists as they so often do with solid timber joists ( or Hyspan, Hyjoists etc ). Stewie So, do you mean that Web joist is stronger than smartjoists? both joists are still 240mm high, right? which one is more expensive then? How do they run the central heating/cooling system through the web joist? as for smartjoist, they will drill the holes like they did with the plumbing. Will drilled holes weaken the strength of the joists to a certain extent? Re: New house frame issues 336Dec 20, 2015 9:07 pm Without looking at the specs or tech sheet from the manufacturers I couldn't tell you. A Google search would turn both of those up pretty easily. At the design stage the AC guys plus the designer would look at the flooring plan and run their ducting parallel to the joist until they could change direction somewhere where it wouldn't impact the floor joist strength by cutting a whacking great hole in it. Drilling holes in the centre, you are allowed up to a certain diameter depending on which type of joist you are looking at. Once again that would be mentioned on their tech sheet. Stewie Re: New house frame issues 337Dec 21, 2015 5:54 pm I just checked my frame today. Most of the stud wall frame used MGP 10, some use MGP 12. is that the reason they use single top plate as it is stronger than normal F5? Re: New house frame issues 339Dec 22, 2015 5:12 pm Yeah, so I believe that why they use single top plate. It should be alright I guess. This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 5346 Hi, We have a single story MacDonald Jones house, on a waffle pod slab with steel frame. Are we able to build a second story extension? Other info is we are 900mm from… 0 8443 Thanks for your reply. I will just wait and see I guess. Trying to get some more information from our builder. 9 30235 |